There needs to be more single player content

[Relapses]

Simple. Add as many difficulty levels to world content as mythic+ has. Give gear from world content level 1 to be able to master world content level 2.

[snip]

Gear should not be useful for a few premade group players only.

"Simple. Just remove the entire rewards system that has worked in the game for two fucking decades and make the game something it has never been nor has it intended to be."

Yeah, gonna pass on that. No thanks.

[Relapses]

No, actually it would expand the working reward system (gearing progression) to all players. Not just a few premade group players. And gearing progression like that works quite well in games with different world difficulties.

Your statement was that gear has no use for world players. You are right. But rather than asking to remove gear for them i ask to add gearing progression for them.

WoW isn't a single player game nor is it intended to be a single player game. The reason rewards for single player content is capped at a certain level is because that is not how the game is intended to be played. If you want a single player MMO, fuck off in FFXIV. Don't ask to make WoW -- a game that has worked with a focus on group content since its inception -- to become a FFXIV clone because you simply cannot accept the idea that it's okay for different games to offer different experiences.

[RobertMugabe]

The problem isn't that there isn't single player content in WoW. The problem is that this content simply sucks in this game. There has been virtually no innovation in questing and all that since like MoP and the quests have actually gotten far worse over the expansions, especially SL is just really bad. The original quest experience is super linear where you have to sit through some "scripted events" all the time just to get 1-3 quests at a time which are all exactly the same type of quests. At least in previous expansions you had more of a choice and could take many quests at a time. SL's questing is dogshit.

And besides questing, there is some decent single player content, but almost none of it has really much replay value and is often too easy or not rewarding. Torghast was really good though IMO. It had a lot of room for improvement, which they didn't capitalize on unfortunately.

[jeezusisacasual]

The problem isn't that there isn't single player content in WoW. The problem is that this content simply sucks in this game. There has been virtually no innovation in questing and all that since like MoP and the quests have actually gotten far worse over the expansions, especially SL is just really bad. The original quest experience is super linear where you have to sit through some "scripted events" all the time just to get 1-3 quests at a time which are all exactly the same type of quests. At least in previous expansions you had more of a choice and could take many quests at a time. SL's questing is dogshit.

And besides questing, there is some decent single player content, but almost none of it has really much replay value and is often too easy or not rewarding. Torghast was really good though IMO. It had a lot of room for improvement, which they didn't capitalize on unfortunately.

They will likely never do something like Torghast ever again and frankly i would not blame them. They took the idea from visions and made it worse in every single facet which is why it failed, it could have been clear it once a week at whatever powerlevel to get a world quest item powered up but again they do not want people to feel " forced" to do something without realizing that its the only way to get people to do the content they make.

[RobertMugabe]

They will likely never do something like Torghast ever again and frankly i would not blame them. They took the idea from visions and made it worse in every single facet which is why it failed, it could have been clear it once a week at whatever powerlevel to get a world quest item powered up but again they do not want people to feel " forced" to do something without realizing that its the only way to get people to do the content they make.

They should've just made Torghast it's own endgame content without being a necessity for raiding/m+/arena (except as a bonus), then people wouldn't have hated it. Those that really like it and wanted to see it expanded could keep playing and those that didn't enjoy wouldn't be forced to do it unless they were tryharding. It could've provided it's own unique gear and rewards which can be decent for other content, but not the best, but they'd be the best gear for the open world and Torghast itself, just like how it kinda works with the gear you get from group content.

Especially in the rewards department is where Blizzard always fails at single player content. These things never have their own class of gear and progression, but it's mostly just one time rewards you get and stuff that is needed for other content, but has no direct or extra benefit to the content you just had to do (like the legendary system).

[jeezusisacasual]

They should've just made Torghast it's own endgame content without being a necessity for raiding/m+/arena (except as a bonus), then people wouldn't have hated it. Those that really like it and wanted to see it expanded could keep playing and those that didn't enjoy wouldn't be forced to do it unless they were tryharding. It could've provided it's own unique gear and rewards which can be decent for other content, but not the best, but they'd be the best gear for the open world and Torghast itself, just like how it kinda works with the gear you get from group content.

Especially in the rewards department is where Blizzard always fails at single player content. These things never have their own class of gear and progression, but it's mostly just one time rewards you get and stuff that is needed for other content, but has no direct or extra benefit to the content you just had to do (like the legendary system).

