There needs to be more single player content

[rrayy]

No it makes perfect sense. If you have a time table to deliver a product (say Dragonflight) then you have a fixed deadline and you only have X amount of time/resources to do so. If you want to shift priority development to say more single player end-game content then you need to take away development from somewhere else OR get more time to do so without "sacrificing" other development areas (say PvP).

That timeline and budget is set by Blizzard. They can increase that anytime I want. Want to add more solo content? ADd more budget and resources for that. You don't have to sacrifice anything. Budgets are not set in stone and unchangeable.

Could Activision-Blizzard allocate more resources? Probably but what's the ROI for that kind of investment? Is the feature add going to all of a sudden increase WoW subscribership by 20%? 10%? 5%? Or just please a smaller portion of the playerbase?

You won't know that answer unless you actually try.

Take a look at Cataclysm expansion, a lot of resources were dedicated to "effectively" single player content in revamping Azeroth and changing questing throughout many zones. Yet the majority of the playerbase didn't really see it. They already had toons at near cap and push forwarded with the new zones to reach end-game group content.

A world revamp is not solo content. That is merely updating art assets and quests. That isn't actually adding anything, just changing and updating what is already there. Not remotely the same thing.

Maybe that was a failure of not focusing on end-game single player content instead of just single player content in general but I would argue that those in charge are skeptical of single player content since Cata.

But popular opinion could change that... See if you can start up a petition players saying they want end-game single player content and maybe Blizzard might listen once you past X million players.

See above. Updating and changing what is already in game is NOT adding solo content. Completely disingenuous on your part.

[Hobbidaggy]

Play any other MMO and you will pretty much see that both can exist alongside each other as different options of the same content. There's plenty out there that make it work without this doomsday outcrying for how more solo content would be the death of Group play.

It would exist like PVP does as a separate type of content for a separate type of player. Nobody points at PVP as a reason why group content suffers just because there are PVPers who choose not to do any group content.

Not even that. Blizzard have shown themselves in the Artifact campaigns or the BFA war fronts that if they deem it requires a Tank and DPS because you’re a Healer you will get that. Or you’re a Tank you can have an NPC as a Healer and DPS etc etc

So the systems could even easier be side by side. The outcry that it would be the death is ridiculous. It would be end of forced group play for those who don’t have the patience or for those who are sick of playing with people who are causing grief etc.

[DookuDookuTree]

"The game needs change" & "it is fine as it is" is both fact & opinion, neither side can say "you are wrong".

[ellieg]

And which of the gameplay in the world actually offers gearing progression with different difficulty levels?

Raids do that.

And how do you get the idea group players do not play world content?

The difference you do not understand or do not want to understand is that group players play all content, and solo players play no group content.



I think noone should be forced to play cross playstyle. Yet it is a fact that group players play all solo content as well. And solo players rarely play other group content than matchmade groups. Which means, they do not have access to gearing progression other than normal and heroic dungeons, where you get gear that is worse than world quest rewards.

If you actually understand what i talk about, come back to me.

Your first sentence proves my original point. It's not content that you are lacking. Its content that gives you gear that you want.

I am a group player and the only solo content I do is the solo content im forced to do. Like campaign stuff for soulbinds. So I am a group player that would do 0 solo if I could. I do not do all content. I don't care abt tmog or mount farming or pet battles or professions or world quests. If I could id log on, do m+, log off. Which is what I do once I get the required stuff out of the way.

So to sum it all up, as a solo player, you are upset because you chose to deny yourself group content in an mmo, and even tho that leaves the vast majority of content in the game (soloing old raids, dungeons, all the quests, world quests, rp, pet battles, etc) you are upset because none of that can get you higher than avg 255 ilvl.

[Lathspell]

Mythic+ dungeons are for premade groups only.

This is absolutely not true. I would assume a majority of m+ groups are pugs. I pug almost exclusively and have gotten KSM the past 2 seasons.

[ellieg]

Play any other MMO and you will pretty much see that both can exist alongside each other as different options of the same content. There's plenty out there that make it work without this doomsday outcrying for how more solo content would be the death of Group play.

It would exist like PVP does as a separate type of content for a separate type of player. Nobody points at PVP as a reason why group content suffers just because there are PVPers who choose not to do any group content.

Oh I have no problem with that. The point is there is far more solo content than group content. You have every single xpac besides the current one that can be completely solod. The main reason solo players are upset is not abt lack of content, its lack of gearing options when they choose to lock themselves out of group content

[Djaye]

Oh I have no problem with that. The point is there is far more solo content than group content. You have every single xpac besides the current one that can be completely solod. The main reason solo players are upset is not abt lack of content, its lack of gearing options when they choose to lock themselves out of group content

nail on head

people complain when they want gears that they dont want to put the time in to do.

they are used to trophies for doing nothing, they want that in their video games too.

[Triceron]

Oh I have no problem with that. The point is there is far more solo content than group content. You have every single xpac besides the current one that can be completely solod. The main reason solo players are upset is not abt lack of content, its lack of gearing options when they choose to lock themselves out of group content

Not always.

