Looking to the Future: FFXIV v7.x and Beyond

[tikcol]

I love ff14, it's been my main game for over a year. My main gripe with it are the graphics, not so much the graphics but the textures themselves so I'm happy that's being touched upon in 7.0

[The Offbeat]

Lastly, and you may call me misguided for believing this, but I truly do believe there'll be some sort of Garlemald restoration initiative or another before the expansion ends. I would be shocked and appalled if not. The fact that Gaius, Nero, Cid and Maxima have yet to play any major role just screams that to me. That plus the fact that they were, as of 6.0's conclusion, willing to offer Garlean gear to players, makes me believe that that is all tied together. Some sort of activity to restore Garlemald and the foremost Garlean characters in the story should be involved and the rewards Garlean-themed glam, housing items and mounts

Should they fail to cash in on this potential, I'm going to consider that a massive failure on their part.

I don't think we'll see it this expansion. But I do hope it's coming in the next one.

[zealo]

A "Garlemald Restoration" doesn't feel particularly likely for being in EW yet with where that place is at in the story as of now. They've haven't yet had any sort of development as to the political future of that place even in an interim sense, let alone bringing in Eorzean artisans to make shit en masse.

The empire is just completely gone as a polity, and they've yet to replace it with anything even locally in Garlemald.

[Yarathir]

I don't think we'll see it this expansion. But I do hope it's coming in the next one.

That is perhaps my only fear. There's just 6.4 and 6.5 left, and it does sound like a big thing, and we haven't heard anything about it yet. But thematically it fits Endwalker the most. Plus, like I said before, Gaius, Cid, Nero and Maxima have barely played any role in Endwalker despite how pivotal the Garlean situation was to the story as a whole.

But you're probably right, there's a good chance we won't see it in Endwalker and I'll have to yield to Graeham that they didn't really jump on the opportunity. At that point, I can't really insist it will ever happen, even if I do believe it will.

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I love ff14, it's been my main game for over a year. My main gripe with it are the graphics, not so much the graphics but the textures themselves so I'm happy that's being touched upon in 7.0

I really wish we'd get an updated look at how the graphical updates will change the way the game looks in a practical way. Go to a few choice zones and show us everything they overhauled working in tandem.

[Ghost of Cow]

That is perhaps my only fear. There's just 6.4 and 6.5 left, and it does sound like a big thing, and we haven't heard anything about it yet. But thematically it fits Endwalker the most. Plus, like I said before, Gaius, Cid, Nero and Maxima have barely played any role in Endwalker despite how pivotal the Garlean situation was to the story as a whole.

But you're probably right, there's a good chance we won't see it in Endwalker and I'll have to yield to Graeham that they didn't really jump on the opportunity. At that point, I can't really insist it will ever happen, even if I do believe it will.

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I really wish we'd get an updated look at how the graphical updates will change the way the game looks in a practical way. Go to a few choice zones and show us everything they overhauled working in tandem.

I would just like to see older gear textures updated a bit.

There are a lot of older items that would otherwise look nice but are just so obviously ancient that you can't wear them with other, newer items because the difference is just that jarring.

[Yarathir]

I would just like to see older gear textures updated a bit.

There are a lot of older items that would otherwise look nice but are just so obviously ancient that you can't wear them with other, newer items because the difference is just that jarring.

I think that's one of the things they explicitly mentioned would happen?

Texture upscaling as well as better materials (actual metallics and all that)

The Virtu gear probably serve as a good preview. Not quite on the same level, but a small indication of it. Like a halfway point? A bare minimum? Because I believe the materials thing will be a global update. Not so much just a minor update to older models as it is to the entire engine in allowing it to render more vivid and true to life materials. To everything, ARR to EW.

[Ghost of Cow]

Yeah, the Virtu set is nice, I grabbed that version for my Dragoon right away. It's a nice update all around.

XIV is weird about this sometimes, every so often something makes it into a model or cutscene that seems so out of place considering how well things look overall. Like the weird recording device in the last alliance raid quest, or the sword in the level 87(?) cutscene. For some reason seeing those things in an otherwise beautiful cutscene just pulls me right out of it, and I wonder how in the world that made it live.

