Looking to the Future: FFXIV v7.x and Beyond

[Cthulhu 2020]

Given how Yoshi-P has been hurrying to discard the long running subplots as quickly as possible, I expect the Thirteenth storyline to be wrapped up within the 6.X patches. 7.0 will probably be whatever new stuff Yoshi-P has been desperate to get to, be it the New World, Meracydia, or another world. Given how Yoshi lied about us getting a brand new cast in 6.X, I fully expect the Scions to continue to be the main focus.

Yoshi P never makes promises to us, which makes the accusation that he lied all the more hollow. He says things that he wants to do, but he's also quite careful to let people know to temper their expectations even with the things that he says, as not all of them will come to pass. And I've found the vast majority of FF players to understand this. Nothing is a promise. It's all tentative.

But Val's toxicity continues to shine through, so no surprise.

Perhaps you forgot, but at one point they even threatened to stop doing Live Letters because the fan base got their panties in a twist over some minor feature not making it in that was in a live letter. They took the time to make it PERFECTLY CLEAR that live letters are a glimpse into the dev team's current ideas, and that not everything will make it into the game.

- - - Updated - - -

The Godzilla threshold thing with Endwalker was and still is kind of a concern for me, as well. Having traveled to the end of the universe to grapple with a veritable goddess of oblivion and dealing with the reality of multiple vanquished civilizations kind of feels like a difficult act to follow with a more terrestrial or low-stakes adventure. But I personally kind of felt reinvested with the exploration of the Thirteenth in 6.x, and I'm kind of hoping that's a jumping-off point for the direction of 7.0. Just the sense that there is more out there, and that includes antagonists we didn't know about previously.

I thought about this too, but I realize where a lot of FF's good writing comes not from its constantly higher stakes, but the strong characters within the story and the moment to moment interactions that makes it feel very human. I think that, despite Zodiark and Hydaelyn both gone, and us having traveled to the edge of the universe, they're still going to knock the story out of the park somehow. Whether the 13th is part of the next expansion or merely just 6.1-6.5 content, it'll all still be wonderful.

Of course some people will be disappointed if there's not a whole expansion about the 13th, because their EXPECTATIONS are already that the next expansion is about the 13th. And if it isn't about the 13th, they'll make nebulous statements about how the expansion was supposed to be about the 13th, but got a rush job, etc. Basically unfounded rumors. Or ones that are only half true.

Like the claims that Endwalker was "supposed" to be two expansions. When in reality, in early development the team was deciding between making it two expansions or keeping it one (since that was the original plan) but ultimately decided to keep it as one expansion.

[MsSideEye]

I realize where a lot of FF's good writing comes not from its constantly higher stakes, but the strong characters within the story and the moment to moment interactions that makes it feel very human. I think that, despite Zodiark and Hydaelyn both gone, and us having traveled to the edge of the universe, they're still going to knock the story out of the park somehow. Whether the 13th is part of the next expansion or merely just 6.1-6.5 content, it'll all still be wonderful.

I mean, I think Blizzard, Marvel, and other series have shown us by this point you can't constantly give people the 'World is Ending! Existence is fading!' stories without feeling just over exhausted with it. It's why smaller stories or pulling back allows people to refresh themselves, recover, and let them enjoy things on a smaller scope without having to fight a Thanos/Jailer/Meteon level threat every two seconds.

Honestly, I'm hoping to explore things a bit more within the world now that so much has changed, what with the Garlean Empire now rebuilding/being on more decent terms, the fact that Zodiark/Hydaelyn's aether is no longer effecting the world, and that the Beast tribes are now all on better terms with the Spoken. And that's all stuff we can learn/get without it being connected with the ongoing plot of the 13th that we've been getting.

I'm quite looking forward to what FF14 has in store for us :3

[Miriamel105]

I played the game since 2013 and that guys lied so many times in all these years, no matter what you say.

[Cthulhu 2020]

I played the game since 2013 and that guys lied so many times in all these years, no matter what you say.

Yoshi P has always used language that conveys an attitude of possibility, not promise, if that's who you're talking about. When he talks about a future feature, he always emphasizes that the team hopes to implement it, or hopes to implement it in X way, but never acts as if it's some kind of promise.

I realize most game players tend to take devs talking about a future feature as a promise of it coming, but that's how WoW went full locked door and zero transparency, players getting angry and calling them liars and broken promises for not doing things exactly as they said they would. Things don't always work out the way you plan in game development, that's an inevitability.

The developers don't really talk about anything else other than the game though, so if the above is not it, no clue what "lies" you're talking about.

[Miriamel105]

Yoshi P has always used language that conveys an attitude of possibility, not promise, if that's who you're talking about. When he talks about a future feature, he always emphasizes that the team hopes to implement it, or hopes to implement it in X way, but never acts as if it's some kind of promise.

