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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    Well I was thinking of a joint faction, like we have with the Blood Elves and Dwarves in Dragonflight with the Dragonscale Expedition. so the "Sunstars" just seemed to work.
    It's just me looking at "bridging factions" like druids' Cenarion Circle led by Tauren Hamuul, and Night Elf Malfurion.
    The sun, stars, and moon..fit in well within the circle. And I think a Blood Elf sunstar would also fit as well.

  2. #22
    Well, certain horde-alliance races should have strong friendships based on current


    Night elves - nightborne : that should be strong because/ of the whole Elune, Suramar connection
    Night elves - Highmountain - that should be strong because of Huln with Jarod/MAlfurion connection

    Blood elves - Draenei - that should be strong because of the Sunwell Plateau and TBC events from Shattrath City onwards.

    Void elves and Mag'har could potentially be a strong connection - although void elves are rather snubby but the void curiosity of the shadowmoon clan might work.

    Humans and Blood elves - even with void elves/high elves back, humans foontinue to be keen on blood elves and dorsaken
    Human and Forsaken - this is porbably the most current trend.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    Well, certain horde-alliance races should have strong friendships based on current


    Night elves - nightborne : that should be strong because/ of the whole Elune, Suramar connection
    Night elves - Highmountain - that should be strong because of Huln with Jarod/MAlfurion connection

    Blood elves - Draenei - that should be strong because of the Sunwell Plateau and TBC events from Shattrath City onwards.

    Void elves and Mag'har could potentially be a strong connection - although void elves are rather snubby but the void curiosity of the shadowmoon clan might work.

    Humans and Blood elves - even with void elves/high elves back, humans foontinue to be keen on blood elves and dorsaken
    Human and Forsaken - this is porbably the most current trend.
    But we've seen some of these time and again and Blizzard just aren't developing them, to any sort of extent.

    If some are friendly, then they just aren't important enough to Blizzard.

    At the present time, the only important races that fit the theme of working together are Blood Elves and Dwarves.
    Allied races alone seem to be getting their time as well.

    Humans, Night Elves, Orcs and Forsaken are taking a back seat, which I like because I'm sick of expansions revolving around them.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    But we've seen some of these time and again and Blizzard just aren't developing them, to any sort of extent.

    If some are friendly, then they just aren't important enough to Blizzard.
    You should know by now that just because a thing doesn't get an update doesn't mean what we were last shown is currently cancelled. IT just means we haven't an update.
    Blood elf draenei relationship resurfaced in 6.0, but was absent in cata and MoP - you would have concluded that they weren't friends anymore after seeingno update - but that is the wrong conclusion. Until ore comes out that cancels what was set up between the two, it' has just not being updated.

    This company does that all the time, in fact it will only update when it gets to a specifically related part that involves the parties. So for example in WoD, when we needed the horde quests to also do stuff in Talador, the blood elf draenei relationship resurfaced. It was also there again in Legion when they set off to Argus.


    All the relationships are still there, this company isn't good at updating stuff, because it doesn't flesh out extensively the world in the current setting of the new expansion and the advancements - if it did through racial quests or books, comics, extra tid bit releases, then maybe w or simply updated a lot of things , then we would have.

    It's a shame, they could have a whole community engaging it on the lore, hiding easter eggs and making a deal about it so players get roped in - they aren't utilising the power of the lore nearly half as much and the biggest asset of a continuing story.

    Thrall/Jaina's relationship is still there, Nightborne/night elf stuff is still there, human/forsaken stuff is still there etc etc - no update doesn't mean cancelled, it doesn't even mean they aren't interested, it's just focused development.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    At the present time, the only important races that fit the theme of working together are Blood Elves and Dwarves.
    Allied races alone seem to be getting their time as well.

    Humans, Night Elves, Orcs and Forsaken are taking a back seat, which I like because I'm sick of expansions revolving around them.
    Dwarf /blood elf is all you've seen so far in dragonflight, it doesn't mean others aren't happening, you just saw Forsaken/human interactions in a recent patch and more promised to come, you were also told that the cross faction collaboration will be expanded.

