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  1. #381
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    @eschatological could we maybe get some guidance on this issue before it completely derails the thread.
    Obviously the game is relevant to the movie. The conversation about what tieflings should look like, while dumb as heck, made discussing various editions of D&D somewhat topical, but if it doesn't directly relate to the movie itself y'all should count to 10 and ask yourself if the thread really needs this post.

    I'm not gonna infract over it, tbh, because the movie is an adaptation of the game. Also, a thread solely about the game would probably belong in the Video Game subforum? Or the other game subforums?

  2. #382
    Quote Originally Posted by Logwyn View Post
    Not as a playable race. They came out in the Planescape Campaign Setting (1994). Then in 2001 in the Forgotten Realms book as a playable race.
    But the statement wasn't about them as a playable race...just "as long as tieflings have been in the game."

    They've been in the game since 94.
    Isms bore me. I think they are only brought by people who seek to marginalize the potential of each ism to provide something meaningful. Name it, Capitalism, Socialism, even Communism-- all contain something of merit towards structuring a society. The biggest flaw in human history has been the need to take the worst of a system along with the best. It doesn't have to be all of one and none of another.

  3. #383
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    Are any of these pages about the actual movie the thread was created for or...?
    It turned into an argument about a human with dragon ancestry that became a druid.

    ...wat?

  4. #384
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    Are any of these pages about the actual movie the thread was created for or...?
    Some gets squeezed in by accident here and there. All we really have is a trailer, so discussion centered on the movie will just be guessing anyway.
    "I only feel two things Gary, nothing, and nothingness."

  5. #385
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    But the statement wasn't about them as a playable race...just "as long as tieflings have been in the game."

    They've been in the game since 94.
    Nevermind that they were playable since day one. They weren't a standard, core race, but they were absolutely an option in the Planescape campaign or any other campaign if a DM allowed it.

    I have no idea where he got the notion they weren't playable until 3e.

  6. #386
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    The thing with that is there are already other races for descendants of non-humans breeding with fiends. Elves have Fey'ri, Orcs have Tanarukks, Halflings have Wisplings, Dwarves have Maeluth and Duergar have Durzagons (not really sure why Dwarves and Duergar have separate ones, but 3E gotta 3E I guess). And technically Drow have Draegloth, but these are much more monstrous and their creation is somewhat ritualistic, so they feel a bit different to me. Personally I wouldn't mind at least Fey'ri and Tanarukks (and while we're at it, more Orc races in general) being playable. Most Fey'ri even have the bonus of having innate shapeshifting capabilities which allows them to blend into general society better.
    And Cambions are humans+fiends too, but i meant something that is minimal, not something so over the top, most, if not all examples you gave are too much on the monster side(like cambions) and not too much on the mortal side (tiefling), a tanarukk and feyri,are too much monster to be playable.

    Taking account how aasimar and genasi work, i think its only logic to make tieflings as another example of planetouched(any mortal race could ahve some sort of devilish/fiend heritage) and not just human+fiends

    On that not, i don't think its canon that tieflings can be from demons or yugoloths, just devils and generic fiends, i do know canon means nothing and we can make what we want, but i would like some official tools for it, sadly the abyssal tiefling sub was axed

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by VMSmith View Post

    Which makes me wonder ... any chance we'll see Elminster or any of the other more notable figures from Toril? Or maybe any mention of them? Given that we have a barbarian in the party it would be wonderful if she maybe mentioned her grandfather, Wulfgar
    i will probably lose it, but my money is on mordenkainen, that bald wizard is a big face of wotc lately. Maybe even some meentions of Vecna due to the stranger things show.

  7. #387
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    i will probably lose it, but my money is on mordenkainen, that bald wizard is a big face of wotc lately. Maybe even some meentions of Vecna due to the stranger things show.
    Both of those characters are from the Greyhawk setting, though as a god there's always a possibility that Vecna has a follower or two who's travelled to the Realms. But if we see anything of the latter, it'll almost assuredly only be one of his artifacts... doubtful as that is since, again, he's a Greyhawk character not a Forgotten Realms one.

