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  1. #141
    Since they're not removing Divine Steed...

    They could do something easy like give it 2 charges by default, and have the point-spending nodes do something useful.

    Quickening
    "When Avenging Wrath is active, Divine Steed's cooldown is reduced by 75% and your Steed moves 100% faster."

    Illuminated Path
    When Divine Steed is active, all allies within 20 yards gain 25% movement speed for 6 seconds.

    The first helps us to not waste (too much) uptime with wings active should we have to move quickly, and the second provides a nice little "second, lesser roar" utility for the party/raid.
    Last edited by Gloriandus; 2022-09-09 at 12:57 AM.

  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eon Drache View Post
    Ashes to ashes is a great talent.... Its the current tier bonus?
    It's the 2-piece bonus, and it shouldn't be a 2-point talent as the first point giving 2s of Seraphim is basically worthless.

  3. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eon Drache View Post
    Ashes to ashes is a great talent.... Its the current tier bonus?
    It might be a talent that gives good numbers but a lot of players do not like it as a playstyle I reckon.

  4. #144
    Bloodsail Admiral ipoststuff's Avatar
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    I don't see any reason why Empyrean Endowment is triggered by judgment. Without it talent would be simpler and there wouldn't be any need for extra cooldown tracking.

    Templar's Verdict automatically triggers Divine Storm with 25% increased effectiveness.
    This effect can only occur every 30 sec.

  5. #145
    I dont have any faith on this spec

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Iseka View Post
    I dont have any faith on this spec
    I think the class tree is slowly getting better, but they havent really done much to the spec tree. They need to put the utility talents to the sides and make them optional. Feels bad that the 3 talents leading to the bottom are a slow, justicar's/efe, and a heal. One of the heals is worse when you consider the talent it buffs is also optional.

  7. #147
    Bloodsail Admiral ipoststuff's Avatar
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    I think Seal of the Templar should move to ret tree, not require aura and include auto attacks. Rogues, a dagger using class, getting 3yard on all melee without condition while retribution, a 2 handed using spec, getting a worse one doesn't make sense.

  8. #148
    I'm thinking ill try Vanguard momentum and Final Reconing and a Concecration style build.

    Anyone else doing the same? I never like Execution Sentence and Divine Toll, while nice was more God-like for prot paladins it was always kinda of meh for Ret-AoE.

  9. #149
    Safe to say Ret is done and what's out there is going live? Considering there's no blue posts on feedback, deep dives on talents, etc.?

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    Safe to say Ret is done and what's out there is going live? Considering there's no blue posts on feedback, deep dives on talents, etc.?
    The tree has seen almost no changes since it was originally released; I think we saw some shifting around of a few talents, but nothing substantial. It is very possible they think the tree is good to go as-is and if it goes live this way, it wouldn't be the worst thing ever. I kinda wish we would get something new and/or interesting added to the tree because right now the tree has a ton of problems.

    Holy Avenger is pointless, either rework it or just delete it. Hallowed ground is super under-tuned for a talent this far down the tree, plus it shares a name with a pvp talent. Looks like a placeholder to me. Justicar's vengeance is STILL in the tree and noone will ever take it. Some of our "fun" and well-scaling talents like Templar's vindication and virtuous command are severely nerfed from the SL variant. Righteous verdict also very underwhelming, nerfed by 2/3rds from live? Truth's wake is another conduit that would be a decent talent at max rank, but is just meh now because the damage is so minimal.

    There's just a lot of junk in the trees now - do other spec trees look like this? Maybe once they start doing actual tuning of damage these will look better, but as-is Ret feels exactly like it does in SL. And that's actually not a bad thing - we get to retain our 2/4 pc bonuses which is lovely, but until consecration is properly tuned and logistically manageable. They either need to remove the CD or do something else with it; it's problematic that so much of our aoe damage is supposedly wrapped up in Consecration (it's not tuned this way) yet it's this small static thing on the ground that we need 10 talents to make it useable and has a 9s CD.

    The Paladin feedback blue post hasn't had a blue post in 2 weeks, which I assume means they're working hard on it, not that Paladin has a fork in it. Hopium perhaps.
    Check out my Ret Paladin YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/VarabenGaming

    #RETPRESENT

  11. #151
    Seeing as we are now about a month away, heard nothing regarding Retribution and we haven't seen almost any changes to the ret tree since we first got it, there are still a number of issues with it that seem to be staying. My issues with the tree as is:

    Crusade may actually be staying a 3 minute Cooldown.
    Taking Divine Protection is a dps lose.
    There is a good bit to keep track of as far as buffs go for ret. And a good chunk of rng.
    All of the talents leading to the last section of the talent tree are utility talents rather than any dps talents. All of them are horribly placed. At least let us take Eye for an Eye over Hand of Hinderance.
    I really hate Inner grace and Sanctification. Random HoPo generation is awful unless you track Inner Grace, which is really crappy design imo

    And small but Avenging Wrath: Might has had a grammatical mistake in its tooltip since it was added.

  12. #152
    Setting aside the particulars of talent placement and number tuning and stuff, there's still zero reason to bring a ret paladin to anything unless it is numerically overtuned, which almost never happens. Imo nothing is really going to matter unless they address that; battle rez isn't nearly enough.

  13. #153
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    And now they've announced they're into, fine-tuning, number tuning, and fixing busted talents time, so basically we're fucked.

  14. #154

  15. #155
    Pandaren Monk
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    I'm actually glad i rerolled to hunter now. As much as I love my Paladin, I'm sick of it's only DPS spec being shat on from expac to expac.

