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  1. #21
    Dreadlord Sagenod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelk View Post
    demon hunters love stealing shit from other classes huh
    That wouldn't be stealing though would it? If anything it would be the DH copying the DE. DH stole Metamorphosis from Warlocks only because Warlocks no longer have it lol. If Demo still had their version of Meta, then the ability wouldn't have been stolen but also copied.

    And I would hardly say that my idea, Infernal Jet, is a mere copy of Soar. Sure, the concepts are the same, but aren't numerous other abilities across the classes? If it were only aesthetic changes I would understand, but this is not just a reskin because there are mechanical differences.
    Last edited by Sagenod; 2022-07-25 at 09:22 PM.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sagenod View Post
    As a matter of fact, who in this thread is concerned about a lack of uniqueness other than you?
    Hmm good question, Ask the other few that are in this thread.

  3. #23
    Dreadlord Sagenod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phob View Post
    Hmm good question, Ask the other few that are in this thread.
    I don't need to because I've read every reply so far. Whereas most replies have seemed to show at least a passing interest in the concept of flying DH's, only one echoed your sentiment on uniqueness~
    Last edited by Sagenod; 2022-07-25 at 09:32 PM.

  4. #24
    as a DH player I would like this, maybe its something in meta form?

  5. #25
    Dreadlord Sagenod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam552 View Post
    as a DH player I would like this, maybe its something in meta form?
    I was thinking of that too. Havoc would be fine, but Vengeance might look odd lol. You don't even sprout wings when gliding in Veng meta

  6. #26
    Definitely and also let us show our wings at all times, this could easily be added with the barbershop as an option

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Sagenod View Post
    Illidan could fly using his wings
    He could not fly. Blizzard stated this is Legion. The most he could do is hover several feet of the ground, but he could not achieve actual flight.
    If what doesn't kill you, makes you stronger. Then I should be a god by now.

  8. #28
    It would way more sense for Paladin to gain this ability.
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  9. #29
    Dreadlord Sagenod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pandragon View Post
    He could not fly. Blizzard stated this is Legion. The most he could do is hover several feet of the ground, but he could not achieve actual flight.
    Source? Not that it matters, I choose to ignore that fact considering it's probably just a meaningless retcon in the grand scheme of things anyways. Illidan was definitely flying around in TBC and that's what I'm going to follow! After all, the lore is a hot mess so I don't think it's the strongest reason not to do things right now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowfunk View Post
    It would way more sense for Paladin to gain this ability.
    Because they have an ability that causes them to temporarily sprout wings of Light that don't actually grant any degree of mobility? How exactly does that make more sense than DH, who have permanently accessible wings made of demonic flesh?
    Last edited by Sagenod; 2022-07-25 at 10:02 PM.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sagenod View Post
    I don't need to because I've read every reply so far. Whereas most replies have seemed to show at least a passing interest in the concept of flying DH's, only one echoed your sentiment on uniqueness~
    there is actually 2, you gotta learn how to read sarcasm for the other. The minority yes in this thread, but we are the majority. We just tend to look the other way when people try to make something that shouldn't and won't be in the game, in the game. It's a waste of our time. And yes I am just wasting my time, but really, you should definitely try to keep uniqueness in the game. And from what I have read, you don't even play a DH whereas I actually main one. We get a cool double jump and glide that works 100% of the time and they just get a glide where you have to be higher than a single jump to use and then a 5 minute CD to do a fake dragon riding, Still cool. Both fit the class.

  11. #31
    Dreadlord Sagenod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phob View Post
    there is actually 2, you gotta learn how to read sarcasm for the other. The minority yes in this thread, but we are the majority. We just tend to look the other way when people try to make something that shouldn't and won't be in the game, in the game. It's a waste of our time. And yes I am just wasting my time, but really, you should definitely try to keep uniqueness in the game. And from what I have read, you don't even play a DH whereas I actually main one. We get a cool double jump and glide that works 100% of the time and they just get a glide where you have to be higher than a single jump to use and then a 5 minute CD to do a fake dragon riding, Still cool. Both fit the class.
    Oh, you're right that's my bad there were two, I forgot I had replied to the other one. It may very well be the case that your opinion is that of the majority, but out of curiosity what does the common temperature on DH's have to do with my own meaningless idea? If you don't like the topic, feel free to exit the thread. Of course, that's not to say I have a problem with you disagreeing with me, but to be quite frank it seems a little bit as though you might be offended by the idea. I'm not trying to tell you what you're feeling, just speaking based on what I perceive as minor standoffishness.

