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  1. #21
    Banned Strawberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynarii View Post
    It is very fortunate then that you have Yugoslavia to live in instead?
    Of course, but I'm getting the fuck out of Europe as the retardation in the west is getting out of hand.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    Gee, it sure is weird then that...

    *check notes*:

    Swedish Support for NATO Is Now Higher Than Ever, Poll Shows

    I think maybe you might not be the authoratative voice of the will of the Sweedish people that you think you are.
    What the hell are you talking about? I'm saying how much worse the country has become and you're posting a poll on how many Swedes want to join NATO?
    /facepalm

  2. #22
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strawberry View Post
    I'm saying how much worse the country has become
    Without providing any evidence and without explaining how it's remotely relevant to joining NATO.
    The Were/Was Army: "Nooo you can't just vaporize my entire armored division, we had such a manly recruitment ad!"
    The They/Them Army: "Omg integrated fire support?? Go off queen sksksks, JDAMs are such a gemini thing."

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Miffinat0r View Post
    Again this reminds me of Jefferson vs Hamilton in that Jefferson thought isolationism was the best policy and Hamilton, who was correct, knew that the US needed a presence among the European powers.

    These schmucks think that isolationism will be good for the US but all it does it removes the US from weighing in on international issues and cedes ground to the Chinese, Russian, and EU interests often at the expense of our own.
    You give them too much credit if you think they are actually interested in anything beyond their own pockets. These votes are nothing more than empty, performative contrarianism.

    Jefferson was also a shitstain but I believe he believed in his policies.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Without providing any evidence and without explaining how it's remotely relevant to joining NATO.
    Eh, MMO-C always had resident Swedish posters bemoaning the decay of Sweden (and the West in General) and somehow a chip on the shoulder from Western/NATO intervention in the breakup of Yugoslavia seems to be a recurring theme.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Strawberry View Post
    I'd vote no too. Sweden went from 250 years of neutrality and war-free to "let's send weapon to Ukraine and join NATO".
    250 years??

    Sweden was last attacked in 1808-1809 (by Russia that took Finland).
    Sweden did last attack in 1814 as part of War of the Sixth Coalition (including Russia, the UK, Prussia, Sweden) to take Norway from Denmark as part of defeating Napoleon.

  5. #25
    Over 9000! zealo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    250 years??

    Sweden was last attacked in 1808-1809 (by Russia that took Finland).
    Sweden did last attack in 1814 as part of War of the Sixth Coalition (including Russia, the UK, Prussia, Sweden) to take Norway from Denmark as part of defeating Napoleon.
    The Yugoslavia part of his location tag offers some insight as to why this guy is poorly read on the particulars of Swedish "neutrality" after Napoleon as well as the time frames. Swedish policy of neutrality throughout the years after piping down as a result of getting the shit kicked out of it, is better described as having been one of non-belligerence during war with the goal of avoiding getting itself dragged in, with outright neutrality reserved more for peace, and that's if we're discounting the various UN sanctioned peacekeeping initiatives we've been a part of, as well as other crap like Libya in 2011 and a general political alignment with the west after joining the EU in the 90s.

    E.g this is an approximation of what Sweden sent Finland in material aid when the Ruskies decide to have a go at them in the 1930s.
    Approximately 2,000,000,000 SEK (US$ ~312,658,890) of financial aid - twice the size of the Finnish defense budget at the time
    50,013,300 rounds of small arms ammunition
    135,402 rifles
    450 light machine guns
    347 machine guns
    301,846 artillery shells
    144 field guns
    92 anti-armor guns
    100 anti-aircraft guns
    300 sea mines
    500 depth charges
    83 motorcycles
    83 cars
    350 trucks
    13 tractors
    17 fighter aircraft
    5 light bombers
    1 transport aircraft
    3 reconnaissance aircraft
    Last edited by zealo; 2022-07-20 at 10:37 AM.

