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  1. #241
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    The iffy part would be his void research, to specifically counter the black empire, since that stuff carries a massive risk with it. But that puts him just at risk of corruption, while we know Sabellian is corrupted.
    According to Sabellian, he and his cohort from Outland were *somehow* able to purge themselves of the corruption - but that depends on whether you trust him at his word on that (and I personally do not). I agree, Ebyssian would make a better leader than either of them given the givens, but he doesn't seem to want the job, typical of those who'd probably be preferable.
    WHAT CAN THE HARVEST HOPE FOR, IF NOT THE CARE OF THE REAPER MAN?. - Terry Pratchett, Reaper Man

  2. #242
    Pandaren Monk Cloudmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    That's not what I would consider an "affiliation," and if it was, it basically means everyone involved in thwarting N'Zoth is also affiliated with the Black Empire, a meaningless distinction.
    I’m just curious about the events in Ny’alotha that he managed to get a deal with Queen Azhara to get the Xal'atath, Blade of the Black Empire and that somehow he presented us with a constellation cloak to be able to dispel the void corruption, telling us that he got this knowledge from someone from Pandaria. I don’t remember exactly who. Not to mention that he got corrupted himself and we had to free him.

  3. #243
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    According to Sabellian, he and his cohort from Outland were *somehow* able to purge themselves of the corruption - but that depends on whether you trust him at his word on that (and I personally do not). I agree, Ebyssian would make a better leader than either of them given the givens, but he doesn't seem to want the job, typical of those who'd probably be preferable.
    Quite possible, old god corruption has been massively reduced in terms of threat. Due to Wrathions hard counter and the void elves running around, without much problems. So it is possible and likely blizz would go down this route.

    But Sabbelian is still a piece of shit, if he wanted to atone for his past, that would be fine but he isn't entitled to lead shit, especially using the asinine argument that his father wanted him to rule, that alone should disqualify him from the position.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloudmaker View Post
    Not to mention that he got corrupted himself and we had to free him.
    When was that? The first boss wasn't him

  4. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Quite possible, old god corruption has been massively reduced in terms of threat. Due to Wrathions hard counter and the void elves running around, without much problems. So it is possible and likely blizz would go down this route.

    But Sabbelian is still a piece of shit, if he wanted to atone for his past, that would be fine but he isn't entitled to lead shit, especially using the asinine argument that his father wanted him to rule, that alone should disqualify him from the position.

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    When was that? The first boss wasn't him
    according to the sabellian lore he was the second in command of neltharion therefore he must be the heir in a dynastic secession

  5. #245
    Pandaren Monk Cloudmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post

    When was that? The first boss wasn't him
    It was him in Ny’alotha. Wrathion the Black Emperor.

  6. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    according to the saberlian lore he was the second in command of neltharion therefore he must be the heir in a dynastic secession
    Nope, Neltharions will should be discarded, since at that point he was deathwing and his will does not matter in the slightest and dragon flights aren't dynasties.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloudmaker View Post
    It was him in Ny’alotha. Wrathion the Black Emperor.
    Nope that was a transformed minion of N'zoth

    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Wra...%2527merax.png
    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Wra..._Black_Emperor

    The Vision of Destiny disappears, and the players and the Black Emperor are transported to the Annex of Prophecy. The real Wrathion walks in.
    N'Zoth the Corruptor whispers: You tread within a vision of what was... and what will be.
    N'Zoth the Corruptor whispers: My empire is this world's inevitable destiny.
    MOTHER says: Signal interference negated. Connection restored.
    Magni Bronzebeard says: Yer back! What happened?
    The corpse of the Black Emperor dissolves, revealing it to actually be the n'raqi Ki'merax.
    Wrathion says: I learned that it doesn't take much for my friends to believe I betrayed them.
    Wrathion says: Champions, that vision was as much for me as it was for you. N'Zoth wants us to believe that my corruption is inevitable.
    Wrathion says: Doubt me if you must, but know that I will not rest until his smoldering corpse lies at my feet.
    Last edited by Combatbulter; 2022-08-25 at 05:02 PM.

  7. #247
    Pandaren Monk Cloudmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Nope that was a transformed minion of N'zoth

    Wow, really? What the hell?
    To hell with the void then.

  8. #248
    Sabellian is a chad and true black dragon with harem full of bitches. Wrathion is a beta boy soy fuck who is so shitty he gets often inserted in romance fanfics with Anduin.

  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by Au-burn View Post
    Sabellian is a chad and true black dragon with harem full of bitches. Wrathion is a beta boy soy fuck who is so shitty he gets often inserted in romance fanfics with Anduin.
    What the hell did I just read XD

    By that logic

    Sabellian is a groomer, who took kids and indoctrinated them, while wrathion got himself a harem of grown mortals to do his bidding.