    I played my Vengeance DH a lot in Legion but hardly since then. Played Legion, skipped BFA, been going back and forth in SL. So yeah, you definitely have more knowledge about the DH than I do. Why that matters in this discussion, I have no idea. I haven't tried to make any statements on DH class design, have I? The only thing I've been discussing is speculation on DH Soar, or [Infernal Jet] which is a dope name, I might add, that adds more flavor to the ability by verbal relation to [Infernal Strike].
    Last edited by Sagenod; 2022-07-25 at 10:35 PM.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sagenod View Post
    I played my Vengeance DH a lot in Legion but hardly since then. Played Legion, skipped BFA, been going back and forth in SL. So yeah, you definitely have more knowledge about the DH than I do. Why that matters in this discussion, I have no idea. I haven't tried to make any statements on DH class design, have I? The only thing I've been discussing is speculation on DH Soar, or [Infernal Jet] which is a dope name, I might add, that adds more flavor to the ability by verbal relation to [Infernal Strike].
    I'm just stating, why would you want something, when the players of that class actually don't care for it and appreciate what the dracthyr have. We have stuff they don't have and they should have stuff we don't have.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Sagenod View Post
    Source? Not that it matters, I choose to ignore that fact considering it's probably just a meaningless retcon in the grand scheme of things anyways. Illidan was definitely flying around in TBC and that's what I'm going to follow! After all, the lore is a hot mess so I don't think it's the strongest reason not to do things right now.
    This comes down to how you would define "flight". Illidan going 30 feet into the air and being able to move around that space and stay in the air doesn't exactly mean he's flying. We've never seen Illidan take high into the sky and travel long distances which would be flying.

    Regardless though, Illidan is not the same as the player DHs. He is far more powerful. Just because he is capable of doing something, doesn't mean we can/should do it as well. The fact that we can even sprout wings like daisies the way we do is dumb enough as it is.
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  14. #34
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    Where does Illidan actually fly with his wings? We know he uses them to hover and glide just like Demon Hunters but can he actually fly?

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Pandragon View Post
    This comes down to how you would define "flight". Illidan going 30 feet into the air and being able to move around that space and stay in the air doesn't exactly mean he's flying. We've never seen Illidan take high into the sky and travel long distances which would be flying.

    Regardless though, Illidan is not the same as the player DHs. He is far more powerful. Just because he is capable of doing something, doesn't mean we can/should do it as well. The fact that we can even sprout wings like daisies the way we do is dumb enough as it is.
    Illidan has larger wings than several of these Dracthyr, and he's flown just fine in his BT encounter. Let's stop splitting hairs.

    The only reason DH can't soar is A) Blizzard can't be bothered to animate metamorphosis for soaring, because they're lazy AF considering Warlock's several spells have had unfinished animations they promised to finish since WoD but have not (Soulfire still uses Classic vanilla mage pyroblast placeholder animation 3 expansions later; Shadowburn uses the Vanilla Mindblast animation; demonbolt is unfinished with no freen fire interaction, ditto for Demonic tyrant), and B) They gotta promote their new OP promotional hero class.

    Dracthyr is even more of a concept creep. Void Elf racial is a whopping 3 min cd for a delayed teleport, Highmountain is similarly high, and meanwhile Dracthyr gets a 1.5 min cd knock up, another 1.5 min cd knockback, and a Leap of Faith equivalent that allows you repositioning flexibility on top.

    Dracthyr gets a shaman's Spiritwalker's Grace with a dash tacked on top, ON A ONE MINUTE CD. Their spender is a mobile channel.

    I don't know why anyone would bother playing any caster when Dracthyr is basically a caster's closest version to Hunter mobility, with burst and massive utility tacked on top of ridiculous offhealing capacity.

  16. #36
    Dreadlord Sagenod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pandragon View Post
    This comes down to how you would define "flight". Illidan going 30 feet into the air and being able to move around that space and stay in the air doesn't exactly mean he's flying. We've never seen Illidan take high into the sky and travel long distances which would be flying.
    Go to 2:30


    Now, I am not trying to imply the expansion cinematics are any degree more or less canonical than the game. However, the expansion cinematics are (at the time) assumedly part of the canon. This notion becomes a reality when we get to WoD, where an event that's critical to the expansion's plot takes place in the cinematic. (The rejection of the blood and subsequent defeat of Mannoroth)