    You don't know what the whole expansion holds, especially now they are hiding a lot of story developments and quests to surprise us.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by bloodwulf View Post
    Im not sure how we need more lore support. We have repeatedly fought side by side against "Insert Random Existential Threat Here" for years. Our leaders were already basically having beach parties, and the outright "villain" leader is on a path to redemption. You are always going to have some friction but at this point it makes less sense to not be allied with each other.
    That's been the situation pretty much since vanilla. The leaders have ranged from neutral to downright friendly with one another, while the rank and file is more varied, from neutral to "how badly can I attack the other side without my leaders finding out to" to straight up "enough of the rank and file are active warring with one another the factions leaders hesitate to order them to stop in fear of rebellion."
    The most difficult thing to do is accept that there is nothing wrong with things you don't like and accept that people can like things you don't.

  6. #26
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    The story stopped being about the factions or the world at Cata and definitely from WoD and after. It's about their soap opera stars. And those always had cross-faction storylines.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    SNIP
    It's will always be theme fitting from here on in.

    You can interpret or try and change Ion's words as much as you'd like, but the fact remains - if the theme fits, they will develop. If it doesn't - then they won't and they won't make special allowances.

    Some random story about night elves and nightborne being bessie mates in Dragonflight makes no sense and doesn't fit with any sort of theme.
    Night Elves will have their thing with the Greens.

    Nightborne will be involved with the allied race stuff and potentially, the Reliquary stuff since we've seen Shal'dorei join that group in BFA.

    Humans/Forsaken interaction - again, doesn't really fit with the whole theme of Dragonflight. They have basically completed the Forsaken arc of returning to Lordaeron now.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    It's will always be theme fitting from here on in.

    You can interpret or try and change Ion's words as much as you'd like, but the fact remains - if the theme fits, they will develop. If it doesn't - then they won't and they won't make special allowances.
    Do they change themes because they focus on something else? Or are they just showing you another facet?


    Some random story about night elves and nightborne being bessie mates in Dragonflight makes no sense and doesn't fit with any sort of theme.
    Besties? Dragonflight? You do realise I'm talking about the future of the lore well beyond dragonflught

    And no one is expecting cross faction races to be besties, but some occur, so what, is there some invisible law saying you cant be besties with anyone from the opposing faction? Which is a more I teresting scenario the way things are currently.


    Night Elves will have their thing with the Greens.
    I expect that, but I dont know that . They may surprise us yet.

    Nightborne will be involved with the allied race stuff and potentially, the Reliquary stuff since we've seen Shal'dorei join that group in BFA.

    Humans/Forsaken interaction - again, doesn't really fit with the whole theme of Dragonflight. They have basically completed the Forsaken arc of returning to Lordaeron now.
    Doesnt matter if it isnt directly connected to dragonflught, I am looking beyond one expansion theme.

    And since when do things in an expansion only ever relate to the main expansion theme??????

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    And no one is expecting cross faction races to be besties, but some occur, so what, is there some invisible law saying you cant be besties with anyone from the opposing faction? Which is a more I teresting scenario the way things are currently.
    That is your opinion.
    I for one, don't agree as we should take time to explore some friendships like Nightborne and Zandalari or Worgen and Void Elves or even, Lightforged and Night Elves. I truly hope we see Nightborne and Zandalari work in close unison with each other as they are very opposite races; however the two share a close friendship since it was the Nightborne who saved Zandalar from the Banshee Loyalists and Zandalari Traitors.

    I believe that the factions should be important to the point where the races look after their own first and work with their own, before wanting to seek out the opposite faction races.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    Doesnt matter if it isnt directly connected to dragonflught, I am looking beyond one expansion theme.

    And since when do things in an expansion only ever relate to the main expansion theme??????
    Ever since Legion, to be honest.