Any solo player who wants to merely enjoy questing and story gets locked out of story content once they hit max level. Blizzard could easily keep story out of major raids or merely treat it like side stories like they used to, not use it to cap major storylines. Or else, like other MMOs, make solo viable variations specifically for 'sight seeing'.

Consider that if you level an alt, half the story of the game is locked away from you because you can't solo raids while leveling in your journey. It is a problem even in retrospect to any new players who don't already know the lore and want to find out.

And that being said, you are still right about progression for solo players, but I don't think it has to be the same progression as group content. Like PVP has its own tiers, so could Solo play, through its own variation of content.

[ellieg]

Not always.

Any solo player who wants to merely enjoy questing and story gets locked out of story content once they hit max level. Blizzard could easily keep story out of major raids or merely treat it like side stories like they used to, not use it to cap major storylines. Or else, like other MMOs, make solo viable variations specifically for 'sight seeing'.

Consider that if you level an alt, half the story of the game is locked away from you because you can't solo raids while leveling in your journey. It is a problem even in retrospect to any new players who don't already know the lore and want to find out.

And that being said, you are still right about progression for solo players, but I don't think it has to be the same progression as group content. Like PVP has its own tiers, so could Solo play, through its own variation of content.

What's stopping u from going back to earlier zones to experience the story once u hit max level? And for current content, thats why lfr exists

[Triceron]

What's stopping u from going back to earlier zones to experience the story once u hit max level? And for current content, thats why lfr exists

You're only addressing being technically right and not taking any moment to consider the technicality is not enough.

Technically PVP is group based progression. Would you be satisfied if PVP was WoW's only group based end game content? Would you be satisfied if every time people ask for more group end game content, the facetious answer was 'Just go PVP'?

PVP, Group PVE and Solo PVE are all different types of gameplay with different players who have different needs. Each one of these types has some measure of content overlap with the other, but it doesn't make it meaningful content unless it is designed with the players needs in mind.

It's that simple. Arguing anything else is merely excusing the issue and scapegoating.

[ellieg]

You're only addressing being technically right and not taking any moment to consider the technicality is not enough.

Technically PVP is group based progression. Would you be satisfied if PVP was WoW's only group based end game content? Would you be satisfied if every time people ask for more group end game content, the facetious answer was 'Just go PVP'?

PVP, Group PVE and Solo PVE are all different types of gameplay with different players who have different needs. Each one of these types has some measure of content overlap with the other, but it doesn't make it meaningful content unless it is designed with the players needs in mind.

It's that simple. Arguing anything else is merely excusing the issue and scapegoating.

I'm not mad at anyone. Im simply dispelling the notion that there is more group content than single player content. Also arguing that when solo players talk abt not having any content, they are 9/10 times talking abt not having any content that rewards good gear.

And if pvp was the only group based content, and it had been that way for almost 18 years now, I wouldn't be mad. Id have already been playing another game instead of demanding a change that seems unlikely.

[Triceron]

I'm not mad at anyone. Im simply dispelling the notion that there is more group content than single player content. Also arguing that when solo players talk abt not having any content, they are 9/10 times talking abt not having any content that rewards good gear.

I didn't say you were mad at anyone, but your responses are ignoring that the issue is about solo progression content, not alternatives which already are in the game. I mean, what's the difference then to answering the same about more Group based content to 'You should PVP then'. It's effectively a non-answer, because neither of these address the core issues. It's "You think you do but you don't" all over again.

And if pvp was the only group based content, and it had been that way for almost 18 years now, I wouldn't be mad. Id have already been playing another game instead of demanding a change that seems unlikely.

I don't think it's any more unlikely than how people have been asking for better Flight systems in WoW and finally getting them in Dragonflight. Gated flight systems aren't the default 'right' answer just because it's been that way for the past X years.

Same can be said about bringing back WoW Classic. We have it despite all the reasons one may think it to be unlikely.

[Kokolums]

People would pick the easiest one to turbofarm, smash out all the cosmetics they want in a weekend and never touch it again.

boy they solved that ages ago with theme parks. think of mechagon, where rares pop once every 30 minutes, others an hour, and still others are on a random rotating daily basis. you couldnt just do "mecha-done" in a weekend. they know exactly how to stop turbofarming.

[Stormwolf64]

Basically, single player content needs to be removed, except leveling. Die the rest a group should be required.

Then it's best to burn the whole game as multiplayer is shit as the playerbase is shit.

[ellieg]

I didn't say you were mad at anyone, but your responses are ignoring that the issue is about solo progression content, not alternatives which already are in the game. I mean, what's the difference then to answering the same about more Group based content to 'You should PVP then'. It's effectively a non-answer, because neither of these address the core issues. It's "You think you do but you don't" all over again.



I don't think it's any more unlikely than how people have been asking for better Flight systems in WoW and finally getting them in Dragonflight. Gated flight systems aren't the default 'right' answer just because it's been that way for the past X years.

Same can be said about bringing back WoW Classic. We have it despite all the reasons one may think it to be unlikely.