    I think it's fair to extrapolate from here the pretense that the other World of Warcraft cinematics depict canonical events. So that's why I go with Illidan in TBC, who can casually fly upwards from the ground so fast that he's above a cloud layer within seconds. From there I give that Illidan flying is going to be on another level from player DH flying, a skill gap that certainly leaves room for a very capable flying DH, one that is almost as fast as a frickin' dragon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pandragon View Post
    Regardless though, Illidan is not the same as the player DHs. He is far more powerful. Just because he is capable of doing something, doesn't mean we can/should do it as well. The fact that we can even sprout wings like daisies the way we do is dumb enough as it is.
    Yes, he is far more powerful, though that fact alone doesn't prove that flight/falling with style as a DH ability is exclusive to Illidan. The ability to fly is not unique by any stretch on Azeroth, given you know the whole magic thing. The Dracthyr, for example, were magically crafted by Neltharion, who created them with flight/falling with style abilities.

    Illidan was infused with a portion of Sargeras' power. Sargeras was the most powerful of the Titans, the very godlike beings whose power was used to create the dragonflights to begin with. Given the relatively equal levels on the power investment hierarchy, I think it's a fair assessment that Illidan's power is in the same league as that of the Dragon Aspects. I'm not saying Illidan is necessarily as powerful or more powerful than Neltharion, but simply that he's in the same weight class (figuratively). Therefore, not only is flying a trivial matter for Illidan if he so desires but he could also grant powers of flight/falling with style to DH's.
    Last edited by Sagenod; 2022-07-25 at 11:27 PM.

  17. #37
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Nah. Demon Hunters are fine as they are. Keep soar Dracthyr only. Demon Hunters still got Double Jump, which only Night and Blood Elves got to use for years. Let the Dracthyr have Soar.

    Illidan fans made their bed, now they can lay in it as Dracthyr fly over their heads.

  18. #38
    Dreadlord Sagenod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phob View Post
    I'm just stating, why would you want something, when the players of that class actually don't care for it and appreciate what the dracthyr have. We have stuff they don't have and they should have stuff we don't have.
    Well I think the DE should definitely have some sort of improved jump, not necessarily a double jump, in order to gain enough altitude to benefit from gliding over flat terrain as the DH does. It seems dumb to me that they jump as high as everyone else, which isn't high enough to get any airtime. I don't think that DH Glide and DE Glide should have the exact same capabilities. In fact, I want the opposite of that; I want to see flavorful variation between similarly functioning abilities, both aesthetically and mechanically. And when it comes to the idea I put forth, I think it's a decent rough draft for DH Soar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Nah. Demon Hunters are fine as they are. Keep soar Dracthyr only. Demon Hunters still got Double Jump, which only Night and Blood Elves got to use for years. Let the Dracthyr have Soar.

    Illidan fans made their bed, now they can lay in it as Dracthyr fly over their heads.
    Night Elves and Blood Elves didn't have double jump until they could use it as Demon Hunters though.

    Your opinion is reasonable, if a little bit biased lol. I am on the polar opposite end, I think the DE should have something akin to Double Jump, and the DH a version of Soar.
    Last edited by Sagenod; 2022-07-25 at 11:54 PM.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Sagenod View Post
    Illidan could fly using his wings, so why not the player DH? Yeah, yeah, Illidan is one of the most powerful characters in the entire canon, so? To that I ask: It doesn't actually take much to fly in the Warcraft universe, now does it? When you consider everything that is capable of it, flight becomes less special from an in-universe point of view. Flight is sort of a menial task for the average Azerothian, I mean you can take a heckin' flying animal taxi to travel between most locations around the world(s).


    So I think DHs should eventually get their own version of [Soar]. The following is my own quick, perhaps misguided idea lol who knows! Tell me what you think.

    [Infernal Jet] - Demon Hunter Ability
    Manifest demonic wings, leap up and unleash a downward blast of chaotic energy that launches you into the air.

    Infernal Jet compared to Soar
    - Equal cast time and cooldown, slightly lower max speed, slightly worse directional control
    - Pitching down builds momentum quicker, pitching up and using [Skyward Ascent] both drain less momentum
    - As you gain speed your wings start to glow and grow distorted by Fel/Chaos, with increasingly intense particle effects trailing behind you
    - At high speed you may resemble a Felfire Hawk blazing through the air, at max speed an Infernal Meteor streaking across the sky
    - Glyphs for this ability could reskin it to be smokey and shadowy like Illidan's form in Nighthold, orange and yellow fire like [Glyph of Crackling Flames]

    this needs a reagent of "Infernal Chili"

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Phob View Post
    But guess what dhs have that dracthyr dont. Double jump. Also dhs can't keep their wings out for sustained flight.
    I mean, they can.

    When Blizzard allows them to.

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