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  1. #21
    The Lightbringer Nymrohd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalisandra View Post
    Yup. Mitigation not quite as good as the others, but very consistent, so healing was predictable and thus easier to do efficiently.
    Then monks came and stole our gig.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Then monks came and stole our gig.
    Arguably there are too many tank specs these days, and that makes it hard to give them distinctiveness while still allowing them all to be highly viable.

  3. #23
    totally happy with the DPS niche personally. the ability to spec into defensives when needed will be nice though!

    biggest issue is the core paladin tree, which we've discussed in the ret thread

  4. #24
    Seems like you can build around Consecrate and total mitigation go Mastery/Versatility or build around holy power generation and Avenger Shield with grand crusader triggers go Haste/crit, not sure which one is more viable.
    Last edited by Seani; 2022-07-30 at 01:39 AM.

  5. #25
    I think the prot paladin tree looks quite alright, especially since you have a LOT of viable options in this tree. If you compare this to the bdk tree the difference in options and utility is staggering. Prot paladin can basically adjust to any situation.

    Limiting hpower generation isnt a massive shock, it kinda sucks sure but tbh being able to maintain 100% sotr uptime was just weird anyway. Having said that, although I havent played with it yet, it looks like the hpower limitation isnt that bad because you can get 2 judgements quite easily and improve grand crusadar to 20% proc chance which will affect judgement too. Ppl might remember this ment grand crusadar procced quite often which WILL give you the hpower you need, despite it obviously being nerfed overall. One thing I really dislike though is still having to deal with a very strict 5hp cap.

    There are numurous talents that make avengers shield way better. One talent down the line makes AS give 20% block chance for 5sec, which is litteraly way better than 1 holy power, and thats just one option. The idea that the holy power being removed from AS makes paladin significantly weaker is clearly incorrect and ppl who say that probably havent looked good enough at the tree.

    Cds are also buffed, you can easily retain the current cds you have and get MORE/better cds than we have right now like Eye of Tyr or massively buffed wings (sentinal + 8% mastery node in general tree + CDR + sanctified wrath, etc). Bastion of light also looks very potent. Only certain ardent defender interactions have been removed (conduit) but thats okay.

    All in all I'm statisfied with the tree, excited at having so many options. Power level of this spec remains to be seen (considering the general power creep) but I think this spec has serious potential because it is so versatile and can adapt to any situtation.

  6. #26
    The Lightbringer Nymrohd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donkeywing View Post
    I think the prot paladin tree looks quite alright, especially since you have a LOT of viable options in this tree. If you compare this to the bdk tree the difference in options and utility is staggering. Prot paladin can basically adjust to any situation.

    Limiting hpower generation isnt a massive shock, it kinda sucks sure but tbh being able to maintain 100% sotr uptime was just weird anyway. Having said that, although I havent played with it yet, it looks like the hpower limitation isnt that bad because you can get 2 judgements quite easily and improve grand crusadar to 20% proc chance which will affect judgement too. Ppl might remember this ment grand crusadar procced quite often which WILL give you the hpower you need, despite it obviously being nerfed overall. One thing I really dislike though is still having to deal with a very strict 5hp cap.

    There are numurous talents that make avengers shield way better. One talent down the line makes AS give 20% block chance for 5sec, which is litteraly way better than 1 holy power, and thats just one option. The idea that the holy power being removed from AS makes paladin significantly weaker is clearly incorrect and ppl who say that probably havent looked good enough at the tree.

    Cds are also buffed, you can easily retain the current cds you have and get MORE/better cds than we have right now like Eye of Tyr or massively buffed wings (sentinal + 8% mastery node in general tree + CDR + sanctified wrath, etc). Bastion of light also looks very potent. Only certain ardent defender interactions have been removed (conduit) but thats okay.

    All in all I'm statisfied with the tree, excited at having so many options. Power level of this spec remains to be seen (considering the general power creep) but I think this spec has serious potential because it is so versatile and can adapt to any situtation.
    YEah the feeling I get is that we will be able to build for everything. Good players will be very rewarded by this system. You'll just have to spend some time making several builds and then remember to actually switch!

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucetia View Post
    You know it's odd the devs apparently think we love having big gaps and getting nuked. Seems like we go through this every expansion and then they have to release hotfixes to make it not as bad. Usually we are told "Once you have more gear it'll be better, we promise!"
    The great part is that it's still in alpha and 6 months from release.
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  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    The great part is that it's still in alpha and 6 months from release.
    I would typically agree with that part, but every expansion it's the same thing. They think we are in a good spot because with more gear we'll be ok. Turns out we aren't and it sucks even more when you are gearing up. So I'm not holding my breath on it this time.