I realize most game players tend to take devs talking about a future feature as a promise of it coming, but that's how WoW went full locked door and zero transparency, players getting angry and calling them liars and broken promises for not doing things exactly as they said they would. Things don't always work out the way you plan in game development, that's an inevitability.

The developers don't really talk about anything else other than the game though, so if the above is not it, no clue what "lies" you're talking about.

You do get, that I got all his speeches over the years every single time, live, right?

It's pointless trying to explain me, that he said completely different things than he actualls said.

I know what he did. So please stop trying to manipulate the past so it fits in your 'argumentation'.

That's just more lying.

[Swnem]

I avoided posting here until i advanced more in the story, but what i expected seems to be happening.

Basically, no, i don't expect the next expansion to be on the 13th because they always try to hit us from left field and the story of the 13th doesn't seem large enough to span more than patch content. It honestly feels like that zone with Gaius in Shadowbringers with the weapon bosses.

So, i expect this to be over before the next xpac and for something unexpected to happen.

[Grinning Serpent]

With Endwalker and the 6.x patches seemingly wrapping up the Scions story arc that's been a staple of FFXIV since ARR, what do you think the new story arc for FFXIV will be like? I'm personally unsure if the 6.x content will end our exploration of the Thirteenth, but I'm kind of hoping that the Thirteenth gets the same overall treatment that the First got in Shadowbringers.

I honestly didn't care that much for Endwalker and I got the point of just outright skipping cutscenes so I could unlock Aglaia in the patches. I know it wasn't feasible for a whole array of business reasons, but I feel like Endwalker should have completely ended the FF14 story. It was the perfect old school Final Fantasy send-off, right up to teenagers (since the twins would be the protagonists if there were no player character) going off to fight a depressed/nihilistic God. WoL should have died from their injuries (they were basically doing the Goku thing with "it's too much for your body to handle!") after killing Zenos. Or, at bare minimum, we should have undergone a complete loss of powers - no more extra-special Dynamis/Aether gimmicks, we are now roughly in line with the other Scions and other "powerful but still just a dude" characters.

True, there's regions of the world we never explored, but why does it have to be WoL or the Scions that goes and explores them? Why not run an FFXIV-2 where we play fresh, average joes in the "new" world that the WoL and Scions have wrought? The obvious reason is, because that would be a logistical and technical nightmare to run in an MMO.

I think FFXIV has killed Arthas, for lack of a better analogy. WoW's core plot began to meander once they were out of leftover Warcraft 3 plot threads, and it felt like it became transparently clear that they were just pulling things out of their ass to justify continuing to make story content for the same player characters because the business and technology demanded it. In a way, I think it's even worse for FFXIV because the WoL is at the point where it will be incredibly difficult for them to come up with reasons that WoL will be significantly challenged by whatever the new monsters are - we just killed God and someone pretty much equally powerful as we are in back to back fights, used the power of Dynamis to basically destroy our body in the process, but we're all better some weeks or months later? No lasting harm whatsoever? How do you top that? How do you threaten Superman without coming up with Green Rocks But Different Than the Last Kind!, or "haha Superman I'm holding Lois Lane hostage!" crap? I feel like WoL will become less and less compelling of a character as time goes on because of this absurd power discrepancy, much like how Superman is generally less interesting than many of the other, less powerful DC heroes.

Shadowbringers kept me playing because I genuinely enjoyed the narrative, but Endwalker has be bored to tears and sitting in the Blue Mage Patch waiting room. That, or I'll see what gameplay changes arrive with 7.0 and determine whether or not it's even worth reinstalling for.

[Ghost of Cow]

I think FFXIV has killed Arthas, for lack of a better analogy. WoW's core plot began to meander once they were out of leftover Warcraft 3 plot threads, and it felt like it became transparently clear that they were just pulling things out of their ass to justify continuing to make story content for the same player characters because the business and technology demanded it. In a way, I think it's even worse for FFXIV because the WoL is at the point where it will be incredibly difficult for them to come up with reasons that WoL will be significantly challenged by whatever the new monsters are - we just killed God and someone pretty much equally powerful as we are in back to back fights, used the power of Dynamis to basically destroy our body in the process, but we're all better some weeks or months later? No lasting harm whatsoever? How do you top that? How do you threaten Superman without coming up with Green Rocks But Different Than the Last Kind!, or "haha Superman I'm holding Lois Lane hostage!" crap? I feel like WoL will become less and less compelling of a character as time goes on because of this absurd power discrepancy, much like how Superman is generally less interesting than many of the other, less powerful DC heroes.

Yep, this is a danger for MMOs in the long term.

As you said, WoW has the same issue. An MMO demands that content release on a regular schedule, in measured amounts, ad infinitum. Whether or not there's a good story to tell, whether or not the previous story ended (or ended well), whether or not it makes sense for the characters, whether or not the writers even want to continue. It simply must go on because that's business.

