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  1. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by Rageonit View Post
    I mean, we've all heard your mantra. Still, this guy invested 100+ hours into the Devoker and if you pay attention to his videos, you should know that he not only enjoys it, but finds it both strong and desirable for several reasons. As a side note, funny how you show up with another generic comment how the Evoker is a trainwreck, yet managed to ignore all the videos with evidence proving otherwise. Here's another one with an experienced player praising the Mastery (which you called bad on many occasions), and still no valuable input from you other than "it feels bad to do less damage as the fight goes on". Okay.

    - - - Updated - - -

    MadSkillz does m+ tier list for all healers - and Evoker is S tier. Why?
    + best burst healing in the game
    + Empower abilities feel as powerful as some classes 2-3 min CDs, while being on ~30s CDs
    + being able to respond to AoE damage quicker than other healers
    + good DPS rotation that benefits healing

    - fear of range being bad on spread fights

    Important notes: tested all the healers on keys in the ~10 range; I'd guess that's the reason why bad defensive CDs weren't mendioned. Still, in healer spec you surely can work around it easier than in DPS spec.
    10's... Yeah that list is completely useless.
    And no a healer can't work around it easier, because there is not a healer to help you with DR cooldowns and when the damage kills you its a wipe.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  2. #242
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    10's... Yeah that list is completely useless.
    And no a healer can't work around it easier, because there is not a healer to help you with DR cooldowns and when the damage kills you its a wipe.
    It's very far from useless (it is only if you look at the tier list without listening to the actual argumentation). At this point, a single change to Obsidian Scales to make it on par with something like Astral Shift is enough to make it so much more viable for high level keys. There are 15+ keys being timed by other healers/streamers as we speak, so it's far from impossible - and I fully predict Blizzard to buff Evoker's defensives before DF goes live, because it's a big talking point now.

    Contrary to all the shit-talking of some clueless posters here, healing and damage are already there, so Evoker is NOT as far from being in a great state as some did suggest. And that's the main take of the video (where MadSkillz says clearly this is a temporary list and it can shift a lot as soon as next build).

  3. #243
    Quote Originally Posted by Rageonit View Post
    I mean, we've all heard your mantra. Still, this guy invested 100+ hours into the Devoker and if you pay attention to his videos, you should know that he not only enjoys it, but finds it both strong and desirable for several reasons. As a side note, funny how you show up with another generic comment how the Evoker is a trainwreck, yet managed to ignore all the videos with evidence proving otherwise. Here's another one with an experienced player praising the Mastery (which you called bad on many occasions), and still no valuable input from you other than "it feels bad to do less damage as the fight goes on". Okay.

    - - - Updated - - -

    MadSkillz does m+ tier list for all healers - and Prevoker is S tier. Why?
    + best burst healing in the game
    + Empower abilities feel as powerful as some classes 2-3 min CDs, while being on ~30s CDs
    + being able to respond to AoE damage quicker than other healers
    + good DPS rotation that benefits healing

    - fear of range being bad on spread fights

    Important notes: tested all the healers on keys in the ~10 range; I'd guess that's the reason why bad defensive CDs weren't mendioned. Still, in healer spec you surely can work around it easier than in DPS spec.
    I mean you accuse me of picking my sources, but you don't? I call bs on someone saying Prevoker has the best burst healing in the game, it's a ridiculous statement. The same goes to being able to respond to AoE damage quicker than other healers. And then only one negative? When there are several? Yep yep.

    I love how delusional some players are in regards to Evoker. Sure that feedback of a very small group of people is more valuable than everything in the official feedback thread or from the other testers on YouTube & Co. that are truly sceptical and critical and don't live in their Evoker echo chamber where everything is just so comfy because [new class].

    I'm just waiting for launch numbers when Evokers are nowhere to be seen in higher content because they're outright bad and have 0 survivability (which is crucial in harder content).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Rageonit View Post
    Contrary to all the shit-talking of some clueless posters here, healing and damage are already there, so Evoker is NOT as far from being in a great state as some did suggest. And that's the main take of the video (where MadSkillz says clearly this is a temporary list and it can shift a lot as soon as next build).
    No new class was ever so far from being in a great state at launch than Evoker. But yes, keep going. Clueless.
    Last edited by Nyel; 2022-10-13 at 11:41 AM.
    MAGA - Make Alliance Great Again

  4. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    I mean you accuse me of picking my sources, but you don't?
    False - and the proof is so obvious I'm beginning to think you're delusional. I don't cherry pick anything; I've linked videos saying Evoker's range might be a problem; I've linked the video commenting on lack of defenisve CDs.