  10. #250
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloudmaker View Post
    I’m just curious about the events in Ny’alotha that he managed to get a deal with Queen Azhara to get the Xal'atath, Blade of the Black Empire and that somehow he presented us with a constellation cloak to be able to dispel the void corruption, telling us that he got this knowledge from someone from Pandaria. I don’t remember exactly who. Not to mention that he got corrupted himself and we had to free him.
    As Combatbulter detailed above, Wrathion the Black Emperor was basically an n'raqi named Ki'merax pretending to be a corrupt Wrathion to mislead and misdirect us - when that phantom was killed, it reverted back into its Faceless form and the actual Wrathion upbraided us for being duped so easily. As for Azshara, she gave Wrathion the Xal'atath blade because N'Zoth essentially betrayed and imprisoned her out of fear. Wrathion had long been looking into a way to remove the corruption from the Black Dragonflight, probably knowing a handful of his kind were still extant in the world and beyond - and part of this research led to both the corruption-resistant cloak and the potion he was able to make for Ebonhorn to release him from the majority of N'Zoth's influence.
    WHAT CAN THE HARVEST HOPE FOR, IF NOT THE CARE OF THE REAPER MAN?. - Terry Pratchett, Reaper Man

  11. #251
    Quote Originally Posted by Au-burn View Post
    Sabellian is a chad and true black dragon with harem full of bitches. Wrathion is a beta boy soy fuck who is so shitty he gets often inserted in romance fanfics with Anduin.
    not to wrong you cause I agree but ur Gilgamesh pfp litterally fuck a femboy and loves him over everything in the world in a weird bromance/love way.

    So you can't really judge the Wrathion/Anduin (and I love Gilgamesh / Enkidu ship, it's one of the purest love I've ever seen.)

  12. #252
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Ebyssian probably doesn't want such a responsibility, especially given his reluctance in BfA concerning representing the Black Dragonflight. As for age, it's hard to say if Ebyssian is actually older than Sabellian, since we don't know Sabellian's actual age and it's entirely possible Sabellian has served Deathwing since before his corruption, perhaps even before the Sundering. Ebyssian's age is easier to determine since we know his egg was cleansed by Huln Highmountain around the time of the Sundering, making him ~10,000 years old.
    Yeah, I just went to look up some more, and he’s actually stated as the oldest uncorrupted black dragon, not the oldest.
    Sabellian apparently heard the whispers of the old gods at one point. It kind of makes me wonder if Blizzard will bring this back up as the old gods still exist and might try influencing him again, like what they did to Fahrad.

  13. #253
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    Yeah, I just went to look up some more, and he’s actually stated as the oldest uncorrupted black dragon, not the oldest.
    Sabellian apparently heard the whispers of the old gods at one point. It kind of makes me wonder if Blizzard will bring this back up as the old gods still exist and might try influencing him again, like what they did to Fahrad.
    Hard to say, really. I'm personally expecting Sabellian to betray us at some future point in Dragonflight, revealing himself as still corrupted and/or insane due to the Old Gods' influence. While I also don't trust Wrathion any further than I could throw him, I don't think he's actually corrupted by the Old Gods or insane, insofar as that goes - he's just naive at best and incompetent at worst.
    WHAT CAN THE HARVEST HOPE FOR, IF NOT THE CARE OF THE REAPER MAN?. - Terry Pratchett, Reaper Man

  14. #254
    Wrathion is a fool who has made only mistakes. Wrathion Did Nothing Right.

    Sabellian at least has an acerbic wit which makes him more interesting to speak with than most modern WoW characters... or, perhaps I should say "had", as it seems that is being neutered from him. But one can dream.

    Ebonhorn would be preferable, but at least Sabellian can serve as a stand-in for old quality. Even if he is secretly corrupt, that is still preferable to that snot-nosed whelp Wrathion.

  15. #255
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arikara View Post
    Even if he is secretly corrupt, that is still preferable to that snot-nosed whelp Wrathion.
    I don't think it would be a good idea to empower him with something tantamount to an Aspect's power if he's still corrupt, as that seems to be the trajectory we're heading with the events in Dragonflight.
    WHAT CAN THE HARVEST HOPE FOR, IF NOT THE CARE OF THE REAPER MAN?. - Terry Pratchett, Reaper Man

  16. #256
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Hard to say, really. I'm personally expecting Sabellian to betray us at some future point in Dragonflight, revealing himself as still corrupted and/or insane due to the Old Gods' influence. While I also don't trust Wrathion any further than I could throw him, I don't think he's actually corrupted by the Old Gods or insane, insofar as that goes - he's just naive at best and incompetent at worst.
    Strictly speaking from what is shown in game:

    Wrathion is one of the worst kinds of people used in these stories. He does terrible things for the greater good, whether he knows it or not.
    He also seems to act like the things he does are okay because of the outcome. Like when he returns to Anduin with friendly, open arms, after his actions lead to the events in WoD, and the aftermath with Legion and Varian’s death.