[Grinning Serpent]

Yep, this is a danger for MMOs in the long term.

As you said, WoW has the same issue. An MMO demands that content release on a regular schedule, in measured amounts, ad infinitum. Whether or not there's a good story to tell, whether or not the previous story ended (or ended well), whether or not it makes sense for the characters, whether or not the writers even want to continue. It simply must go on because that's business.

XIV does benefit from having a single writing team, at least. It ensures that there is a consistent, coherent feel to the narrative. Warcraft as an IP went to complete shit when they started handing out the license to multiple different writers with wildly different writing styles and themes (this began starting with WotLK, but because that expansion was largely operating off of established, unfinished Warcraft 2 and 3 plot threads it didn't really start to directly impact the core gameplay until afterwards), so at least Square-Enix will be avoiding that issue with XIV (at least so long as they don't farm it out for extra income, or the current writing staff move on to new projects.)

[Val the Moofia Boss]

XIV does benefit from having a single writing team, at least. It ensures that there is a consistent, coherent feel to the narrative. Warcraft as an IP went to complete shit when they started handing out the license to multiple different writers with wildly different writing styles and themes (this began starting with WotLK, but because that expansion was largely operating off of established, unfinished Warcraft 2 and 3 plot threads it didn't really start to directly impact the core gameplay until afterwards), so at least Square-Enix will be avoiding that issue with XIV (at least so long as they don't farm it out for extra income, or the current writing staff move on to new projects.)

The HW writer moved on to FF16 during Stormblood and the feel and direction of the narrative completely changed when Ishikawa came on board. And then there was the Endwalker fiasco which seems to be the result of Yoshi-P's meddling where he threw out everything that Ishikawa had set up in ShB. FF14's story is now just as bad as WoW's, the only difference being that FF14's is still more digestible due to the cutscene heavy presentation.

[Grinning Serpent]

The HW writer moved on to FF16 during Stormblood and the feel and direction of the narrative completely changed when Ishikawa came on board. And then there was the Endwalker fiasco which seems to be the result of Yoshi-P's meddling where he threw out everything that Ishikawa had set up in ShB. FF14's story is now just as bad as WoW's, the only difference being that FF14's is still more digestible due to the cutscene heavy presentation.

FF14's story was great, but only in the context of "it's a JRPG and a Final Fantasy game," and no one plays those games for gripping, intricate narratives. They're anime power fantasies with plots that are only a couple steps removed from being excuses to fuel the action. I don't think HW was an exception to this, because you go from "rarr dragons bad kill!" to "Ysayle that heretic that happily and gladly tortured innocent people to death got talked down to by 1000+ year old dragon that decided he liked banging an elf chick more than he liked banging his sisters and now she's a good person now and also all these dudes fighting will stop what they're doing and do what she tells them to." And then she has a mostly pointless Redemption Means Sacrifice death scene and the 14ish year old Alphinaud bemoans the death of his first beloved waifu.

We could do this with ARR, too. I don't think you really need me to explain how fucking *anime* that story is, though - you can just go watch literally 14 minutes of Batou From Ghost in the Shell vomiting exposition at the player, instead.

FF14's story has *never* been "good", except by JRPG standards. In which case it was good and it *still is* good. I did not find EW very good from a "compare this to every fantasy novel, movie, and game I've ever played" standpoint, but I had a fucking blast taking it as an homage to classic Final Fantasy games (which it very clearly is.) My biggest issue stem from the necessities of running an MMORPG business getting in the way of proper narrative design (6.0 should have ended EW and 6.1+ should have been FFXIV-2 or something.)

[Yarathir]

The HW writer moved on to FF16 during Stormblood and the feel and direction of the narrative completely changed when Ishikawa came on board. And then there was the Endwalker fiasco which seems to be the result of Yoshi-P's meddling where he threw out everything that Ishikawa had set up in ShB. FF14's story is now just as bad as WoW's, the only difference being that FF14's is still more digestible due to the cutscene heavy presentation.

An absolutely ludicrous assertion. It would need to shit the bed at least fifty-thousand more times before it even approaches that.

[Grinning Serpent]

An absolutely ludicrous assertion. It would need to shit the bed at least fifty-thousand more times before it even approaches that.

It would be pretty difficult to come up with something as awful as Knaak's writing, that's for sure. Rhonin and all his other terrible characters suddenly made a lot more sense when he wrote the novels for the setting that gave us fucking Kenders.

[Granyala]

The Godzilla threshold thing with Endwalker was and still is kind of a concern for me, as well. Having traveled to the end of the universe to grapple with a veritable goddess of oblivion and dealing with the reality of multiple vanquished civilizations kind of feels like a difficult act to follow with a more terrestrial or low-stakes adventure.