    And Blizzard might have a night elf and nightborne scene at some point in the future...but unlike 8.2 where both were asked about, this will only be done if it fits. It won't be anything special. Hell, the night elf fanbase haven't even been asking for Nightborne involvement with Tyrande's storyline. It could happen...but the Nightborne have no relation to the Green Dragonflight nor Northern Kalimdor as a whole.
    It's also why Thalyssra wasn't given pardon by Tyrande to go to Mt Hyjal, in the book before Shadowlands. Only Thrall, whom invited Baine and Calia.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    I doubt we'll get any real "cross-faction" lore support in terms of in-game questions, scenarios, or what have you that allow the Alliance and Horde to mix - the two factions will always remain bifurcated by the in-game divides. In terms of how that'll shape the narrative, I'd wager that Dragonflight and the next expansions will likely have stories where the Alliance and Horde work more or less in concert, albeit separately, with the occasional skirmishing arising from border or territorial conflicts that provide a reason for PvP content to exist. These conflicts will be small-scale and limited, as the developers have professed a desire to put the greater faction conflict to bed with the closing of the Fourth War arc, and they'll have no real impact on either the greater story or any ongoing ramifications.
    Eventually there will be no limitations between the factions as far as PVE is concerned I can guarantee that. They will have to make all of the faction based raids available for most sides which will come.
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  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    That is your opinion.
    I for one, don't agree
    What exactly do you think my opinion is? That some should be besties? This appears to be how you interpreted what I said.

    If you re-read, my opinion is that it wouldn't matter if some are besties, it could be interesting, but my point is that cross faction friendships should occur. The enmity that the story presented through most of wow is unrealistic on a national level. on a notional level, there was no friendship between races in the opposite factions. While inter faction individual friendships occurred either in isolated circumstances or in neutral factions and at first (the druid class, then DK, before legion's Class order halls). Cross faction cooperation only happened to fight the massive threats with great efforts taken to emphasise that we weren't friends at all and hated and mistrusted each other on a national (i.e race nation level) and faction level.

    This is silly and unrealistic as many have pointed out.. but it suited the Horde v alliance nature they wanted for the game. Now they are softening that stance because of allowing cross faction play, the point of this topic is to explore boosting the cross faction friendships on a national level - so not a class based or neutral faction thing.. but an actual national level.

    It is some races becoming or developing friendships, - you inserted besties, not me, , I pointed out that could happen after reminding you that this was not what I would expect. Yet it seems to have gone over your head. Because it was a reasonable statement, and not really my opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    as we should take time to explore some friendships like Nightborne and Zandalari or Worgen and Void Elves or even, Lightforged and Night Elves. I truly hope we see Nightborne and Zandalari work in close unison with each other as they are very opposite races; however the two share a close friendship since it was the Nightborne who saved Zandalar from the Banshee Loyalists and Zandalari Traitors.

    I believe that the factions should be important to the point where the races look after their own first and work with their own, before wanting to seek out the opposite faction races.

    Personally, I don't think that should happen. It is inconsistent with the lore. And without massive exploration into turning the tide, it shouldn't happen. I am tired of grand turnabouts in WoW of huge proportions between the established set up with little more than a statement and no exploration. It undermines the existing story - which you should be enhancing and building upon properly before tearing it up.

    Nightborne and Zandalari should hate each other. Barely tolerate each other because of the past.. The Nightborne remember the trolls, in fact they would be one of the few races that they remember, and the Zandalari through their records would not like any elf - Night or blood. they are a proud people. For Zandalari and Nightborne friendship to occur - it should not just be an off the cuff thing thrown in there - it should have some very good basis and interaction to overcome that sort of history - Based on what has come before..

    Not all races within a faction need to be besties, in fact wasn't the horde unique in that this wasn't the case, and some races borderline hate each other, but needed to stick together or hated the alliance races more - you don't just throw them together and whitewash them. If you put them together you create a good reason. If you want to convert hem to friends or even besties, then you have to invest the time to break down the walls and build new bridges,.