    That said, we might have seen Szass Tam in the trailer. But that was the only potential "big name" that I spotted in it. I have no doubt they'll at least be dropping some other names, though less likely are actual appearances. Villain wise they'll probably only be some named Red Wizards or maybe a Zhent or two. But the movie seems to be focusing on smaller-scale stuff for now for the most part, so again, it's doubtful.

  8. #388

  9. #389
    I'm not sure what that pointing out those articles is supposed to infer.

    Those meetings took place between wizards from different worlds and took place on modern-day Earth (the very first article had them eating popcorn and drinking Coke in a pub with a Time magazine on the table next to them). It was just a series of fun fluff articles for Dragon magazine where Greenwood added some new spells, items, monsters, and the like for DMs interested in adding some new stuff to their games.

  10. #390
    Quote Originally Posted by Logwyn View Post
    One of the worst things added to the game. I'll never play one or would let you in one of my games.
    Are you replying to the wrong person, or just baiting? I never said I play a Tiefling. I'm a forever DM, not a player.

  11. #391
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocksteady 87 View Post
    Both of those characters are from the Greyhawk setting, though as a god there's always a possibility that Vecna has a follower or two who's travelled to the Realms. But if we see anything of the latter, it'll almost assuredly only be one of his artifacts... doubtful as that is since, again, he's a Greyhawk character not a Forgotten Realms one.

    That said, we might have seen Szass Tam in the trailer. But that was the only potential "big name" that I spotted in it. I have no doubt they'll at least be dropping some other names, though less likely are actual appearances. Villain wise they'll probably only be some named Red Wizards or maybe a Zhent or two. But the movie seems to be focusing on smaller-scale stuff for now for the most part, so again, it's doubtful.
    Well yeah, but both are big hits that can basically "travel" between material planes, even if they are greyhawk they can show up in Faerun just fine.

    But yeah, maybe they will start small.

  12. #392
    Scarab Lord Nymrohd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocksteady 87 View Post
    That said, we might have seen Szass Tam in the trailer. But that was the only potential "big name" that I spotted in it. I have no doubt they'll at least be dropping some other names, though less likely are actual appearances. Villain wise they'll probably only be some named Red Wizards or maybe a Zhent or two. But the movie seems to be focusing on smaller-scale stuff for now for the most part, so again, it's doubtful.
    I think they will want to at the very least plant hooks for a sequel so they might introduce a "next big bad" just for the sake of it.

  13. #393
    The Insane Kathandira's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocksteady 87 View Post
    Nevermind that they were playable since day one. They weren't a standard, core race, but they were absolutely an option in the Planescape campaign or any other campaign if a DM allowed it.

    I have no idea where he got the notion they weren't playable until 3e.
    Indeed, you just take a level adjustment to play a Monster Race as a playable character.
    RIP Genn Greymane, Permabanned on 8.22.18

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  14. #394
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I think they will want to at the very least plant hooks for a sequel so they might introduce a "next big bad" just for the sake of it.
    Fzoul maybe.
    But no Manshoon since he should be tied with Elminster, and the narrative would be changed.

  15. #395
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    And Cambions are humans+fiends too, but i meant something that is minimal, not something so over the top, most, if not all examples you gave are too much on the monster side(like cambions) and not too much on the mortal side (tiefling), a tanarukk and feyri,are too much monster to be playable.

    Taking account how aasimar and genasi work, i think its only logic to make tieflings as another example of planetouched(any mortal race could ahve some sort of devilish/fiend heritage) and not just human+fiends

    On that not, i don't think its canon that tieflings can be from demons or yugoloths, just devils and generic fiends, i do know canon means nothing and we can make what we want, but i would like some official tools for it, sadly the abyssal tiefling sub was axed
    Cambions are first generation devil descendants so either their mother or father is a devil. All the ones I mentioned, just like Tieflings, simply have an addition of fiendish bloodline somewhere down their family tree. Also, compared to an average portrayal of a 5E tiefling, Wisplings, Maeluths and Durzagons look like their parent race with a skin condition. And Fey'ri look like skinnier Tieflings with wings (and even then some Tieflings can also have wings), while being able to actually change their appearance at will, unlike Tieflings. Besides, there are plenty of completely monstrous races already playable and not so long ago WotC even toyed with the idea of a playable ooze.