    I link sources showing both good and bad; while you are a doomsayer parroting any critique you hear, without linking any actual data and becoming eerily silent as soon as it turns out you are wrong. Your input in this thread is meme-level; "EVOKER BAd11!!". Since the very beginning of this thread, you didn't provide any meaningful data to support it, and every time you come back, it's with some vague "Evoker is trash tier" comment. Even the video you've linked in the other thread, you had to copy from my post (the video which, coincidentally, praises Evoker's support abilities; but you forgot to mention that). Good work, dude.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    I love how delusional some players are in regards to Evoker. Sure that feedback of a very small group of people is more valuable than everything in the official feedback thread or from the other testers on YouTube & Co. that are truly sceptical and critical and don't live in their Evoker echo chamber where everything is just so comfy because [new class].
    Oh, and MadSkillz is btw a content creator that makes healer tests and videos for YEARS now, who was NOT thrilled with Evoker at all (he didn't like the fact it has shorter range on healing spells), but changed his mind in actual m+ and raid tests. But yeah, we should rather trust random people on the forums (like you) who have nothing going for them.
    Last edited by Rageonit; 2022-10-13 at 11:45 AM.

  5. #245
    Quote Originally Posted by Rageonit View Post
    False - and the proof is so obvious I'm beginning to think you're delusional. I don't cherry pick anything; I've linked videos saying Evoker's range might be a problem; I've linked the video commenting on lack of defenisve CDs.

    I link sources showing both good and bad; while you are a doomsayer parroting any critique you hear, without linking any actual data and becoming eerily silent as soon as it turns out you are wrong. Your input in this thread is meme-level; "EVOKER BAd11!!". Since the very beginning of this thread, you didn't provide any meaningful data to support it, and every time you come back, it's with some vague "Evoker is trash tier" comment. Even the video you've linked in the other thread, you had to copy from my post (the video which, coincidentally, praises Evoker's support abilities; but you forgot to mention that). Good work, dude.
    I'm becoming silent because you're terrible to argue with and it's dragging me down. This will be my latest post towards you, because you're delusional - and your bold sentence above is the proof: I copied your post where you linked the video? Yeah, that's why I posted it 10 hours before you did.





    But sure it's me who's delusional. Leave me alone (I for sure will).
    MAGA - Make Alliance Great Again

  6. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    I'm becoming silent because you're terrible to argue with and it's dragging me down. This will be my latest post towards you, because you're delusional - and your bold sentence above is the proof: I copied your post where you linked the video? Yeah, that's why I posted it 10 hours before you did.
    Fair enough, my bad. Any comment on its utility, praised in the same video? On its damage and mastery, praised in the same video? Or is the only valid point the critique towards lack of defensives? Are those the kind of questions that drag you down...?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    But sure it's me who's delusional. Leave me alone (I for sure will).
    BTW, it's also rather impudent to ask for it, since I'm just linking various videous in this thread - and it's you responding to them (when it fits your narrative, of course).

  7. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by Rageonit View Post
    Fair enough, my bad. Any comment on its utility, praised in the same video? On its damage and mastery, praised in the same video? Or is the only valid point the critique towards lack of defensives? Are those the kind of questions that drag you down...?
    Dead DPS doesn't do damage.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  8. #248
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    Dead DPS doesn't do damage.
    This is, too, meme-level, so I will answer in kind: Don't die.

  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by Rageonit View Post
    This is, too, meme-level, so I will answer in kind: Don't die.
    But that is why the bad defensives of Evokers matters, and no amount of dps or utility would make up for that, because if there is unavoidable damage they have no choice in whether or not they die.

    Sure it might get fixed, but might also not.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  10. #250
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    But that is why the bad defensives of Evokers matters, and no amount of dps or utility would make up for that, because if there is unavoidable damage they have no choice in whether or not they die.

    Sure it might get fixed, but might also not.
    Nobody has ever disputed that. Well, maybe someone did, but certainly not in this thread.

  11. #251
    Another Evoker video based on Mythic tests. This is a mythic raider that invested 3 months of the beta into playing the Evoker, so, along with Preheat, one of the most (atm) experienced Evoker players.
    Main takes:
    - class is in a lot better spot now than in the beginning of beta;
    - atm performs well even without min-maxing, both in AoE and single target, and class seems in a good spot overall;
    - Devokers rotation, after the changes, feels satisfying and well fleshed out;
    - a lot of the criticism unjustified;
    - community tends to repeat the (justified) criticism towards Evoker those experienced players have, but often misses out on all the upsides;
    - repeats some of the criticism we already know (like lack of proper defensive CDs).