    It's not impossible, but you should start by having a friendship occur between two key individuals, that grows to encompass more, situations that they have to work together where you highlight them and a bond grows, then also a shared connection whether through the recent bond or something that they both love or care about. like power or nature and build on that.


    And if you are forcing a friendship because they are opposite races, does your new audience actually understand that? when the Zandalari were introduced, nothing was mentioned of the elven hatred. We know this from past lore and encounters with them, but players of BFA will not know this. You have to bring that up to so they understand why this is difficult and what makes the friendship actually unique. Then do it in a natural way, not a forced way.

    Using your example, they blizzard would have to then show Zandalar being very grateful to the Nightborne for saving them from Banshee loyalists - you would have to show Nightborne specific role and intent, rather than just there because they were the horde units available. You would also have to show the Nightborne willing to help the Zandalari personally and wanting friendship too as part of their new beginning and explain how. Because the Nightborne currently are friends with the blood elves, night elves of the broken isles, humans of Dalaran, and the Lightforged and draenei - as per the Legion quests. These are fully understandable because of the interactions we got and the similarities - they are off course historically connected to the night elves - being of that race and had further interactions , being saved by their night elf kin, their is a strong arcane magic connection with the Kirin'tor who played an instrumental role in the salvation of the city , and they work with the Lightforged and Draenei to take the fight to the Legion in Argus - also sharing magic affinity and high civilization with the 3 races. I need not emphasise the blood elf friendship, because you are all too aware of this.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    And Blizzard might have a night elf and nightborne scene at some point in the future...but unlike 8.2 where both were asked about, this will only be done if it fits. It won't be anything special.
    It won't be anything special? You don't know that, Is that what you want or just your opinion - it is nothing more - You should perhaps have said it shouldn't be anything special.

    It could be very special or nothing at all. For starters night elf to Nightborne need no introduction - it is already established, whether further is built on that or not depends on them, - but given the origin story of the Nightborne and their salvation - it would be very odd to totally forget the night elves exist - and I think that would be bad writing.

    You're a night elven people , you live in the capital of the Order of Elune, a Highborne led night elven community of the city, you've been saved by a night elven druidic tree, and you admire your goddess' high priestess too. You have Highborne connections to your kin too (obviously), and you've worked well with both Moonguard and Val'Sharah priestesses and druids who moved in - it's a core part of your story and your identity, and what you just ignore it totally - and not call it special?

    It's intrinsic. Now building a friendship with the blood elves, this is special. Why is it special, because the blood elves are a new peoples to the nightborne. They didn't exist before, and like humans, came about later. But unlike humans there is an ancestral connection to the Nightborne - the exact same the blood elves have to the night elves. Yes blood elves are connected to Nightborne the EXACT the same way they are connected to night elves, - because of what these two factions are. Building a relationship and a strong friendship is special because it doesn't have the previous ties like the kaldorei/shal'dorei have.

    The blood elf connection makes sense, because of the similarity between the peoples. It's elven culture, a new one uniting with an old one that still shares many similar values and dispositions despite their vast differences. There is no such commonality between the Zandalari and the Nightborne, inf act great enmity - it would take something or should take something special to build that friendship.



    I would not just thorw it in as one amongst many, i would not do it, but if I did, I would take time on it.

    Hell, the night elf fanbase haven't even been asking for Nightborne involvement with Tyrande's storyline. It could happen...but the Nightborne have no relation to the Green Dragonflight nor Northern Kalimdor as a whole.
    It's also why Thalyssra wasn't given pardon by Tyrande to go to Mt Hyjal, in the book before Shadowlands. Only Thrall, whom invited Baine and Calia.
    Why would the Night elf fanbase ask for Nightborne involvement with Tyrande? We have no reason to, it's not where the sotry direction is going so far and not really connected to the nightborne.

    If blizzard choose to involve the nightborne and do it in a good way, then that's their choice. Fans will like it , as they would anything done in a good way... but no one is asking for that - why would we? You have a funny way of bringing totally random things up.