So ppl should stop asking for more solo content and instead say " i want solo content that gives me the same level of gear as group content".

I'm not talking abt whats default right. Im talking abt what's likely.

[Triceron]

So ppl should stop asking for more solo content and instead say " i want solo content that gives me the same level of gear as group content".

I'm not talking abt whats default right. Im talking abt what's likely.

Let me ask you clearly - Would you ever have considered Dragonriding or WoW Classic as being likely?


We don't know what's likely or not though when considering all we're seeing is WoW's track record and how slow Blizzard is to pivot in response to fan feedback.

I understand that you're trying to take a sensible approach, but Blizzard is quite unpredictable when it comes to how they prioritize acting on fan feedback. To the audience, there is no difference between a feature being on the backburner and a feature that's being outright ignored, and your perspective merely adopts the 'outright ignored' observation as being the default one. I can't really agree with that considering Blizzard has added many unlikely requests to the game, just at their own pace. This includes things like playable Pandaren and Demon Hunters which were highly demanded around TBC, which only became playable many years later.

For some things, like Dance Studio, we can pretty much rule out as something not happening ever. But something like Cross Faction play or improvements to Flight or return of WoW Classic are all long-requested features that have now appeared. More solo content or solo progression parity is not all that far fetched in comparison to some of these requests.

[MoanaLisa]

Your first sentence proves my original point. It's not content that you are lacking. Its content that gives you gear that you want.

You say that like it's a bad thing. In the first place there often isn't a lot of content to do past a certain point. In the second, since the entire point of the game is to conquer enemies and progress your character (this is the important one) there really isn't a lot of content that helps to improve your character in any significant way. It doesn't have to even be gear but since that's the way the game is set up "gives you gear that you want" is no different than "progression is more interesting than being stuck in place for months." I would be fine with some other form of power progression that didn't impinge on delicate feelings about how some strangers might have gear.

[Accendor]

Then it's best to burn the whole game as multiplayer is shit as the playerbase is shit.

They really are not, it's just in puggable content. As soon as you force people to interact with other repeatedly, they will be much less shitty to each other.

With the big focus on easy, puggable content as well as on anonymity (name change, server transfer, level boost, destruction of server communities, phasing and sharding), it's clear people behave like trash. It's a self made problem.

[Dejiko]

The sad thing is that they already have it, it`s just heavily underutilized.
Imagine Torghast without player power necessarily tied to it.

You could have branching floors with rich vistas and changing biomes.
Sometimes you`d get a choice between a regular floor where you`d fight enemies, other times it could be a jumping puzzle.
And on occasion you`d get the chance to relive an old raid encounter, scaled to your group size, or for solo play.

It doesn`t just have to be drab and dull corridors of a tower, infuse it with creativity, have it drop mounts and pets and cosmetic transmog stuff.
I mean if you`re into fishing, why can`t you do that in Torghast? Fish up a really strong enemy, and it doesn`t have to be from a pool of water either.

Have it be class specific, turn into Ursoc as a guardian druid, or Ashamane as a feral druid.
Offer players cross class skills while in there, maybe you could conjure weapons that shoot spells at your enemies as a mage if you borrowed
the skill from a blood death knight.
Imagine a survival hunter with druid shapes etc.

If you make content that`s not just relevant to one expansion, and for one purpose, creativity really sets the limits for what you can craft.

[Triceron]

The sad thing is that they already have it, it`s just heavily underutilized.
Imagine Torghast without player power necessarily tied to it.

You could have branching floors with rich vistas and changing biomes.
Sometimes you`d get a choice between a regular floor where you`d fight enemies, other times it could be a jumping puzzle.
And on occasion you`d get the chance to relive an old raid encounter, scaled to your group size, or for solo play.

It doesn`t just have to be drab and dull corridors of a tower, infuse it with creativity, have it drop mounts and pets and cosmetic transmog stuff.
I mean if you`re into fishing, why can`t you do that in Torghast? Fish up a really strong enemy, and it doesn`t have to be from a pool of water either.

Have it be class specific, turn into Ursoc as a guardian druid, or Ashamane as a feral druid.
Offer players cross class skills while in there, maybe you could conjure weapons that shoot spells at your enemies as a mage if you borrowed
the skill from a blood death knight.
Imagine a survival hunter with druid shapes etc.

If you make content that`s not just relevant to one expansion, and for one purpose, creativity really sets the limits for what you can craft.

To be honest, I'd be completely down with that.

Roguelikes are fun, and shouldn't be played simply for a shiny reward at the end. They should be played for the sake of being fun. That point kind of gets missed when they start attaching power progression for the sake of turning it into an Endless Grind system.

Mage Tower is probably the better example I'd opt for. Content that levels the playing field and offer cosmetics as rewards. And if anything, attach some tie in content to Epic Profession crafts (cosmetic or otherwise) just to shake things up. Stuff like Legendary Crafted items designed for Solo-progression would be great, using solo content instead of Raids as the repeatable content to use to farm said mats.