    Yea, has to be someone lurking in this thread.

    Also, Prevoker topping healing meters on Mythic Eranog.

  12. #252
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rageonit View Post
    Another Evoker video based on Mythic tests. This is a mythic raider that invested 3 months of the beta into playing the Evoker, so, along with Preheat, one of the most (atm) experienced Evoker players.
    Main takes:
    - class is in a lot better spot now than in the beginning of beta;
    - atm performs well even without min-maxing, both in AoE and single target, and class seems in a good spot overall;
    - Devokers rotation, after the changes, feels satisfying and well fleshed out;
    - a lot of the criticism unjustified;
    - community tends to repeat the (justified) criticism towards Evoker those experienced players have, but often misses out on all the upsides;
    - repeats some of the criticism we already know (like lack of proper defensive CDs).

    Yea, has to be someone lurking in this thread.

    Also, Prevoker topping healing meters on Mythic Eranog.
    Good to see that I was correct about range. Hopefully they get more defensive utility and passives.

    Blessing of the Red from HotS would be a nice cooldown.

  13. #253
    Quote Originally Posted by Rageonit View Post
    Another Evoker video based on Mythic tests. This is a mythic raider that invested 3 months of the beta into playing the Evoker, so, along with Preheat, one of the most (atm) experienced Evoker players.
    Main takes:
    - class is in a lot better spot now than in the beginning of beta;
    - atm performs well even without min-maxing, both in AoE and single target, and class seems in a good spot overall;
    - Devokers rotation, after the changes, feels satisfying and well fleshed out;
    - a lot of the criticism unjustified;
    - community tends to repeat the (justified) criticism towards Evoker those experienced players have, but often misses out on all the upsides;
    - repeats some of the criticism we already know (like lack of proper defensive CDs).

    Yea, has to be someone lurking in this thread.

    Also, Prevoker topping healing meters on Mythic Eranog.
    I'm super confused as to what your position is, Rageonit? Are you worried that Evokers are going to be too popular, and so want them nerfed? Or are you just so enthusiastic about Evokers that you don't see that the people giving critique on preservation evokers are just trying to fix glaring issues and make them better?

    So first, to address the video you linked:

    You linked a video of exactly TWO pulls on a heavily stacked mythic boss with a lot of problems. You effectively are giving a strawman argument. I have over four hours of raid coverage that I watched, and make no mistake, evokers have some serious problems that need to be addressed.

    Issues Pull #1:

    1) Your evoker doesn't consistently top meters until BOTH the mistweaver monk and the resto shaman are dead. That's kind of important. That means that roughly half of the healers are suddenly gone and you're suddenly competing with the two holy paladin.

    2) Raid is missing Resto druids, Holy Priest, and Disc priests. Disc priests should be nerfed, but Blizzard loves Disc in general, so it's anybody's guess if that will happen or not. Either way, my mention of these three specs is relevant because all three of them are currently blowing evokers out of the water in terms of raw HPS. Now, I will make a bit of a disclaimer -- they're beating other specs too, but that includes evoker on a stacked fight. The real question is if they'll nerf all three, or buff the others.

    3) Coverage of Pull #1 ends due to the evoker EXPLODING while doing mechanics starting at full health. Yes, I know it's mythic. But you can see other raiders in similar positions also doing mechanics. It's very possible that there was a bug involved, or a hidden graphic ('cause beta testing), so I will make this point with a pinch of salt. But you can see that no one else dies in such a spectacular fashion.

    Issues Pull #2:

    1) Healer composition is 2 evokers, 2 paladin, and one shaman. Healer composition is even more selective, and one of the slots is another evoker. The Resto Shaman is a different shaman than the first pull featured and has lower HPS, so likely a less effective player.

    2) Lead evoker is competing very closely with the two paladin. This is okay only if you take it out of context. Holy Paladin are going to be extremely sought after for their greater raid utility. When you put it into context, this means that it will always be better to take another holy paladin than even one evoker because you'll be granted access to more raid utility (DR aura, BoP, Sacrifice, Brez). None of the Evoker "utility" spells are particularly impactful enough that you would want two. You could even just avoid having an evoker all together. ( Don't believe me? Go watch Max's video on raid slots.)