    And yes, as far as 5E is concerned, Tieflings are devil-related only. At least according to Mike Mearls. The Xanathar table on Tiefling ancestry also mentions only devils. There was an UA for demonic Tiefling variant, but that stayed in the UA.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rocksteady 87 View Post
    I'm not sure what that pointing out those articles is supposed to infer.

    Those meetings took place between wizards from different worlds and took place on modern-day Earth (the very first article had them eating popcorn and drinking Coke in a pub with a Time magazine on the table next to them). It was just a series of fun fluff articles for Dragon magazine where Greenwood added some new spells, items, monsters, and the like for DMs interested in adding some new stuff to their games.
    Mordekainen also made a cameo in Waterdeep in Death Masks novel.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  16. #396
    Is Blackstaff still relevant? I haven't read any Forgotten Realms books since the early 90s.

  17. #397
    Quote Originally Posted by Dilbon View Post
    Is Blackstaff still relevant? I haven't read any Forgotten Realms books since the early 90s.
    Yes and no. "It's complicated."

    Honestly, given the nature of the movie, I'd expect to see figures more like (a) Xanathar or any number of thieves guilds like the Night Masks, Shadow Thieves of Amn, or the Black Daggers. Maybe even the Cult of the Dragon.

    A lot of it will depend on what point in the timeline the movie is taking place, too.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kathandira View Post
    Indeed, you just take a level adjustment to play a Monster Race as a playable character.
    Uh, yeah, that's 3e. There was no level adjustments or any of that other nonsense in 2e. Tieflings were just another racial option.

  18. #398
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    It turned into an argument about a human with dragon ancestry that became a druid.

    ...wat?
    So standard dnd then :P

  19. #399
    I'm thinking with this first movie they will try to keep the lore tightly around the characters and places as much as possible. They might spin out a little bit just to leave hooks in for either a direct sequel (same party) or some other kind of continuation (new party/setting/time). Build it up in a similar way to how the MCU started with Iron Man laying the ground work for The Avengers. Hopefully they have some kind of Feige-esque architect working behind the scenes to build the connections.
    Isms bore me. I think they are only brought by people who seek to marginalize the potential of each ism to provide something meaningful. Name it, Capitalism, Socialism, even Communism-- all contain something of merit towards structuring a society. The biggest flaw in human history has been the need to take the worst of a system along with the best. It doesn't have to be all of one and none of another.

  20. #400
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    Cambions are first generation devil descendants so either their mother or father is a devil.
    Same as Tanarukk too, first generation, what i meantt is something tiefling-ish but for other races like aasimar and genasi.

    Like, you can have a gnome, a dwarf, an orc or a human with celestial and genie/elemental heritage, then why not fiendish heritage? why just human? thats what i meant, i do believe they will change that in 5.5e down the road.

    then it only makes to ahve then All the ones I mentioned, just like Tieflings, simply have an addition of fiendish bloodline somewhere down their family tree. Also, compared to an average portrayal of a 5E tiefling, Wisplings, Maeluths and Durzagons look like their parent race with a skin condition. And Fey'ri look like skinnier Tieflings with wings (and even then some Tieflings can also have wings), while being able to actually change their appearance at will, unlike Tieflings. Besides, there are plenty of completely monstrous races already playable and not so long ago WotC even toyed with the idea of a playable ooze.
    I think its easier just do the aasimar treatment with tiefling, planetouched races, celestial and fiendish heritage. And the ooze race is going to be a thing in spelljammer, people confirmed

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