    He also tells Sabellian that he united Azeroth to fight the Burning Legion, and that he is trusted and respected by all of Azeroth. I know 5 years have passed, but how anyone could learn to trust and respect him after what he did that caused the events in WoD and Legion is beyond me. I can’t even imagine Anduin trusting him at this point since, as far as we know right now, he’s still in the Maw helping to free lost souls and has had no time to rebuild a friendship with him.

    That’s almost why I hope Ebonhorn steps up or somehow is brought into it as the story progresses. I’d rather have a reluctant leader, uncorrupted and able to remain passive and level headed, than someone who is still potentially corrupted and can start hearing the whispers again now that they are back on Azeroth, or a delusional megalomaniac.
    Last edited by Eapoe; 2022-08-25 at 06:24 PM.

  17. #257
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Ebyssian probably doesn't want such a responsibility, especially given his reluctance in BfA concerning representing the Black Dragonflight. As for age, it's hard to say if Ebyssian is actually older than Sabellian, since we don't know Sabellian's actual age and it's entirely possible Sabellian has served Deathwing since before his corruption, perhaps even before the Sundering. Ebyssian's age is easier to determine since we know his egg was cleansed by Huln Highmountain around the time of the Sundering, making him ~10,000 years old.
    I'm betting that we will end up with Ebyssian as the new leader anyway.

  18. #258
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LazarusLong View Post
    I'm betting that we will end up with Ebyssian as the new leader anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    That’s almost why I hope Ebonhorn steps up or somehow is brought into it as the story progresses. I’d rather have a reluctant leader, uncorrupted and able to remain passive and level headed, than someone who is still potentially corrupted and can start hearing the whispers again now that they are back on Azeroth, or a delusional megalomaniac.
    I don't think it's impossible for Ebyssian to end up with the job, just that he seems reticent and reluctant to assume the mantle as it stands. Ultimately I agree it'd be the best for all concerned since both Wrathion and Sabellian have questionable histories (and a questionable present). An interesting development would be to have Sabellian and Wrathion's rivalry as represented in-game go a bit nuclear, with both Sabellian and Wrathion's factions pursuing some highly questionable tactics to make their respective leader come out on top, only to have Ebyssian finally step in to put an end to the infighting and taking up the mantle with Wrathion's reluctant and Sabellian's begrudging assent.
    WHAT CAN THE HARVEST HOPE FOR, IF NOT THE CARE OF THE REAPER MAN?. - Terry Pratchett, Reaper Man

  19. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    I don't think it's impossible for Ebyssian to end up with the job, just that he seems reticent and reluctant to assume the mantle as it stands. Ultimately I agree it'd be the best for all concerned since both Wrathion and Sabellian have questionable histories (and a questionable present). An interesting development would be to have Sabellian and Wrathion's rivalry as represented in-game go a bit nuclear, with both Sabellian and Wrathion's factions pursuing some highly questionable tactics to make their respective leader come out on top, only to have Ebyssian finally step in to put an end to the infighting and taking up the mantle with Wrathion's reluctant and Sabellian's begrudging assent.
    This is pretty much how I imagine it would go, and I also think that Drakthyr legacy will be involved.

  20. #260
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    The choice of who to support as leader of the Black Dragonflight basically boils down to "who do I trust more of these two untrustworthy people?" Wrathion's got a history of world-endangering mistakes under his belt, and Sabellian could be as corrupt and insane as Deathwing was. On one hand, we know Wrathion *means* well in most cases, but that's never stopped him from making terrible choices with huge ramifications. On the other, Sabellian remains haughty and superior, and probably wouldn't blink to make a decision that would empower him while endangering Azeroth (and that's discounting possible continuing Old God corruption).
    Before 8.3 it was a much closer choice, post 8.3, I definitely trust Wrathion more and he has shown he has grown too. I know he is extremely intelligent too, and he actually means well and is definitely freee of corruption and gained incredible resistance to it too. Eh has shown growth, despite his earlier mistakes he has made some critically good decisions that have saved us all.

    Sabellion? Hmm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    I don't think it's impossible for Ebyssian to end up with the job, just that he seems reticent and reluctant to assume the mantle as it stands. Ultimately I agree it'd be the best for all concerned since both Wrathion and Sabellian have questionable histories (and a questionable present). An interesting development would be to have Sabellian and Wrathion's rivalry as represented in-game go a bit nuclear, with both Sabellian and Wrathion's factions pursuing some highly questionable tactics to make their respective leader come out on top, only to have Ebyssian finally step in to put an end to the infighting and taking up the mantle with Wrathion's reluctant and Sabellian's begrudging assent.
    Kinda makes him a great choice to be honest. However Wrathion has been the one actively working to restore his flight and cleanse it's legacy. And he was doing it so young.

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