    3) At 7:03 seconds into the video, during Pull #2, she sits and drinks a Dreamless Mana potion. Now don't get me wrong -- this is the right play for her mana levels. But that also means that she's not able to practice any sort of mana conservation in order to be remotely competitive. This would be 100% okay, but the boss is at 36.2%, and you still have additional periods where the boss hides behind fire ropes and becomes unattackable. This gear is SCALED. Which means that if the other players stepped up their gameplay in order for her to not go OOM, she's not going to be at the top any more. Hell, the moment things go to shit, she's scraping the bottom her mana barrel, and they still have to go through an intermission phase and almost 17% health. And that is WITH the Dreamless potion earlier. The moment her mana goes bye bye, she's not going to sit at the top any more.


    General video issues:

    1) Erganog is a SUPER stacked fight. Everyone is going to be tightly clustered so that you don't drop pools all over the room, and you're going to hover closer to the boss so that the tanks can pick up the adds. This kind of fight plays right into evoker strengths, so of course it looks good. As soon as you swap to a boss with even a little bit of spread (Broodkeeper) or even more spread (Dathea), evoker becomes almost completely worthless. Now, don't get me wrong. I don't expect evoker to play at the top of the leaderboards all the time. But there is a huge problem if even the best players in the world can go from "competitive" on one type of boss to "does half of the healing all the other healers have" on a different type of boss. That kind of difference means that even us peons are going to feel it. It's going to go from "it's not optimal, but you can bring your healer anyways" to "your class is such a handicap that you have to play a different role this fight." And that SUCKS.

    2) Limited to TWO (2) pulls from the lead preservation evoker's point of view on youtube. This video is necessarily going to be biased because the footage has been cherry picked by the player to show them at the top of the healing meter. This isn't unedited footage of all of the Erganog testing they did. It's not even contiguous pulls -- they swapped out healer players in between. You can't even argue that they swapped out characters for better ones; the second shaman had worse HPS than the first one, the mistweaver on the first pull was actually beating the lead evoker until they died, and the second evoker in the second pull was actively doing worse than most of the healers. It makes you wonder; how much BETTER would the player's healing would be if they weren't playing a preservation evoker and playing a different class instead?



    At this point, I don't even think you intend to be an evoker. You keep stifling genuine feed back, and you try to bury actual problems as "fear-mongering." I think you intend to main a different spec/class and don't want the competition. But guess what? Those of us who DO want to play an evoker are going to keep "beating that dead horse" until Blizzard resurrects it. We're going to keep screaming to the heavens until Blizzard hears us. They didn't change the preservation range from 25 yards to 30 yards until they had 40 pages of solid feedback on the official forums of healers screaming at them. Until they had reddit pages, and MMO-champion pages full of players screaming about it. Until they had twitter posts and youtube videos about it. Until they had wowhead articles about how bad it was.

    So no, I'm not going to stop. Not until the survivability is fixed. Not until the range is fixed. Not until the spread healing issues are fixed. Not until the "suicide by healing your teammates" is fixed. Not until the balance is fixed. I WILL NOT STOP BECAUSE I WANT TO PLAY THIS CLASS.

  14. #254
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrysis View Post
    I'm super confused as to what your position is, Rageonit? Are you worried that Evokers are going to be too popular, and so want them nerfed? Or are you just so enthusiastic about Evokers that you don't see that the people giving critique on preservation evokers are just trying to fix glaring issues and make them better?

    So first, to address the video you linked:

    You linked a video of exactly TWO pulls on a heavily stacked mythic boss with a lot of problems. You effectively are giving a strawman argument.
    ???
    I've linked plenty of videos of different fights and m+, both from a Devoker and Prevoker perspective, so strawman would be to comment on this single one while ignoring all the rest. I've said again and again: if you have data that Evoker is doing bad, post it. That's all you need to do. You don't have to comment on the videos I link and you don't have to argue with the main takes from those videos - those are not mine takes, but takes of the actual Evoker players. If you think they are wrong, the proper place to argue would be the youtube comment section I think. Tell them they are wrong if that's what you believe. I choose to put my faith in people doing actual content, and if those people feel Evoker is NOT in a bad spot (not best by any means, cause that's subject to change any beta build), they do so based on proper tests and gameplay experience.