[Auxis]

A "Garlemald Restoration" doesn't feel particularly likely for being in EW yet with where that place is at in the story as of now. They've haven't yet had any sort of development as to the political future of that place even in an interim sense, let alone bringing in Eorzean artisans to make shit en masse.

The empire is just completely gone as a polity, and they've yet to replace it with anything even locally in Garlemald.

Isnt there still a colony of Garleans where G'raha's tribe are/were from or were they wiped out at some point?

[zealo]

Isnt there still a colony of Garleans where G'raha's tribe are/were from or were they wiped out at some point?

There's still the odd stray legion still around operating independently of one another, but there's definitely no empire at this point with central authority radiating out of the province we have in the game now called Garlemald.

[Xilurm]

Patch 6.4 trailer. I wonder if Golbez ends up being dealt with here, if this is the finale for the Thirteenth/Void story, and if 6.5 is literally a new beginning that will lead to the next expansion.

[Grinning Serpent]

That would follow suit with their general pattern of using the last patch to setup the expansion.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Dang. They're ending the Void storyline and we never got questing zones to explore multiple different layers of the Void. It was just one 15 minute long corridor dungeon and a trial. Such wasted potential.

Interesting that they chose to release the patch on the same day as the new GW2 episode that is introducing a new zone. I think I'll play that one first. Not that it matters since both FF14 and GW2 patches are so content light, I'll beat both of them on the same day.

[Grinning Serpent]

Dang. They're ending the Void storyline and we never got questing zones to explore multiple different layers of the Void. It was just one 15 minute long corridor dungeon and a trial. Such wasted potential.

"Wasted potential" is like the fucking summary of FFXIV. Don't get me wrong, what's there is quite good. But it could be *SO MUCH* more if they just had the interest or freedom to chase after it. I don't think I've ever played a game that "wasted potential" fits better.

It'd be pretty cool to see what FFXIV would be like if it didn't have to force things to be suitable for convincing people to pay the monthly fee and plonk down money on knick-knacks. And subsidize the rest of the garbage corporation that they're keeping afloat, sometimes seemingly by themselves.

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But that's where the funny part comes in. People want them to innovate, yet then they take one expansion to offer Island Sanctuaries and Criterion Dungeons instead of a new Bozja and people start screaming that there is no Bozja equivalent so the expansion sucks. While my opinions on criterion dungeons are double-sided, I think Island Sanctuaries did and continue to do what they were made for. There is frankly a demographic that does enjoy them, so they hit their necessary mark. With criterion dungeons, I mean... it's hard? Criterions feel like they are an added mode to variants. Basically think of WoW's LFR existing to justify the work Blizzard puts into raids. Variants exist to justify criterion, and while variants did what they needed to, I feel like YoshiP made a mistake in listening to players who stated that they just wanted a challenge for challenge's sake when the reality is that they want a challenge that gives them shinies because they want more shinies to show off.

XIV is an interesting game, different from WoW, in that while players still need a carrot to chase, purely cosmetic rewards are often considered perfectly acceptable for challenging content. While I think criterion could and *should* be that thing that bridges the gap to make gearing alt classes easier, in addition to relaxing tomestone caps earlier (+150 per week starting on week 5, another +150 per week starting on week 9), if there's enough carrots to chase it won't be *necessary.* Criterion was DOA not because people didn't like the content, but because once you'd cleared it there was little to no reason to ever do it again. That in itself isn't a terrible thing, but the problem is that if the content is "one and done", then it means you will have an extremely hard time filling a PF group for it, which really does make the content "dead."

People complain about the lack of Bozja because Bozja was that slow grind content that kept people playing during the inevitable lull in the back half of a patch. Personally, though, I still have problems with that because Bozja is walled off. It's all well and good to see your friends online, but if you can't chat with them because they're in a duty, are they *really* "online"?

Island Sanctuary is just... I don't have the right words to express how fucking idiotic that whole thing has gone over. It could have been something really amazing, and *should* have been EW's gatherer/crafter content in line with Ishgard (giving an entire block of content to gatherers and crafters was honestly a really great idea.) It *could* have been really cool, like Animal Crossing or Stardew in yer XIV. Instead, it's like store brand WoD garrisons without half the things that made garrisons functional (such as numerous daily quests that made you go back out into Draenor to Do Various Things and the player choice of what buildings to have and when to upgrade them, as well as chasing after earning new followers or ships through a wide variety of different content types.)