    We are talkking about cross faction friendships occurring here to support cross faction play, and the point that it is something that should have been done a long time ago, but should be built up now. We are not trying to say dragonflight storyline should change or the plot should now involve x , y friendships.

    We can't make that assertion, we want them to do it, and they to decide how , when and where they would to it. We can discuss about the possibility of doing it in dragonflight - but why are you automatically assuming this is what I am trying to say or want.

    I feel you are putting words and assertions in my mouth, because you are are mis-understanding me and making assumptions you have no right to make. Either that or maybe it's what you don't want or how you see it should be realised. I'm looking at in general. I don't know what the dragonflight storyline is enough to propose x and y should interacting this manner. I am only going on what the lore has about the various groups and seeing what cross faction bonds make sense given the current lore.

    I think, to make the lore consistent, and strengthened, we should build on these, rather than destroy them, but if you destroy them you should do it well, and if you build on them you should build on them well. The ones that already have existing relationships or connections don't need much to buildon because it's already been done /rolleyes - I mean this is rather obvious - this is why they naturally make sense to be the first ones to do.

    1. You don't need much time to spend on them becuase they already have history - so you can do quite a few of them at once as
    2. People already and easily understand them

    To do the unusual ones like Night elf to Zandalari or nightborne to zandalari - you need to focus on specifically and build up..just like they took a while building huamn and orc. To do new ones too, even ones that have some commonality like say void elf /Mag'har orc, or Dark iron/Mag'har or Dark Iron/Tauren - you need to take time to build up too. These groups have no reason to connect currently. So if you were to do them, you have to build them.

    BUt then it begs teh question, why bother to do tehm? You have much closer to home examples in built in your lore, focus on those - don't jump all over the place. If a future storyline amkes sense for two groups who'eve never worked together to do so, you can create something then - but you already have enough material in the existing lore to have a few strong cross factions friendships.

    Namely:
    • Blood elf/Draenei,
    • Night elf/Nightborne,
    • Human/Orc,
    • Night elf/Highmountain,
    • Human/Forsaken,
    • Mechagnome/Goblin,
    • Lightforged/Nightborne,
    • Human/Nightborne,
    • Dwarf/blood elf (as of dragonflight).


    - all these already have connections or story that can bring them together.

    Extrapolating - we can also have Void elf/nightborne, Worgen/Tauren, worgen/highmountain, void elf/forsaken, blood elf/void elf, Dwarf (wildhammer shaman)/Mag'har orc

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    I doubt we'll get any real "cross-faction" lore support in terms of in-game questions, scenarios, or what have you that allow the Alliance and Horde to mix - the two factions will always remain bifurcated by the in-game divides. In terms of how that'll shape the narrative, I'd wager that Dragonflight and the next expansions will likely have stories where the Alliance and Horde work more or less in concert, albeit separately, with the occasional skirmishing arising from border or territorial conflicts that provide a reason for PvP content to exist. These conflicts will be small-scale and limited, as the developers have professed a desire to put the greater faction conflict to bed with the closing of the Fourth War arc, and they'll have no real impact on either the greater story or any ongoing ramifications.
    I sincerely hope that they do make an effort. it's the perfect time to start exploring some of these to facilitate the cross faction opening up.
    Last edited by Mace; 2022-07-27 at 06:03 PM.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    Personally, I don't think that should happen. It is inconsistent with the lore. And without massive exploration into turning the tide, it shouldn't happen. I am tired of grand turnabouts in WoW of huge proportions between the established set up with little more than a statement and no exploration. It undermines the existing story - which you should be enhancing and building upon properly before tearing it up.

    Nightborne and Zandalari should hate each other. Barely tolerate each other because of the past.. The Nightborne remember the trolls, in fact they would be one of the few races that they remember, and the Zandalari through their records would not like any elf - Night or blood. they are a proud people. For Zandalari and Nightborne friendship to occur - it should not just be an off the cuff thing thrown in there - it should have some very good basis and interaction to overcome that sort of history - Based on what has come before..
    You clearly haven't paid any attention to the Nightborne lore, beyond 7.1. (aside from constant whining about Blizzard putting them on the Horde.)
    Talanji and Thalyssra, along now with Thalyssra and Loti, worked and are working closely together in Dragonflight.