    Evoker is doing bad? Okay, just show us. I mean, I don't have exclusive rights to post videos in this thread, so you really are free to do so (incidentally, I also do it, I've linked plenty of Evoker critique - like the video about lack of defensives or wowhead's article on spread fights being problematic).

  15. #255
    Quote Originally Posted by Rageonit View Post
    ???
    I've linked plenty of videos of different fights and m+, both from a Devoker and Prevoker perspective, so strawman would be to comment on this single one while ignoring all the rest. I've said again and again: if you have data that Evoker is doing bad, post it. That's all you need to do. You don't have to comment on the videos I link and you don't have to argue with the main takes from those videos - those are not mine takes, but takes of the actual Evoker players. If you think they are wrong, the proper place to argue would be the youtube comment section I think. Tell them they are wrong if that's what you believe. I choose to put my faith in people doing actual content, and if those people feel Evoker is NOT in a bad spot (not best by any means, cause that's subject to change any beta build), they do so based on proper tests and gameplay experience.

    Evoker is doing bad? Okay, just show us. I mean, I don't have exclusive rights to post videos in this thread, so you really are free to do so (incidentally, I also do it, I've linked plenty of Evoker critique - like the video about lack of defensives or wowhead's article on spread fights being problematic).
    Dude, you can't make up your damn mind.

    First you tell everyone that their doomsaying when they complain about visible problems that content creators -- that you claim to put your faith in -- talk about, and are backed up by TONS of feedback by other beta testers on the official forums. Then you come here and say that you've linked articles supporting and talking about said weaknesses. Which is it? Are Evokers fine as-is, or do they need fixes?

  16. #256
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrysis View Post
    Dude, you can't make up your damn mind.

    First you tell everyone that their doomsaying when they complain about visible problems that content creators -- that you claim to put your faith in -- talk about, and are backed up by TONS of feedback by other beta testers on the official forums. Then you come here and say that you've linked articles supporting and talking about said weaknesses. Which is it? Are Evokers fine as-is, or do they need fixes?
    No, that's wrong - I was one the first to argue that Prevoker's 25 yd range will be problematic on certain types of fights (on page 3 of this thread), so to say that I'm accusing everyone of doomsaying is far from truth. I guess the problem with proper assessment of my posts is that people find it rather difficult to have an unbiased opinion about certain things; the way they see it, something is either good or bad, no middle ground. I also believe that presenting feedback in this manner is the worst thing you can do. The important things get muddled down by all the unjustified shittalking, because usually, it goes like this: Evoker is bad, all healers are better, it has no niche, it can't do better in any situation, range will kill it, it has bad utility, no mandatory tool to get raid spots, bad defenisves, movement isn't even that good, empower abilities are bad, no single target healing, Mastery needs rework... It's literally repeating everything bad you hear about the class, both from people who know what they're talking about and from people who have played the Evoker for 10 mins in beta (while never playing any other healer) and ignoring everything positive. Even if there is justified criticism hidden somewhere between the parroting, you never know which is it.
    Last edited by Rageonit; 2022-10-18 at 08:42 AM.

  17. #257
    Quote Originally Posted by Rageonit View Post
    No, that's wrong - I was one the first to argue that Prevoker's 25 yd range will be problematic on certain types of fights (on page 3 of this thread), so to say that I'm accusing everyone of doomsaying is far from truth. I guess the problem with proper assessment of my posts is that people find it rather difficult to have an unbiased opinion about certain things; the way they see it, something is either good or bad, no middle ground. I also believe that presenting feedback in this manner is the worst thing you can do. The important things get muddled down by all the unjustified shittalking, because usually, it goes like this: Evoker is bad, all healers are better, it has no niche, it can't do better in any situation, range will kill it, it has bad utility, no mandatory tool to get raid spots, bad defenisves, movement isn't even that good, empower abilities are bad, no single target healing, Mastery needs rework... It's literally repeating everything bad you hear about the class, both from people who know what they're talking about and from people who have played the Evoker for 10 mins in beta (while never playing any other healer) and ignoring everything positive. Even if there is justified criticism hidden somewhere between the parroting, you never know which is it.

    So here's my problem: you're shutting people down during an important feedback phase while making unverified assumptions on the various experiences and experience levels of the players posting on this forum. And those assumptions paint everyone here with an unfavorable brush.

