Retribution Dragonflight Talents

[Kalisandra]

The talent adding crit to wings is something I have been wanting in the game for a while because a damage increase isn't too fun.

We have that right now - every paladin has Wings on a 2min CD that give +20% Damage, Healing, and Crit by level 37.

In the new trees, so far only Ret can get the Crit bonus. On the other hand, there's a +12% Mastery bonus in the main tree (but it's +4%/level, which is steep), and we'll be able to stack a lot of stuff onto Wings. That said, if that's the 'best' build we'll be nothing but burst... again, and as always.

[Revamp Man]

We have that right now - every paladin has Wings on a 2min CD that give +20% Damage, Healing, and Crit by level 37.

In the new trees, so far only Ret can get the Crit bonus. On the other hand, there's a +12% Mastery bonus in the main tree (but it's +4%/level, which is steep), and we'll be able to stack a lot of stuff onto Wings. That said, if that's the 'best' build we'll be nothing but burst... again, and as always.

It probably will be
The dusk and dawn talent almost seemed good but it's in a weird spot (I say interesting because you can essentially make it to where you are never at 0) they need to just remove X% stat increase talents because they are boring and show that they have run out of ideas and are too lazy because it's been 18 years

[Eon Drache]

I only mained ret in WoD but otherwise have had it set as a close second

I didn't look too much into the general tree and I'm going to assume the current trees are early design because of holy missing but I really like it so far.

Path of ruin looks like fun because while it doesn't hit as hard you'll hit more often and generate more HP for more finishers.
Exorcism being back is nice but without resource generation it's just another button to hit.
The talent adding crit to wings is something I have been wanting in the game for a while because a damage increase isn't too fun.

I will always hate any of the "increase X stat by Y%" nodes because they aren't interesting or meaningful

Path of Ruin is a finisher not a builder.

[Revamp Man]

Path of Ruin is a finisher not a builder.

thats so dumb
i think i just assumed since it replaced a builder it would be a builder but no no no we needed a finisher instead that hits a teeny bit harder than execution sentence

[Eon Drache]

thats so dumb
i think i just assumed since it replaced a builder it would be a builder but no no no we needed a finisher instead that hits a teeny bit harder than execution sentence

Would have been a cool alternative as a builder, having 1/3rd the CD rate instead of taking the chance to proc 35% of the time. Im not a fan of a proc that has a chance to proc another effect.

[Revamp Man]

Would have been a cool alternative as a builder, having 1/3rd the CD rate instead of taking the chance to proc 35% of the time. Im not a fan of a proc that has a chance to proc another effect.

it would be so useful
yeah it hits for less but the shorter CD means more spenders which means more time feeling like you hit like a truck

as of now its "replace your builder with a spender that does the same thing but hits less"

[Varaben]

it would be so useful
yeah it hits for less but the shorter CD means more spenders which means more time feeling like you hit like a truck

as of now its "replace your builder with a spender that does the same thing but hits less"

Yeah I can’t imagine taking that talent as-is. It’s going to severely reduce HP generation, but the only time I can see it being worthwhile is on heavy cleave fights. Or maybe even in pvp against another melee cleave? It just seems like your damage will be better to just have more TVs plus more Wakes from the proc.

[Buffbringer]

Why not remove the stupid divine steed skill, and give us the awesome Speed of Light back?

Legion (and future expansions) really ruined ret for me... they removed exorcism, and gave us blade of justice. They removed speed of light, and replaced it with the stupid horse. They have since been trying to shove Justicar's Vengeance down our throat, a talent virtually no paladin picks, because it's just THAT useless.

Mop and wod were really fun iterations of ret paladins, and then they killed it in Legion and never got it right again.

[roboscorcher]

it would be so useful
yeah it hits for less but the shorter CD means more spenders which means more time feeling like you hit like a truck

as of now its "replace your builder with a spender that does the same thing but hits less"

In a pure AoE consecrate build, I could see Path of Ruin being really good. If you have 2 consecrates going (1 normal, 1 procced) on a big trash pack, Sanctification could be popping off so much that you don't miss the 3 HoPo from Wake. If they reduced the CD of Path to maybe 10 seconds, it'd be pretty amazing for AoE builds.

Edit: The Conc proc comes from Conscrated Blade, which procs only from Blades used during Art of War. If you have this talent, and also choose Ashes to dust, you will be harming your ability to spawn extra Consecrates (by 35%).