    This is why I strongly believe that the Nightborne need to make allies beyond the Elves and it starts within the Horde since they are a Horde race. This is why the Nightborne must remain Horde at all costs, because they can blend so well with the races of that faction.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    I sincerely hope that they do make an effort. it's the perfect time to start exploring some of these to facilitate the cross faction opening up.
    Ion has already said that it's not going to make huge impacts on the lore.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    Namely:
    • Blood elf/Draenei,
    • Night elf/Nightborne,
    • Human/Orc,
    • Night elf/Highmountain,
    • Human/Forsaken,
    • Mechagnome/Goblin,
    • Lightforged/Nightborne,
    • Human/Nightborne,
    • Dwarf/blood elf (as of dragonflight).


    - all these already have connections or story that can bring them together.

    Extrapolating - we can also have Void elf/nightborne, Worgen/Tauren, worgen/highmountain, void elf/forsaken, blood elf/void elf, Dwarf (wildhammer shaman)/Mag'har orc
    My view is - lets see lore develop between the races of both factions first and then develop beyond that.
    We still haven't seen Night Elf and Void Elf yet.
    Nor have we seen Nightborne and Highmountain since they are the Horde strongholds on the Broken Isles.

    Re-establish the Blood Elf/Forsaken connection with the Darkfallen Elves.

    And seemingly, whilst they're at it - establish new connections like Nightborne and Zandalari and hopefully, Void Elves and Lightforged.
    I really hope the intro to Dragonflight isn't the last we see of the allied races. They need time to shine and for Humans, Night Elves, Forsaken and Orcs to be benched for an expansion.

    EDIT: But again - these happen when the time is right. Not because I say they happen. Nightborne and Zandalari are happening because of the heavy allied race presence and Thalyssra and Loti are named as characters involved in the Horde intro to the Dragon Isles.
    Last edited by Tanaria; 2022-07-27 at 06:56 PM.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    You clearly haven't paid any attention to the Nightborne lore, beyond 7.1. (aside from constant whining about Blizzard putting them on the Horde.)
    Talanji and Thalyssra, along now with Thalyssra and Loti, worked and are working closely together in Dragonflight.

    This is why I strongly believe that the Nightborne need to make allies beyond the Elves and it starts within the Horde since they are a Horde race. This is why the Nightborne must remain Horde at all costs, because they can blend so well with the races of that faction.
    Well according to your logic, the fact that they haven't means that blizzard isn't pursuing that, and it will never happen

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post

    Ion has already said that it's not going to make huge impacts on the lore.
    That was before he said it's working out much better than they expected and they are going to greatly extend it. Keep up.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    My view is - lets see lore develop between the races of both factions first and then develop beyond that.
    There is always call for that, and that needs to happen a lot. But so does the cross faction, and they kinda need to do both. The cross faction friendships are important for balance to teh constant warring.

    We need cross faction friendships delved into
    New same-faction friendships explored
    Same-faction enmities also explored
    A tiny bit of cross faction enmity to smooth out rough edges.

    We are still waiting for Night elf friendships with void elves, draenei and worgen to be fleshed out more breaking the e ntire human dependence on the alliance. Panda development with night elves and worgenn. Tbh, the alliance can fit nicely in two halves but who knows how they will boost relations. I won't mention human connections because they've connected every alliance race very well with humans. Night elves , Draenei, Worgen and Void elves - do have a lot of commonality they haven't explored. Meanwhile, Gnomes, Dwarves, Dark Irons, Mechas, Kul'tiran are something we have to look forward too.