    Now, I can understand the dangers of an echo chamber, but it is so much worse when Blizzard can't hear anything at all because various people are being shut out of the discussion by someone imposing an invisible and arbitrary standard (you). This isn't your job. Blizzard has qualified people to sift through the comments. As a matter of fact, you're doing a disservice to everyone, including developers, every time you try and shut people down. You don't change classes based on just a couple of people talking; you change classes based on a LOT of people talking and a lot of number crunching. By shutting people down, you're hurting Blizzard's ability to process feedback.

    Even worse, by your own paragraph, you, yourself, are guilty of what you accuse everyone else of. What a lot of people are arguing has way more nuance than what you mention before (even your previous arguments against them). Just as an example, mind you, when you say that people argue that "movement isn't even that good," you're dismissing a whole world of subtly and context. On its own, evoker movement abilities are quite good. But then you have to look at it in context of the WHOLE class, and that is when problems start showing up. Blizzard itself has handicapped the class on range based on the idea that they're super mobile healers. That's okay in theory. But if you have other classes that have even more mobility and no handicap, then people are going to start talking. And they should, because evokers do not exist in a vacuum; they exist with other healers. They have to compete with other healers for raid and M+ spots.

    If a person is an experienced healer and raider, they do not have to be on the beta to understand the significantly less coverage of the combat space and the limited range will make healing more challenging. And then they're going to ask what they are going to get in return. And that's just with range. That's not covering all the other issues. And they are issues. If world-first healers and dps tell me that they're much squishier than other classes, not only can I believe them with their experience, but I can also see it when they stream it. I can see them go through the dungeon multiple times on different classes, with the same player, I can count and see how and when they die to the dungeons. I can see their HPS. I can see how hard or easy it is to keep players up through the fights. This gives me a way better metric than even something I could do myself.

    Remember, Blizzard only extended the range to 30 yards from a measly 25 yards after a LOT of people screaming about it. There will be plenty of time for developer praise AFTER the problems are fixed and Dragonflight has launched. You're seeing a lot of criticisms because players don't want to give the developers the false impression that everything is fine when it isn't.

  18. #258
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrysis View Post
    So here's my problem: you're shutting people down during an important feedback phase
    I'm not shutting anyone down (or is shutting down asking question they can't or don't want to answer?) and I'm not interested in discussing in this vein. When I find interesting Evoker feedback, I post it here (both good and bad, so you can't accuse me of being biased); noone's obliged to answer or comment those posts. If you have other resources or feedback, you're free to post it here. If I believe someone is spreading doom & gloom by literally calling Evoker trash tier class, I will point it out, because I believe giving a class bad (and often unjustified) rap even before release is killing excitement for it, and confirmation bias is sadly a real thing. Yes, there are certain areas where Evoker would greatly benefit from buffs or changes (which class wouldn't?); no, it's not trash tier, it has it strenghts and it's not in a bad spot.

  19. #259
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrysis View Post
    If a person is an experienced healer and raider, they do not have to be on the beta to understand the significantly less coverage of the combat space and the limited range will make healing more challenging.
    The problem is that you're putting that person up against an experienced healer and raider who is actually IN the Beta and testing it against actual Dragonflight raid content. It's weird to me as to why I would take the opinion of someone not raiding in beta and basing their entire (generally negative) opinion on assumptions OVER the people actually testing the content and coming back with completely different (and generally positive) conclusions.

  20. #260
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrysis View Post
    If a person is an experienced healer and raider, they do not have to be on the beta to understand the significantly less coverage of the combat space and the limited range will make healing more challenging.
    How well that works can be seen in this very thread, where people argue on Devoker's Mastery being bad, because you shouldn't do less damage as the fight goes on. Lo and behold, as soon as it turned out that at the moment Devoker's Mastery makes it VERY desirable for any adds fight, those people went MIA. Theoretical knowledge is valuable, but in cases like this, it should serve as a basis for practical tests. Luckily, the outcry of the less informed people that Devokers Mastery is bad (saw plenty of those on official forums) didn't push Blizzard to change it, because as it stands, it's a powerful argument to always have Devokers in add-heavy fights.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    But that is why the bad defensives of Evokers matters, and no amount of dps or utility would make up for that, because if there is unavoidable damage they have no choice in whether or not they die.
    Sure it might get fixed, but might also not.
    Here you go, buffs to Evoker's defensives:
    - Obsidian Scales CD 1.5 min baseline;
    - talent increases charges to 2;
    - damage reduction (all, not only magic) upped to 30%;
    - Renewing Blaze heals over 8 sec (down from 14);
    - 75% passive armor bonus.
    Last edited by Rageonit; 2022-10-19 at 06:25 AM.

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