Retribution Dragonflight Talents

[Ashana Darkmoon]

oh i 100% agree on consecration. Like I said earlier, relying on ground-based damage is inherently a disadvantage with no upside. that's different than talking about pure numbers tuning imo

[Kithelle]

even classic trees are better than this.

Found the vanilla zealot who pretends like spending most of your time auto attacking is compelling because they have some silly vendetta against wow

[Celvira]

New build confirms Paladins receive the new brez, and nerfs to some of our talents damage throughout. The silver lining is that they are adjusted the class tree, so hopefully they'll condense some of the 0/2 and 0/3 nodes so we can select more utility without sacrificing our DPS potential.

Edit - I just noticed the new talents were up on Wowhead, and the changes made were all pretty good. All the DPS nodes are more readily available (we can safely take Aegis and Recompense together without sacrificing other talents), and both Unbreakable Spirit and Spellwarding are valuable talents that were placed higher in the tree. Also, my previous hopes for reducing talent bloat were addressed, as Seal of Reprisal and Seal of the Crusader both became 0/2 talents instead of their original 0/3.

As I said, pretty great changes all around! My only substantial grievance with the new class tree is that Seasoned Warhorse is still a 0/2 talent, and I'd love to see it reduced to a single node or rolled into Divine Steed and made baseline. If the latter was to occur, we could receive a new talent to improve Divine Steed like DK's new Mark of Darkness talent (possibly a talent that ignores roots when Divine Steed is active, but I admit this is wishful thinking).

For the spec tree, nothing major has changed, but it is interesting to note that Divine Protection is listed with a 1 min CD as opposed to the previous blue post claiming the CD would match SoV's 2 min. I'm hoping this is intentional and not a mistake, as Ret sorely needs a short-CD defensive to feel less squishy compared to other melee specs.

My wishes for the spec tree going forward would be seeing less reliance on trying to make Consecration more appealing to artificially "fill" the tree, and for some of those talents to get replaced with new additions/abilities that alter our gameplay in more meaningful ways. I understand this will be a more rigorous task with DF's release looming on the horizon, so realistically this is more a hope for future iterations of the spec tree post-launch.

[Eon Drache]

I like the layout of the new class tree a lot more now. We get more choices about which talents to take, though we are still forced down a set path. The Divine Steed talents still need to be adjusted. No reason it should be 4 talents. Merge Seasoned Warhorse and Cavalier so that it is 1 talent. Move Seal of the Templar into one of their spots. Move around another talent somewhere. It is a move in the right direction, though. The spec tree got the changes that were announced last week with Divine Protection and Divine Toll moving. I would like to see the node for selfless healer and healing hands switch with Eye for an Eye and Justicar's Vengeance.

We can now take Fires of Justice and Aspirations of Divinity. This makes Crusader Strike for ret way more impactful.

Something to note is Divine Protection is listed as a 1 minute CD, 20% Reduction 8 seconds. Unbreakable spirit DOES say it reduces to the CD by 30%. Anyone in beta can confirm if taking unbreakable spirit makes Divine Protection 40 seconds?

[Celvira]

Something to note is Divine Protection is listed as a 1 minute CD, 20% Reduction 8 seconds. Unbreakable spirit DOES say it reduces to the CD by 30%. Anyone in beta can confirm if taking unbreakable spirit makes Divine Protection 40 seconds?

When I was last subbed, that was how it worked for Holy paladin with Unbreakable Spirit SL. Although I think the actual CD was about 44 seconds.

[Eon Drache]

When I was last subbed, that was how it worked for Holy paladin with Unbreakable Spirit SL. Although I think the actual CD was about 44 seconds.

if it does end up being 44 seconds I'd be very happy with it. That would be a huge step up from what ret currently has as far as a defensive.

Edit: Seems it is actually a 2 minute CD on the beta for ret, the wowhead calculator is wrong and lists it at a 1 min base. Unbreakable spirit reduces it to a 1.4m CD.

[Kalisandra]

At 2mins CD Protection is worse than Vengeance, and as both as affected by Unbreakable Spirit, that doesn't change this. It needs to be 1 min CD to even begin to compete (and as Vengeance is horrible, that says a lot about how weak a 2min Protection is).