I agree but i assume they have to justify its budget and if engagement is low they will be told to just scrap it which is how i think we get into the very same situation we are in now. Not everything should have a player power tied to it but if it does not then people fail to even give it a try it kind of reminds me of the idea that players will min/max the fun right out of a game if given the chance which is why perhaps we should be able to see under the hood as much as we can.

I wonder what the mage tower engage metrics are on a concurrent basis.

[Echo of Soul]

Do you really need the best gear in the game if you're only ever going to use it to complete dailies?

I fail to see how useful Mythic gear would be for a player who only ever does dailies. That doesn't sound like a developer issue. That's a player entitlement issue.

Thanks for proving my point xD, I never said anything about getting mythic gear, I said worthwhile gear but I suppose people like you only deal in absolutes.

[Tentim]

Thanks for proving my point xD, I never said anything about getting mythic gear, I said worthwhile gear but I suppose people like you only deal in absolutes.

Kinda? We had a patch this expansion where heroic raid gear given out by dailies and world mobs was considered unusable junk by this type of player...

At some point you call a spade a spade.

[Relapses]

Thanks for proving my point xD, I never said anything about getting mythic gear, I said worthwhile gear but I suppose people like you only deal in absolutes.

In ZM, you can already get gear from dailies that's equivalent to normal raid gear and then you can also do additional dailies to make your character more powerful while doing dailies. If that's what you're asking for, it's already in the game.

[Echo of Soul]

In ZM, you can already get gear from dailies that's equivalent to normal raid gear and then you can also do additional dailies to make your character more powerful while doing dailies. If that's what you're asking for, it's already in the game.

Except that it's not long term and it's not worthwhile. Normal mode raid gear is complete garbage, you have no chance in open world PvP wearing that.

[Relapses]

Except that it's not long term and it's not worthwhile. Normal mode raid gear is complete garbage, you have no chance in open world PvP wearing that.

So you don't want normal mode gear because it's not powerful enough... but you also don't want Mythic gear? Uh. Okay. You do realize you can turn WM off, right? lol

[Xath]

WOw is at a point where more solo content is going to do nothing to grouped content.

Except take dev time away from it which means once again go play a single player game.

- - - Updated - - -

Except that it's not long term and it's not worthwhile. Normal mode raid gear is complete garbage, you have no chance in open world PvP wearing that.

Nobody plays world pvp lol

- - - Updated - - -

Simple. Add as many difficulty levels to world content as mythic+ has. Give gear from world content level 1 to be able to master world content level 2.



Gear should not be useful for a few premade group players only.

Go play Diablo. You do not need mythic ilvl gear if you aren't doing that content. Within about 30 minutes of hitting max the world no longer poses any danger you just want to make it even more boring for yourself.

[Ashana Darkmoon]

Except that it's not long term and it's not worthwhile. Normal mode raid gear is complete garbage, you have no chance in open world PvP wearing that.

Isn't basic honor gear higher ilvl in pvp than normal raid gear anyway? Basic honor gear you can get from solo-queuing for a few days?

[Echo of Soul]

Isn't basic honor gear higher ilvl in pvp than normal raid gear anyway? Basic honor gear you can get from solo-queuing for a few days?

That's way too fast. We need something long term and worthwhile. Let's say a heroic piece of gear per week. Something to work towards on our own time that'll allow us to carry our own in world PvP

[Lolites]

Except that it's not long term and it's not worthwhile. Normal mode raid gear is complete garbage, you have no chance in open world PvP wearing that.

1. you had to upgrade cypher system which took a while so it was long term
2. so you claim you dont want best gear but normal gear is not good enough? you want gear good for pvp? here is groundbreaking idea - how about you do some pvp then?

Relapses was right, this seems completely about your entitlement to get gear without work...

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The percentage of players that plays mainly solo in World of Warcraft and many other MMORPGs are around 60%.

Id LOVE to have source of that, if you have one besides your ass...
ofc there are solo players (and im not against solo content, i loved visions and vould love something like that back in) but 60% seems completely out of touch with reality...

[Flaks]

The percentage of players that plays mainly solo in World of Warcraft and many other MMORPGs are around 60%. WoW always had solo player content. It simply should start to reward the gameplay properly and to give proper gearing progression rather than catering to the devs bias to only make raids and mythic+ rewarding.

As a comparison: The percantage of players that completed the last tiers raid is around 13%.



Which is nothing but a stupid dogmatic decision, not based on everydays player reality, but simply on a bias. Stupidity is a moral deficit. In this case the moral deficit is about elitism and gate keeping rewarding gameplay for a few and locking out millions from gearing progression.