[Ghost of Cow]

Island Sanctuary is just... I don't have the right words to express how fucking idiotic that whole thing has gone over. It could have been something really amazing, and *should* have been EW's gatherer/crafter content in line with Ishgard (giving an entire block of content to gatherers and crafters was honestly a really great idea.) It *could* have been really cool, like Animal Crossing or Stardew in yer XIV. Instead, it's like store brand WoD garrisons without half the things that made garrisons functional (such as numerous daily quests that made you go back out into Draenor to Do Various Things and the player choice of what buildings to have and when to upgrade them, as well as chasing after earning new followers or ships through a wide variety of different content types.)

I think XIV content struggles with some of the same challenges that GW2 content does, in that they seem terrified of the perception of something being "required" and so nothing is linked to character progression.

Which is nice in some ways - I think most(?) people don't want full on Azerite grinds or whatever - but at the same time a lot of people actually do enjoy that character progression and it is a driving force that gets them into content. MMO content is rarely super fun all on it's own, so it's nice to have meaningful goals and such that go alongside it.

[Grinning Serpent]

I never played WoD while it was live, I've only ever played it while leveling via Chrome Time or what would become Chromie Time. But I think the garrison is really well designed, although you can tell it was the first iteration of a lot of concepts that would later be refined with class halls, war campaign, etc. Followers are their own separate, simplified progression path. You send them on missions and they level up and frequently bring back useful things (including rare missions that might bring back pets or cosmetic things.) Then they hit level cap and have their own simplified version of a gear grind so they can tackle the toughest missions. You gain followers by doing quest chains, clearing raid encounters before the NPC is killed during the encounter, as rewards for reputation grinds, etc. Some followers can be assigned to tasks in the garrison, improving the efficiency of those aspects of the garrison. Others can accompany you as a bodyguard when you're out and about, if you have the right building in your garrison to support it. Upgrading your garrison is a mix of achievement progress and currency grinding. Most buildings will give you daily or weekly quests that send you back out into Draenor to do things, or to do a specific dungeon or raid. It's not perfect, and I can see how all the players being buttoned away into their own little garrisons instead of cities was a problem, but I really like the basic foundation and ideas there.

I think a lot of those ideas could have been applied to Island Sanctuaries. Make gathering and crafting central to progression for it. Bring me oak logs and steel ingots! Now cedar and molybdenum! I need a few of this item, you have a chance of obtaining them from doing FATEs in any Heavensward zone or at the end of a floor block in any deep dungeon. We need a few of this thing this week, you can obtain them from any Eden raid! Hell, you could add in optional progression and tie to synced clears of old extremes or savages. There's a lot of ways you could tie in Island Sanctuary to the rest of the game, and in a way that is a form of "horizontal progression." You don't have to do Island Sanctuary if you don't want to. It will not make your character better or stronger in any way. But if you're looking for stuff to do in the game, here's a semi-renewable system for doing so!

Like I said: "wasted potential" feels like the defining characteristic of XIV. Christ, it hurts to look at how empty and pointless the outdoor areas are, compared to how WoW has been cramming them full of WQs, rare spawns, and other little points of interest since Legion.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I never played WoD while it was live, I've only ever played it while leveling via Chrome Time or what would become Chromie Time. But I think the garrison is really well designed, although you can tell it was the first iteration of a lot of concepts that would later be refined with class halls, war campaign, etc. Followers are their own separate, simplified progression path. You send them on missions and they level up and frequently bring back useful things (including rare missions that might bring back pets or cosmetic things.) Then they hit level cap and have their own simplified version of a gear grind so they can tackle the toughest missions. You gain followers by doing quest chains, clearing raid encounters before the NPC is killed during the encounter, as rewards for reputation grinds, etc. Some followers can be assigned to tasks in the garrison, improving the efficiency of those aspects of the garrison. Others can accompany you as a bodyguard when you're out and about, if you have the right building in your garrison to support it. Upgrading your garrison is a mix of achievement progress and currency grinding. Most buildings will give you daily or weekly quests that send you back out into Draenor to do things, or to do a specific dungeon or raid. It's not perfect, and I can see how all the players being buttoned away into their own little garrisons instead of cities was a problem, but I really like the basic foundation and ideas there.