  16. #156
    I was so close to play Ret this expansion when I saw Long Arm of the Law. But hey, it was too fun

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyze View Post
    I was so close to play Ret this expansion when I saw Long Arm of the Law. But hey, it was too fun
    I think they saw how happy the ret community was with Long Arm that they immediately decided "Yeah, we can't have this, take it away"

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by Varaben View Post
    The tree has seen almost no changes since it was originally released; I think we saw some shifting around of a few talents, but nothing substantial. It is very possible they think the tree is good to go as-is and if it goes live this way, it wouldn't be the worst thing ever. I kinda wish we would get something new and/or interesting added to the tree because right now the tree has a ton of problems.

    Holy Avenger is pointless, either rework it or just delete it. Hallowed ground is super under-tuned for a talent this far down the tree, plus it shares a name with a pvp talent. Looks like a placeholder to me. Justicar's vengeance is STILL in the tree and noone will ever take it. Some of our "fun" and well-scaling talents like Templar's vindication and virtuous command are severely nerfed from the SL variant. Righteous verdict also very underwhelming, nerfed by 2/3rds from live? Truth's wake is another conduit that would be a decent talent at max rank, but is just meh now because the damage is so minimal.

    There's just a lot of junk in the trees now - do other spec trees look like this? Maybe once they start doing actual tuning of damage these will look better, but as-is Ret feels exactly like it does in SL. And that's actually not a bad thing - we get to retain our 2/4 pc bonuses which is lovely, but until consecration is properly tuned and logistically manageable. They either need to remove the CD or do something else with it; it's problematic that so much of our aoe damage is supposedly wrapped up in Consecration (it's not tuned this way) yet it's this small static thing on the ground that we need 10 talents to make it useable and has a 9s CD.

    The Paladin feedback blue post hasn't had a blue post in 2 weeks, which I assume means they're working hard on it, not that Paladin has a fork in it. Hopium perhaps.
    latest post by the blue said they are mostly done with the talent trees and will be moving to fix tunning and bugs. So I guess the talent trees is going live as it is.
    Feels really bad for pally and bear druid. They got shaft hard. Some class also have bad talent trees (DH, Hunter, to a degree priest and mage) but is nowhere is bad as pally. Friend and I are joking in guild chat and said pally dev should work on shammy and warrior just for a few weeks. LOL all the warriors and shammy that were online got piss since they know their class will ending being as bad as pally. I was thinking of playing pally as alt but now I aint touching it in DF unless they made some decent changes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eon Drache View Post
    Seeing as we are now about a month away, heard nothing regarding Retribution and we haven't seen almost any changes to the ret tree since we first got it, there are still a number of issues with it that seem to be staying. My issues with the tree as is:

    Crusade may actually be staying a 3 minute Cooldown.
    Taking Divine Protection is a dps lose.
    There is a good bit to keep track of as far as buffs go for ret. And a good chunk of rng.
    All of the talents leading to the last section of the talent tree are utility talents rather than any dps talents. All of them are horribly placed. At least let us take Eye for an Eye over Hand of Hinderance.
    I really hate Inner grace and Sanctification. Random HoPo generation is awful unless you track Inner Grace, which is really crappy design imo

    And small but Avenging Wrath: Might has had a grammatical mistake in its tooltip since it was added.
    Nothing will change blue post already they are mostly done with the talent tress and is working on tuning it, number fixing and bugs fixing.

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by sponge5307 View Post
    latest post by the blue said they are mostly done with the talent trees and will be moving to fix tunning and bugs. So I guess the talent trees is going live as it is.
    Feels really bad for pally and bear druid. They got shaft hard. Some class also have bad talent trees (DH, Hunter, to a degree priest and mage) but is nowhere is bad as pally. Friend and I are joking in guild chat and said pally dev should work on shammy and warrior just for a few weeks. LOL all the warriors and shammy that were online got piss since they know their class will ending being as bad as pally. I was thinking of playing pally as alt but now I aint touching it in DF unless they made some decent changes.



    Nothing will change blue post already they are mostly done with the talent tress and is working on tuning it, number fixing and bugs fixing.
    Yep, I posted that before they confirmed, sadly. Looks like Blizzard still can't listen.

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by sponge5307 View Post
    latest post by the blue said they are mostly done with the talent trees and will be moving to fix tunning and bugs. So I guess the talent trees is going live as it is.
    Feels really bad for pally and bear druid. They got shaft hard. Some class also have bad talent trees (DH, Hunter, to a degree priest and mage) but is nowhere is bad as pally. Friend and I are joking in guild chat and said pally dev should work on shammy and warrior just for a few weeks. LOL all the warriors and shammy that were online got piss since they know their class will ending being as bad as pally. I was thinking of playing pally as alt but now I aint touching it in DF unless they made some decent changes.



    Nothing will change blue post already they are mostly done with the talent tress and is working on tuning it, number fixing and bugs fixing.
    Probably copium, but the post is pretty ambiguous as far as whether or not any more changes are coming to ANY classes. I took it more to mean "We're pretty much done and focusing on tuning, but there may be more iterations on some trees." I mentioned Ret, but the other paladin trees have some issues with them too and relative to other classes, Paladin has largely gotten no love in alpha/beta. Holy did get a nice post, but it's kind of a slap in the face for Ret and Prot to not get any specific posts or anything. Pretty sad.
    Check out my Ret Paladin YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/VarabenGaming

    #RETPRESENT

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