I do not ask WoW to become a clone of any other game. I ask the developers to overcome their biased stupidity and to design the game for their players. Which leave in millions everytime after expac release when they realize they didn't get adressed in endgame.. again.

- - - Updated - - -



You would need gear if you had gameplay to progress. Your idea is that players outside instanced gameplay should have no good gear as they do not need it. My argument actually is the real bugfix to make world players need gear to progress further. You know, as like in raids and mythic+. Just not for premade groups, but for a vast majority of the players that play casually and do not commit to guilds or other premade groups. Millions play matchmade dungeons. Millions play solo. Address them properly.

Your post will always fall on deaf ears only because these forums have over the past nearly 2 decades become echo chambers for players who just do organized content. And since this is the population that screams the loudest they're constantly heard.

Players like you and I just straight up quit whenever we hit that early wall of progression into heroic raid level gear that would allow us to enjoy things like world pvp, bgs (without getting decimated for days on end before getting geared enough) and maybe even dabble in that mythic+ and raid level content.

This game stopped being the WORLD of warcraft a long time ago. They've attempted to reignite that spark a few times and I'd personally say that BfA did that aspect right. But again the organized raiders/players weren't happy with what was otherwise a slam-dunk expansion for world content and so we ended up with the atrocity that is SL.

[Thes]

I agree but i assume they have to justify its budget and if engagement is low they will be told to just scrap it which is how i think we get into the very same situation we are in now. Not everything should have a player power tied to it but if it does not then people fail to even give it a try it kind of reminds me of the idea that players will min/max the fun right out of a game if given the chance which is why perhaps we should be able to see under the hood as much as we can.

I wonder what the mage tower engage metrics are on a concurrent basis.

I'd rather have them scrap all the things that they don't think will have enough engagement and just do more of the same thing they've been doing all these years instead of pushing some crap down our throats that they themselves didn't think could stand on its own.

[Lolites]

Richard Bartle ( a legend in MMORPG design, and professor for it ) and Jeremy Gaffney (a former wow dev, later developed Wildstar ) quoting him.

Quote Gaffney:

https://www.warlegend.net/wildstar-i...ve-producer/2/



Richard E. Bartle wrote about this in his book "MMORPGs inside out" and his other book "Desiging virtual worlds". He split players into explorers, achievers and other playertypes and stated, that the vast majority of players are explorers which mainly play solo.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/...the-inside-out

Richard Bartle is professor for game design at the university of Essex.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Bartle

im sorry, source for statistics data is RAW NUMBERS, actual DATA, not "someone said so"
btw the someone was executive for wildstar right? and we know how that game went...
as for the profesors book, thats nice, but... what was HIS source? poll with couple hundreds or thousands players? nice enough for educatedf guess, doesnt make it reality, especialy since i doubt he had access to some real data from companies...
and this might be shock for you, but something being in book doesnt make it reality...
but ill be generous and say for games in general its true, im in generous mood

you claim its true about wow so ill ask again, do you have some ACTUAL PROOF that more than half of wow players play solo? bcs if its anything like your 13% finishing raid (completely ignoring LFR which is surely WAY above 13% on itself)...

bcs SURELY blizzard knows what their players do ingame, and if 60+% only played solo they would definitely focus on such content...
thats actualy how we got LFR, raids were done by tiny portion of playerbase (at the time it was roughly 10% so your 13% after LFR is laughable guess), so they intorduced LFR which by their own admision drasticaly increased the number of raiders...

so what you think is more likely:
a. blizzard WILLINGLY AND KNOWINGLY (bcs they have all the data, you have guesswork at best) ignores majority of their playerbase
b. YOUR OPINION is not shared by more than minority of playerbase

[chiddie]

With Shadowlands, we have seen a lot of single-player stuff, though.

That gives zero meaningful rewards apart from - in part - Zereth Mortis.

[crusadernero]

Retail is a solo game. Can do everything alone. PUG when needed. Endless meatgrind of people/grps to join and never meet again. No need to worry, content will be cleared.

Now - want to do difficult content? Do mage tower or mythic raids. For that, you will need a solid set grp.


Classic is funny though. Its been now what it was back then(more now though) - easy content for most people. If you want to raid, all you need to do is commit hours to it. And it works. People want it. Maybe, just maybe, its not about difficulty or more solo content in a MMORPG. Maybe its about something else.