  9. #29
    Very unlikely you'll get nuked down with gaps in the rotation because you have more/stronger cds to fill in the gaps of your mitigation while stacking to 5hp, or you can use holy avenger/bastion of light (picking divine purpose is a potential trap considering most ppl autopick it like lemmings right now). On top of that we have additional ways of reducting damage quite significantly that we can stack on top of our normal mitigation such as more block mechanics or flat dmg reduction talents, this will make us far less susceptible to spike dmg if played correctly, such dmg reduction mechanics are not available to us right now. With stronger/more cds I would say getting nuked down to real dmg is less likely if anything and a worse hp generation doesnt make a difference in this most of the time I imagine.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucetia View Post
    I would typically agree with that part, but every expansion it's the same thing. They think we are in a good spot because with more gear we'll be ok. Turns out we aren't and it sucks even more when you are gearing up. So I'm not holding my breath on it this time.
    Fair enough, hopefully they continue to listen and iterate.
    Super Mario Maker 2: Maker ID 8B7-CTF-NMG

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  11. #31
    Running out of holy power is much more forgiving with blessing of dusk and inner fire. May be interesting to see less haste builds.

  12. #32
    I guess the one major negative I have is that it can be a bit annoying getting to the talent options you want to get to. While most trees have this issue, I feel that most options on the prot paladin tree are impactfull and have a purpose, so I dont like the current restrictions because they feel pointless anyway. Not being able to get around as easily or getting to guardian more easily is actually a little annoying. Regardless I imagine this sort of issue will always be present for somebody.

  13. #33
    There were some good updates to the Prot Pally tree. Some talents moving around and abilities updated. Does not look bad right now. Here is my way too early first look build.

    https://www.wowhead.com/beta/talent-...VVVUohYGhAIEBU

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Callsignecho View Post
    There were some good updates to the Prot Pally tree. Some talents moving around and abilities updated. Does not look bad right now. Here is my way too early first look build.
    Decent but kind of moves the problem to the sides. It doesn't feel good being forced into one of these 2 pointers you might not want. Best option would probably be another path going down from uthers guard/bastion of light so you have another way in. Looking at the prot warr tree; after they selected 29/30 points they can spend their final point on any talent they want except one major ability (like ravager). Such easy access to everything is ridiculous when you compare it to the paladin tree.

  15. #35
    Hopefully they don't stop at the Prot tree and look into Ret's tree too. We have too many Consecration-based talents that are pretty weak right now, and exciting new/returning talents are a bit underwhelming in the current iteration (Divine Tool not generating HP, LAotL has a pitiful increase, Exorcism being a bit underwhelming, ect).
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Gungus View Post

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  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Celvira View Post
    Hopefully they don't stop at the Prot tree and look into Ret's tree too. We have too many Consecration-based talents that are pretty weak right now, and exciting new/returning talents are a bit underwhelming in the current iteration (Divine Tool not generating HP, LAotL has a pitiful increase, Exorcism being a bit underwhelming, ect).
    The biggest problem I have with what they are doing to Prot Pally is that they want to turn it into a Prot Warrior. All of the block talents in the tree, they do not want 100% uptime on SotR, etc. Might as well just play a Prot Warrior at this point. They got way better stuff in their tree that came out today. AoE Taunt interrupt, spell block, and increased self healing.

  17. #37
    it's really bizarre to me because it's not like prot is op with 100% SoR uptime. It has been consistently middle of the pact the entire expansion, fine but certainly not the best (especially not in high keys)

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Callsignecho View Post
    There were some good updates to the Prot Pally tree. Some talents moving around and abilities updated. Does not look bad right now. Here is my way too early first look build.
    Not a fan of the new one either. There are just a lot of talents I don't want but need to take to get to some spots. Prior I took Relentless Inquisitor to get to the next row. Now they swapped it with Resolute Defender where I ignored first time, but now need to take to go to the next row.

    The new talents were supposed to be about "choice" so why give us an illusion by forcing us the way the devs want to. Why not just unlink everything and say take X amount of talent points in each bracket. Some of them I am taking just because I am "forced" to in order to get to the bottom and ones that would be decent to take I need to somewhat ignore in order to get to the other spots and spend them on ones I dislike.

    The way they have it done now too removes one of the bottom talents I was able to get to before because one of the spots I took was a 1/1 and is now a 2/2 in order to go further. Oh well guess I don't need Guardian in the end.

  19. #39
    How does this compare to what others are doing? Image has link to wowhead calculator with my build. This was my first time playing with it, so I'm sure some of you have better thoughts.


    To Infinity and Beyond!

  20. #40
    Is anyone still tracking this thread? I would love to see some other sample builds, especially from some who aren't as rusty at paladin as I am (took a long break, haven't raided since 2018). Anyone else interested in linking their build from Wowhead?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucetia View Post
    Not a fan of the new one either. There are just a lot of talents I don't want but need to take to get to some spots.
    That's how it always was in old (classic) talent trees as well, though. The different routes you can take are somewhat balanced by gating the most popular 'dessert' talents behind some less glamorous 'vegetables' talents.

    Right now I just like that we can get FOUR tree-end talents, e.g., Seraphim, Zealot's Paragon, Bulwark of Fury, and Divine Toll/Resonance. From a viewpoint of playstyle and player experience, we get lots of toys to have fun with.

    To Infinity and Beyond!

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