[Celvira]

Did Crusade get changed to be a 3 min CD? Pretty sad if true. I suppose there is merit in Crusade/Holy Avenger synergy, but in M+ we'll lose uses each run, and raid encounters tend to favor 2 min CD's over 3 min CD's.

[Snowfunk]

Did Crusade get changed to be a 3 min CD? Pretty sad if true. I suppose there is merit in Crusade/Holy Avenger synergy, but in M+ we'll lose uses each run, and raid encounters tend to favor 2 min CD's over 3 min CD's.

No? How did get that impression?
I think it's fairly safe to assume it will mirror the Avenging Wrath cooldown, like it always has.

[Celvira]

No? How did get that impression?
I think it's fairly safe to assume it will mirror the Avenging Wrath cooldown, like it always has.

I panicked after seeing this new tooltip - https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...30/unknown.png

...before realizing the tooltip isn't factoring in the baseline CD reduction SL introduced.

[ipoststuff]

- 4 points on Divine Steed but still no way to reduce cooldown. I was hoping to get it down to 30-35 seconds. Maybe merge into seasoned warhorse some cd reduction.
- Turn Evil is too situational to be worth a point.
- Obduracy is a bit weak for being that deep down and you can't skip it if you want anything below that.
- Last Rites (a bit weak) and Deemed Worthy design (every 3rd) seems better than Boundless Judgment (25%).
- Truth's Wake is too weak.
- Divine Toll seems too weak without conduit for single target/PvP.
- Justicar's Vengeance haven't been used since Legion but still hasn't changed. Way too weak.
- Long Arm of the Law is too weak.
- Hand of Hindrance cooldown is too long for a talented slow.
- Expurgation feels wasted point just to get Blade of Wrath for non-crit builds.

[Eon Drache]

With Season 4 I have more hatred for Shield of Vengeance and just how badly it scales with content. it stops about 25k damage which is nothing at all in terms of a defensive. I already feel squishy as is as Ret, but I feel its going to be so much worse in DF.

[Ashana Darkmoon]

Haven't had a chance to do any keys as ret yet (weird how no one will invite you! lol) since i've been tanking instead, but one thing about getting old dungeons back in the pool is that there's going to be so much anti-melee stuff lol. And the lack of defensives outside bubble seems like it'll be real bad

[PaladinBash]

anti-melee shit

Yeah and this week being Quaking as well makes it extra shit for doing bigger pulls ESPECIALLY in Grimrail. It's also going to get worse.

[Grapemask]

My complaint probably applies to the way the talent system has been applied in Dragonflight in general, but it's really been my complaint about Ret since 16 years ago with vanilla patch 1.9. Ret paladins have to make too many choices to work in very specific niches, while other classes are allowed to be "generally good." It's not fun, it's frustrating.

It's frustrating that I have to respec for every specific situations or I'll likely lose, but most other classes have enough ability overlap that skill can make up the difference and a better spec simply makes them better. Dragonflight pushes a lot of this design philosophy onto all classes, but after a decade and a half of dealing with it, I wouldn't want anyone to play this way.

[Eon Drache]

Looks like with the recent build Cleanse and Holy Aegis have switched positions. So good news is we can now get cleanse. Bad news is we now have 0 options as ret in the main tree as Holy Aegis is now further down the tree and is a dps increase talent.

I guess you still get to pick Freedom or Lay on Hands, And you can take either Conc healing or Judgement healing.

[Kalisandra]

Looks like with the recent build Cleanse and Holy Aegis have switched positions. So good news is we can now get cleanse. Bad news is we now have 0 options as ret in the main tree as Holy Aegis is now further down the tree and is a dps increase talent.

I guess you still get to pick Freedom or Lay on Hands, And you can take either Conc healing or Judgement healing.

Ain't it grand?

[Celvira]

Holy Aegis is a slight buff to DPS, yes, but it requires FAR too much investment to consider getting. Even before the change, our core tree had so many DPS increases down the middle/right paths, that investing past Rep/Blinding on the left side lead to significant loss of more valuable DPS nodes.

Basically, the Holy Aegis/Cleanse swap really didn't change anything beyond giving us the option to swap out situational talents like Seal of the Templar for Cleanse. Most Ret's would have avoided the left tree at all costs prior to the swap, and they will continue to do so after. Honestly, having Cleanse swapped for Holy Aegis allows us to be more flexible with our current ridgid utility offerings, so it was a positive change in my opinion.