[ipoststuff]

• I think Divine Intervention would have been a better suited name for our battle rez. The new class tree looks much better.
• The Mad Paragon talent changed to only work with HoW. The Mad Paragon and Vanguard's Momentum talents work well together. I think you either pick both or none, which makes The Mad Paragon quite useless for other specs.
• Divine Protection at 42 seconds cooldown looks promising. I think they need take SoV off GCD too.
• Turn Evil needs to be instant to be worth a point. We already have Repentance, Turn Evil isn't good enough to varrant a point I believe.
• Seasoned Warhorse should reduced Divine Steed cooldown by 5/10 seconds. 45 is cooldown is too long.

[Foolicious]

oh i 100% agree on consecration. Like I said earlier, relying on ground-based damage is inherently a disadvantage with no upside. that's different than talking about pure numbers tuning imo

I personally think consecration builds should be thing for prot paladin, but seems like they want this to be retributions aoe build. So what about a talent that behaves like the old glyph of consecrator? This would make it more like a rushing jade wind allowing for more flexibility.

[Eon Drache]

• I think Divine Intervention would have been a better suited name for our battle rez. The new class tree looks much better.
• The Mad Paragon talent changed to only work with HoW. The Mad Paragon and Vanguard's Momentum talents work well together. I think you either pick both or none, which makes The Mad Paragon quite useless for other specs.
• Divine Protection at 42 seconds cooldown looks promising. I think they need take SoV off GCD too.
• Turn Evil needs to be instant to be worth a point. We already have Repentance, Turn Evil isn't good enough to varrant a point I believe.
• Seasoned Warhorse should reduced Divine Steed cooldown by 5/10 seconds. 45 is cooldown is too long.

Sadly Divine Protection is 1.4 min CD with Unbreakable talented.

[ipoststuff]

I think LoH should be usable in arenas. I don't think it makes sense to have a talent you can't use in pvp. Reducing base cooldown to 7 minutes would bring it to 5 minutes with Unbreakable Spirit. A big heal on a 5 minutes cooldown with Forbearance debuff is nothing too special.

[Kalisandra]

I think LoH should be usable in arenas. I don't think it makes sense to have a talent you can't use in pvp. Reducing base cooldown to 7 minutes would bring it to 5 minutes with Unbreakable Spirit. A big heal on a 5 minutes cooldown with Forbearance debuff is nothing too special.

Especially given dampening.

[Snowfunk]

Don't know if it's the most recent iteration, but now Ashes to Ashes is center bottom, in front of all the goodies.

I don't understand why they are pushing this talent, or why it even exists. Utter garbage...

[Nymrohd]

I personally think consecration builds should be thing for prot paladin, but seems like they want this to be retributions aoe build. So what about a talent that behaves like the old glyph of consecrator? This would make it more like a rushing jade wind allowing for more flexibility.

Just give us a utility talent that lets Divine Steed drag your Consecrations along

[Eon Drache]

Don't know if it's the most recent iteration, but now Ashes to Ashes is center bottom, in front of all the goodies.

I don't understand why they are pushing this talent, or why it even exists. Utter garbage...

Ashes to ashes is a great talent.... Its the current tier bonus?

[Stormdash]

Giving a brez is neat but I think the re-removal of Long Arm of the Law might have finally broken my will to actually buy this expansion. I don't care about PVP a bit, but I really enjoyed it as more or less on-demand or semi-constant movement boost in PVE, and I had accepted it was gone, but putting it in and then pulling it right back out in favor of that stupid-ass looking horse might have done it.

[ipoststuff]

This is more of a graph/tree design problem than a paladin one. In a tree it doesn't make sense to have connection from a node with a sigle parent to a sibling node. The connections below serve no purpose.

Cleanse Toxins -> Holy Aegis
Cavalier -> Avenging Wrath
Seasoned Warhorse -> Avenging Wrath
Judgment -> Seal of the Templar

[Gloriandus]

Since they're not removing Divine Steed...

They could do something easy like give it 2 charges by default, and have the point-spending nodes do something useful.

Quickening
"When Avenging Wrath is active, Divine Steed's cooldown is reduced by 75% and your Steed moves 100% faster."

Illuminated Path
When Divine Steed is active, all allies within 20 yards gain 25% movement speed for 6 seconds.

The first helps us to not waste (too much) uptime with wings active should we have to move quickly, and the second provides a nice little "second, lesser roar" utility for the party/raid.

[Kalisandra]

Ashes to ashes is a great talent.... Its the current tier bonus?

It's the 2-piece bonus, and it shouldn't be a 2-point talent as the first point giving 2s of Seraphim is basically worthless.

[Nymrohd]

Ashes to ashes is a great talent.... Its the current tier bonus?

It might be a talent that gives good numbers but a lot of players do not like it as a playstyle I reckon.