I think a lot of those ideas could have been applied to Island Sanctuaries. Make gathering and crafting central to progression for it. Bring me oak logs and steel ingots! Now cedar and molybdenum! I need a few of this item, you have a chance of obtaining them from doing FATEs in any Heavensward zone or at the end of a floor block in any deep dungeon. We need a few of this thing this week, you can obtain them from any Eden raid! Hell, you could add in optional progression and tie to synced clears of old extremes or savages. There's a lot of ways you could tie in Island Sanctuary to the rest of the game, and in a way that is a form of "horizontal progression." You don't have to do Island Sanctuary if you don't want to. It will not make your character better or stronger in any way. But if you're looking for stuff to do in the game, here's a semi-renewable system for doing so!

What I liked about garrisons is that it made you feel like for once, you are an important story character. For so long, you've been taking orders from various generals. High Warlord Saurfang, Garrosh in Northrend, High Warlord Krom'Gar, General Nazgrim, etc. Now you are the general who has his own base of operations and is issuing orders to followers (though the quest in Hillsbrad Foothills with the dialogue was a better questgiver experience than the facebook mission table). You get personally promoted by the Warchief. It also feels good to assemble a lot of familiar lore characters like Thrall, Saurfang, Rokhan, etc, all in one place, even lesser known characters such as Dezco or Lilian Voss. It also helps that you are the only big general of your faction in Draenor (I guess if you played Admiral Taylor, he also had his own garrison, but got murdered by Wrathion ofscreen. RIP). You are THE general of the expansion.

The concept could have easily worked for FFXIV. Early in ARR 2.0 you have to pick a grand company to support, and you could climb the ranks up to Captain, and you could train a squad of grand company soldiers through dungeons. For some reason they never made the higher ranks of marshal attainable. The Garlemald war expansion could have had Suikoden-esque RTS segments where you lead the forces assigned to you in battle. Maybe the equivalent of the garrison could have been a forward base the Alliance built.

A longer term solution would be to give the player a big airship. This would outlast a military base that would only be relevant to a localized military campaign that would end after 1 or 2 expansions. The airship could be taken to Meracydia or the New World, and the writers could come up with some excuse to teleport or portal the airship to other shards. The progression would be acquiring additional features and decorations for your airship, ie Hingan themed railings, a Thavnair elephant figurehead, mammets who squab the decks, characters who stay in guest rooms and become trust party members, etc.

[DeltrusDisc]

We can explore the Americas, to the west of Eorzea

Theres still the matter of rebuilding Dalmasca and the ones that escaped the Bozja campaign

Lots of unexplored corners of Ilsabard

Even then we can maybe visit the other Reflections

Fixed it for you <3

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Given how Yoshi-P has been hurrying to discard the long running subplots as quickly as possible, I expect the Thirteenth storyline to be wrapped up within the 6.X patches. 7.0 will probably be whatever new stuff Yoshi-P has been desperate to get to, be it the New World, Meracydia, or another world. Given how Yoshi lied about us getting a brand new cast in 6.X, I fully expect the Scions to continue to be the main focus.

Lied? I feel like that's a little harsh. While it might not have been what we were expecting, maybe he just found it too difficult to ignore all the Scions or he didn't want to do that to us? I feel like they've introduced us to a few new characters and that might be okay? I'm behind so I don't know what's happened most recently, so might be talking out of my ass, but honestly I'd prefer if we keep the Scions and maybe add a few more folks.

[zealo]

Fixed it for you <3

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Lied? I feel like that's a little harsh. While it might not have been what we were expecting, maybe he just found it too difficult to ignore all the Scions or he didn't want to do that to us? I feel like they've introduced us to a few new characters and that might be okay? I'm behind so I don't know what's happened most recently, so might be talking out of my ass, but honestly I'd prefer if we keep the Scions and maybe add a few more folks.

The guy you’re talking to didn’t pay all that much attention to what the story actually did, basically.

It is explicitly stated in the ending of the base 6.0 story that the “disbanding” of the scions were only their public face of their organisation, and not that they would actually cease to be like that.

That fact passed some players by, Val included, despite that they had Alphinaud drop a line to the effect of “at least that’s what the story will be” about their “disbanding”.