    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    We still haven't seen Night Elf and Void Elf yet.
    Nor have we seen Nightborne and Highmountain since they are the Horde strongholds on the Broken Isles.
    I think the connections would be popular amongst the fans, but this does require a race focus expansion to properly explore or a revamp of Azeroth

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    Re-establish the Blood Elf/Forsaken connection with the Darkfallen Elves.
    I would like to see that in particular - now with the new state of lordaeron being some sort of human/undead mix.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    And seemingly, whilst they're at it - establish new connections like Nightborne and Zandalari and hopefully, Void Elves and Lightforged.
    I really hope the intro to Dragonflight isn't the last we see of the allied races. They need time to shine and for Humans, Night Elves, Forsaken and Orcs to be benched for an expansion.
    I still don't like any Troll and elf collaboration - because it is anti-lore, so if it is done, it should be done properly.. Ther eis a lot in the lore about these two being on the opposite, even within the same faction they are at opposite ends. If any place you could explore elf/troll friendship, it should be on the horde, but it should be done in way that respects the already estbalished lore rather htan toss it out the window and just write they are all good friends now and smile to each other well.

    Void elves and Lightforged is much easier - but then again, maybe not. Void elf and draenei yes, how do the vLightforged feel about the void elves? Are they taking Xera's stance? or Turalyon and Velen's stance? Lightforged could be really good friends with void elves.. one development could be lightforged high elves, interested in studying the void/light interactions and bridge the two closer.. forming a light/void conclave of sorts. That would be interesting. To me at least

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    EDIT: But again - these happen when the time is right. Not because I say they happen. Nightborne and Zandalari are happening because of the heavy allied race presence and Thalyssra and Loti are named as characters involved in the Horde intro to the Dragon Isles.
    Pfft, we'll see how far that goes, not the firs time intro characters have fizzled to nothing after the opening scene.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    That was before he said it's working out much better than they expected and they are going to greatly extend it. Keep up.
    Yes, work on improving the system. Not the lore behind it. That won't be impacted. Keep up.

    Hopefully improve it so people who only do LFR and LFD will have cross faction.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    I still don't like any Troll and elf collaboration - because it is anti-lore, so if it is done, it should be done properly.. Ther eis a lot in the lore about these two being on the opposite, even within the same faction they are at opposite ends. If any place you could explore elf/troll friendship, it should be on the horde, but it should be done in way that respects the already estbalished lore rather htan toss it out the window and just write they are all good friends now and smile to each other well.

    Void elves and Lightforged is much easier - but then again, maybe not. Void elf and draenei yes, how do the vLightforged feel about the void elves? Are they taking Xera's stance? or Turalyon and Velen's stance? Lightforged could be really good friends with void elves.. one development could be lightforged high elves, interested in studying the void/light interactions and bridge the two closer.. forming a light/void conclave of sorts. That would be interesting. To me at least
    What you like isn't relevant since they've done it twice before.

    Blood Elves and Darkspear Trolls worked together in 4.1 and worked to hunt down Sylvanas.
    Nightborne and Zandalari have worked together, with Thalyssra introducing the Horde to Talanji and later riding with the Horde (Darkspear and Zandalari) to save Zuldazar. (Ironically, Nightborne and Blood Elves did not work together in this. Nightborne were with the Orcs and Trolls, Blood Elves were with the Goblins on ships)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    Well according to your logic, the fact that they haven't means that blizzard isn't pursuing that, and it will never happen
    But they are.

    In Dragonflight, I have caught glimpses of Nightborne, Zandalari and Dark Iron working to fight off hostile enemies together. Hopefully it's the allied races, working with Blood Elves and Dwarves.

    Hopefully we see interaction between these races.

    To me - because this doesn't involve the night elves, your not excited about it. That's fine, but just because your not excited about it or doesn't involve the god forsaken night elves, doesn't mean it's wrong. Hell, it's time for nelfs to have a break and let Void Elves, Sin'dorei and Shal'dorei shine.
    Last edited by Tanaria; 2022-07-28 at 08:03 AM.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    Well, certain horde-alliance races should have strong friendships based on current


    Night elves - nightborne : that should be strong because/ of the whole Elune, Suramar connection
    Night elves - Highmountain - that should be strong because of Huln with Jarod/MAlfurion connection

    Blood elves - Draenei - that should be strong because of the Sunwell Plateau and TBC events from Shattrath City onwards.