  6. #26
    Banned Strawberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zealo View Post
    The Yugoslavia part of his location tag offers some insight as to why this guy is poorly read on the particulars of Swedish "neutrality" after Napoleon as well as the time frames. Swedish policy of neutrality throughout the years after piping down as a result of getting the shit kicked out of it, is better described as having been one of non-belligerence during war with the goal of avoiding getting itself dragged in, with outright neutrality reserved more for peace, and that's if we're discounting the various UN sanctioned peacekeeping initiatives we've been a part of, as well as other crap like Libya in 2011 and a general political alignment with the west after joining the EU in the 90s.

    E.g this is an approximation of what Sweden sent Finland in material aid when the Ruskies decide to have a go at them in the 1930s.
    Sending military aid =/= joining NATO and being forced to involve yourself in a war.
    Because if the west gets involved in a war with Russia its not going to win. The nukes will fly and there will be a lot more casualties in Europe as its far more populated than Russia is.
    And if the west believes I'm going to get drafted, we'll they can fuck themselves.

  7. #27
    Over 9000! zealo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strawberry View Post
    Sending military aid =/= joining NATO and being forced to involve yourself in a war.
    Because if the west gets involved in a war with Russia its not going to win. The nukes will fly and there will be a lot more casualties in Europe as its far more populated than Russia is.
    And if the west believes I'm going to get drafted, we'll they can fuck themselves.
    This country used to spend upwards of 3-4% of it's GDP (that's about where the US is at nowadays relative to the size of it's economy, btw) on it's defence budget throughout the cold war and practise universal conscription, as a policy of being able to put total war into practise for an invasion.

    That's the real cost of taking a policy of armed neutrality actually seriously as a baseline, something we've neglected doing after the collapse of the USSR when it were mistakenly thought that Russia being on it's ass and open to friendly relations meant that defence spending could be neglected.
    Last edited by zealo; 2022-07-20 at 12:38 PM.

  8. #28
    The Lightbringer Pannonian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strawberry View Post
    Sending military aid =/= joining NATO and being forced to involve yourself in a war.
    Because if the west gets involved in a war with Russia its not going to win. The nukes will fly and there will be a lot more casualties in Europe as its far more populated than Russia is.
    And if the west believes I'm going to get drafted, we'll they can fuck themselves.
    I mean if you despise the west so much, i'm sure Putin will have a nice play to stay for you. Then you're safe from the horrible greta and all this feminism, which is making your life a living hell.

    Also - don't play the victim, you started this whole thing with "Hasn't sent weapons for 250 years" - so don't whine when your wrong information gets corrected.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Strawberry View Post
    Of course, but I'm getting the fuck out of Europe as the retardation in the west is getting out of hand.
    Oh but I am afraid you are going back to europe, once they draft your useless ass and send you to the meatgrinder.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    Oh but I am afraid you are going back to europe, once they draft your useless ass and send you to the meatgrinder.
    *slowly hands the burn ointment* oof.

  11. #31
    Merely a Setback Adam Jensen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strawberry View Post
    Sending military aid =/= joining NATO and being forced to involve yourself in a war.
    Because if the west gets involved in a war with Russia its not going to win. The nukes will fly and there will be a lot more casualties in Europe as its far more populated than Russia is.
    And if the west believes I'm going to get drafted, we'll they can fuck themselves.
    Given Russia's performance in Ukraine, I wouldn't be surprised if the warheads are so rusted and ill-maintained, with parts stolen for profit, that when the technicians finally turn the keys to launch them, nothing happens.

    If they also haven't sold the keys for vodka.
    Putin khuliyo

  12. #32
    Epic! Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Jensen View Post
    Given Russia's performance in Ukraine, I wouldn't be surprised if the warheads are so rusted and ill-maintained, with parts stolen for profit, that when the technicians finally turn the keys to launch them, nothing happens.

    If they also haven't sold the keys for vodka.
    I mean I don't want to test this but the idea of them selling the keys for vodka made me chuckle

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    I mean I don't want to test this but the idea of them selling the keys for vodka made me chuckle
    You better hope the keys were the only things they sold for vodka.

  14. #34
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    Senate votes 95-1 in favor.

    The exception was Hawley, who said the US should be focusing on China. Which is a stupid thing to say when Russia has invaded Ukraine. Oh, also, the two things are unrelated. The US can work against China -- for example, by sending Pelosi to Taiwan -- while still being in favor of Sweden and Finland joining NATO.

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