[Grinning Serpent]

The concept could have easily worked for FFXIV. Early in ARR 2.0 you have to pick a grand company to support, and you could climb the ranks up to Captain, and you could train a squad of grand company soldiers through dungeons. For some reason they never made the higher ranks of marshal attainable. The Garlemald war expansion could have had Suikoden-esque RTS segments where you lead the forces assigned to you in battle. Maybe the equivalent of the garrison could have been a forward base the Alliance built.

Yup. Like I said, wasted potential. The Grand Companies and the players' involvement in them should have taken a much larger role in the narrative and gameplay. There's also a lot of opportunity for adding tutorials to the game via the Grand Companies. You defeat Ifrit *and* walk away untempered? That's *never* been seen before, not really. Most would be slain by Ifrit, or tempered by him. You not only defeated him in combat, you were protected from his domination. So the Scions, right away, recognize you as someone special - and so do all three Grand Companies, each of which is struggling with their own Primal problems.

So you're encouraged to enlist with one of them, and through this process you also get your first mount and access to the Grand Company system. You're still a pretty green adventurer, all things told, so this is also when you receive advanced training from your Grand Company, at the behest of the Scions. You're someone special, yes, but it doesn't matter how much Crystal Mommy loves you if you can't fight your way out of a paper bag. Besides, not everything you fight is going to be a Primal. *Most* things you fight will not be a Primal. Surviving to level 20 and managing to defeat Ifrit clearly means you know the basics of adventuring and fighting, so this would be akin to the PC going through AIT, and each role would have its own particulars. I would also design this to build off of The Smith's tutorials (which also badly need updating), and would make The Smith's tutorials part of the MSQ to unlock access to Sastasha.

The Smith teaches you how to tank and hold aggro, how to heal and how to identify when you can get some damage in, why you should not be in front of the gribblies if you're not a tank, etc. All the stuff you need to know and understand to go into a dungeon full of pirates and survive.

The AIT provided by your GC would introduce you to somewhat more advanced concepts (pulling multiple packs at a time, how to identify when you *need* to heal versus when you can keep damaging, melee learn how to do positionals, etc) and also provide an opportunity to teach the player about common fight mechanics like stack markers, flare/spread markers, and gaze markers.

All of this makes perfect sense within the plot and narrative. It's not a tutorial barging its way into the middle of things, it's woven into the plot. IMO, they should also create new NPCs for each of the various roles that would fill in for you as Duty Support for the fight against Ifrit (melee DPS, ranged DPS, caster DPS, healer, and tank) and they should be sprinkled in among the GCs as what makes sense based on their class. Going forward, these NPCs would be among your options for Duty Support - after all, anyone that can fight Ifrit and escape untempered is definitely someone special. Just... not as special as the PC. You'd see them out and about while doing adventurer things or they could be found in their GC's city. No need to voice these folks, just add in some simple "Oh hey <CHARNAME>! How are you doing?" sort of thing.

I'd also expand on and weave the adventurer squadron into the plot, probably making it a requirement to progress in Heavensward's back half, after the Scions' persona non grata status is dispelled. Instead of taking a mix of random NPCs with you, you would have your squadron for Duty Support. Have the player lead their squadron in the contest in the back half of HW, where the Temple Knights are brawling with the other GCs to prove their worth and value to the Eorzean Alliance. Have the player encounter and defeat those NPCs introduced during ARR, each of whom are now lieutenants or captains themselves, each of whom is leading their own squadron. It just ends up that these were the people chosen to represent their GC in the contest, because it's a JRPG and that's how JRPGs work.

Come Stormblood, you go full on Warlords of Draenor and while you are certainly directly participating in the fighting (it's a JRPG, after all), you are advanced further within your Grand Company and are leading your own formation of troops - I'd say at least battalion size, but potentially even brigade sized.

There's just so much they could be doing with the Grand Companies but they just leave it as abandonware, like so much else in the game.

[Ghost of Cow]

Regarding the "new cast" comments...there were some interviews with Yoshi that were worded such that people might have picked up the wrong impression, so I do get it a little bit. Comments about bringing in new characters and saying that characters like Alphinaud can "focus on their own things now" might lead someone to think there was a big shift in cast.

Not going to say Yoshi "lied" though. That seems like nonsense.