    Void elves and Mag'har could potentially be a strong connection - although void elves are rather snubby but the void curiosity of the shadowmoon clan might work.

    Humans and Blood elves - even with void elves/high elves back, humans foontinue to be keen on blood elves and dorsaken
    Human and Forsaken - this is porbably the most current trend.
    Night elves and nightborne have a lot of bad blood. The night elves look down on the nightborne for keeping their use of arcane magic, seeing them as no different and having learned nothing from the days of Azshara summoning the Legion. The nightborne in turn detest the night elves for being so judgemental against their culture and feared that joining the Alliance they would be forced to conform.
    The most difficult thing to do is accept that there is nothing wrong with things you don't like and accept that people can like things you don't.

  16. #36
    We will have hard Horde and hard Alliance NPCs (capitans from starting shore) drink with each other in DF. What is it, as not a proof for cross faction.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    Night elves and nightborne have a lot of bad blood. The night elves look down on the nightborne for keeping their use of arcane magic, seeing them as no different and having learned nothing from the days of Azshara summoning the Legion. The nightborne in turn detest the night elves for being so judgemental against their culture and feared that joining the Alliance they would be forced to conform.
    Do Nightborne even worship Elune? I mean, their is no lore for Nightborne Priests, save that a few Nightborne Arcane casters used time magic to reverse their wounds.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    Do Nightborne even worship Elune? I mean, their is no lore for Nightborne Priests, save that a few Nightborne Arcane casters used time magic to reverse their wounds.
    Not to my knowledge. Although the worship of Elune existed for quite some time before Azshara, iirc they were persecuted and marginalized by Azshara who insisted her people worship HER instead. There's no mention among the Nightborne worshipping her. Pre-Sundering society was primarily the arcane highborne, who either became high elves, naga, satyr, nightborne, or remained highborne, the Elune worshippers, and the druidic minority. Note the entire first group was completely eschewed by the latter two groups who assumed power after the Sundering.
    The most difficult thing to do is accept that there is nothing wrong with things you don't like and accept that people can like things you don't.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post

    What you like isn't relevant since they've done it twice before.
    As long as you also realise that. You would like more troll nightborne stuff - what you like isnt relevant.

    In the context of this topic, that is si meaningless.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    Blood Elves and Darkspear Trolls worked together in 4.1 and worked to hunt down Sylvanas.
    Nightborne and Zandalari have worked together, with Thalyssra introducing the Horde to Talanji and later riding with the Horde (Darkspear and Zandalari) to save Zuldazar. (Ironically, Nightborne and Blood Elves did not work together in this. Nightborne were with the Orcs and Trolls, Blood Elves were with the Goblins on ships)
    Ah yes, they are clearly besties now, looks like you already got your wish

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    To me - because this doesn't involve the night elves, your not excited about it. That's fine, but just because your not excited about it or doesn't involve the god forsaken night elves, doesn't mean it's wrong. Hell, it's time for nelfs to have a break and let Void Elves, Sin'dorei and Shal'dorei shine.
    Well, I didnt realise what I like mattered nearly si much to you. Seems you have a problem with what I like and dont care to find out why I wrote an entire paragraph outlining why I didn't like trolls and elves getting together. It had nothing to do with liming night elves - and I did give a condition I would be open to such a development.

    You clearly were not interested.

  20. #40
    The cross-faction lore support will probably continue to slowly grow. It's been the misguided direction since Metzen left. A long time ago Blizzard realized development is a whole lot easier if you don't have to make multiple quest hubs, questlines, cutscenes, etc. for each faction if they just merge them together. Market less content as a cross-faction feature. I wouldn't say that's been a game improvement by any stretch since we get a lot less content because of it, and faction identity which was a huge part of WoW during it's most successful years is sadly long-gone. But it has saved Blizzard a lot of work and development cost over the years...

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