But I personally kind of felt reinvested with the exploration of the Thirteenth in 6.x, and I'm kind of hoping that's a jumping-off point for the direction of 7.0. Just the sense that there is more out there, and that includes antagonists we didn't know about previously.

This is the usual conundrum of MMO storytelling, where you actually defeat one big bad after another.

Do you follow one potential world-ender with yet another or do you step out of the "permanent existential crisis" mode before people get numb to it anyway.
Don't think it is possible to please everyone here. Some will consider the more local/low stakes adventure boring, others will cheer the stress-relief.

Personally, I like to do smaller things now and then. Focus on exploring new lands/worlds and not constantly be the crisis manager.
Also, I would like my character to become more. More than just a tool/weapon that is brought out when needed and ditched afterwards. Endbringer made it pretty painfully obvious that my Miqo'te has no one. She has no family, no love interest, no actual life to get back to, when all the scions immediately jumped back into their old roles, Ifalna felt ... lost.... useless and empty.

[Mojo03]

I just hope they speed up literally everything in the game by 25%

[Granyala]

used the power of Dynamis to basically destroy our body in the process, but we're all better some weeks or months later? No lasting harm whatsoever?

That's what made Shadowbringers so emotional for me. Ifalna, for all intents and purposes, was dying. We absorbed the Light Wardens power and overburdened our soul to the point that it started to fracture.
Seeing the cheerful Feo-Ul freak out completely when she noticed it actually made my cry because I know it was serious. Also, they changed the victory animation in the dungeons from "Yaay loot- tails up!" to an expression of total exhaustion and "I'm glad that one's over, not sure how long I can keep this up".

I still think there should be more lingering consequences and, speaking in role play terms: I'm dead sure there are.
I don't want to imagine the kind of nightmares our characters have or the grief that will catch up once we slow down and get into a quiet environment.

[Aucald]

This is the usual conundrum of MMO storytelling, where you actually defeat one big bad after another.

Do you follow one potential world-ender with yet another or do you step out of the "permanent existential crisis" mode before people get numb to it anyway.
Don't think it is possible to please everyone here. Some will consider the more local/low stakes adventure boring, others will cheer the stress-relief.

Personally, I like to do smaller things now and then. Focus on exploring new lands/worlds and not constantly be the crisis manager.
Also, I would like my character to become more. More than just a tool/weapon that is brought out when needed and ditched afterwards. Endbringer made it pretty painfully obvious that my Miqo'te has no one. She has no family, no love interest, no actual life to get back to, when all the scions immediately jumped back into their old roles, Ifalna felt ... lost.... useless and empty.

It is interesting how people take the story differently, and how differently it impacts them. For my character in terms of soft RP, the Scions are kind of like a found family - and even though the group kind of dissolved with everybody setting out for themselves on their own pursuits, the bonds created over ARR through to EW remain intact. I also agree with the idea of having something of a cooldown expansion that's more essentially homey and focused on exploration as opposed to universe-altering or multidimensional crises. I still do have a strong interest in exploring the Thirteenth with its focus on the Void and FF14's take on demons and what have you, but I've sort of changed my mind as to whether that will actually be the theme of the next expansion after all.

[Pannonian]

For me personally, Endwalker felt a bit like binge watching a tv series on a weekend. Ater you're finished you feel kinda empty and don't want to start anything new.

But this is always a temporary feeling. They started very slow with the story anew and last patch was a bit more action, which heped me getting interested in the new plot threads.

I don't see it as a big problem to now fight "weaker" enemis. Did that in WoW for a decade and was never bothered by it (e.g. Killing Deathwing, then battling a normal orc?)

[Granyala]

For my character in terms of soft RP, the Scions are kind of like a found family - and even though the group kind of dissolved with everybody setting out for themselves on their own pursuits, the bonds created over ARR through to EW remain intact.

Ifalna views them as close friends yes but, frankly put, aside from going back to her books studying white magic, kitty doesn't really know what to do with herself until called upon.

Weaker enemies: It's like ordinary street thugs trying to challenge the Batman. They can keep him busy but they are never really any threat. There are still people in need of assistance and problems to be solved all over the world. Not every problem needs to bring our WoL to the limit of his/her abilities in order to be meaningful.

[Katchii]

Ifalna views them as close friends yes but, frankly put, aside from going back to her books studying white magic, kitty doesn't really know what to do with herself until called upon.

Weaker enemies: It's like ordinary street thugs trying to challenge the Batman. They can keep him busy but they are never really any threat. There are still people in need of assistance and problems to be solved all over the world. Not every problem needs to bring our WoL to the limit of his/her abilities in order to be meaningful.

This^

Our characters aren't immortal, we could die to something mundane. While we have the power and skill to take on higher power tier enemies, that doesn't mean a run of the mill villain couldn't keep us on our toes.