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  1. #41
    Ross Perot came the closest with 19% of the vote. Had he not done some stupid shit in the summer of that election ('92), I think he'd have done better. (Votes were 20% liberals, 27% conservatives, 53% moderates)

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    I wonder what it would take to actually make a third party be able to get big enough to actually be a real threat to the existing two.
    You'd have to get rid of the Electoral College and FPTP voting in the United States.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    You'd have to get rid of the Electoral College and FPTP voting in the United States.
    I meant under the current system.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    I meant under the current system.
    You cannot. There are defined mechanisms in place to prevent it.

  5. #45
    I, personally, think this pseudo 2 party system in US is weird AF.

    IMO, US could use some variety there and moving to parliamentary democracy while at it.
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  6. #46
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    I wonder what it would take to actually make a third party be able to get big enough to actually be a real threat to the existing two.
    Ranked choice. Which would require a bunch of states to sign up for it.

    Remember:

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Ross Perot came the closest with 19% of the vote. Had he not done some stupid shit in the summer of that election ('92), I think he'd have done better. (Votes were 20% liberals, 27% conservatives, 53% moderates)
    Perot and HW were far closer to each other in ideology than either was to Clinton. Redo that election with a ranked choice system, and Bush gets re-elected.

  7. #47
    Moderator Rozz's Avatar
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    I'm skeptical because what they determine to be fringe extremes could just mean they're basically just democrats or basically just republicans.

    And the people who support either do so for very specific issues. With how things are in this country, I don't think you're going to sway the majority of any demographic because the idiots voted in atm have turned every aspect of life into a culture war and political spectacle.

    But I understand the sentiment of wanting to lionize both parties' support to force everything to hard reset. If they can do it, I welcome it in the end. We do need change.
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  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    I meant under the current system.
    Would never happen then.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    I meant under the current system.
    You don't. The system in place basically forces a two party system. All a third party does is essentially syphon votes off one of the two parties in which they are more closely aligned with allowing the party they are further away from win.

    After a while they either become a nothing party like the US greens or they take over as one of the big two parties. Like the Republicans basically replaced the whig party.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    Moderating the left/right wings is good, and third parties should be welcome in politics. However we don't really need a third party to make more progress. The two party system works fine since you just need the encumbent party and an opposition party. That's all you really need for (non-violent) course-correction, which is the purpose of democracy.
    What a load of horseshoe this post was.
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  11. #51
    The Unstoppable Force PC2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    What a load of horseshoe this post was.
    So then say why or tell us what is optimal for politics...

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    So then say why or tell us what is optimal for politics...
    Literally any other country of the Western hemisphere. Except Britain. Look around. You're a smart lad. You'll figure it out.
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  13. #53
    The Unstoppable Force PC2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Literally any other country of the Western hemisphere. Except Britain. Look around. You're a smart lad. You'll figure it out.
    The Western Hemisphere(excluding the USA) should largely be copying the USA because we're more prosperous, more innovative, and more productive. Why should we copy other countries that are on average less successful and less productive? That's backwards.
    Last edited by PC2; 2022-07-31 at 02:35 PM.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    The Western Hemisphere(excluding the USA) should largely be copying the USA because we're more prosperous, more innovative, and more productive.
    I'd ask, "at what cost?" But you've proven beyond any doubt you never know what you're talking about.
    Other countries such as Norway are more friendlier and less stratified, things that you've no interest in.

  15. #55
    The Unstoppable Force PC2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    I'd ask, "at what cost?" But you've proven beyond any doubt you never know what you're talking about.
    Other countries such as Norway are more friendlier and less stratified, things that you've no interest in.
    Norway isn't in the Western Hemisphere, but it doesn't really matter because the USA and Norway already operate based on a similar system with similar policies. The USA is far from being a pure capitalist state like some people believe, and Norway is far from being a socialist state with socialized means of production. The two countries aren't as different as you're (probably) thinking.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    Norway isn't in the Western Hemisphere
    Looks like we can add Geography to the long, long, LONG list of things that PC2 isn't sufficiently educated to be able to discuss. Ouch.

    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    the USA and Norway already operate based on a similar system with similar policies
    Oh, and add Sociology and Political Sciences to that list (if it wasn't there already).
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  17. #57
    Merely a Setback Adam Jensen's Avatar
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    Could be a way to split the democrat vote and allow Trump or DeSantis to win.

    We need third parties, but for now we need to work within the current system otherwise we risk letting fascism win.
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  18. #58
    Trump running as an independent might prove comedic.

  19. #59
    The Unstoppable Force PC2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    Looks like we can add Geography to the long, long, LONG list of things that PC2 isn't sufficiently educated to be able to discuss. Ouch.

    Oh, and add Sociology and Political Sciences to that list (if it wasn't there already).
    Okay let's compare maps, here's mine:



    Do you know where Norway is?

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    Looks like we can add Geography to the long, long, LONG list of things that PC2 isn't sufficiently educated to be able to discuss. Ouch. Oh, and add Sociology and Political Sciences to that list (if it wasn't there already).
    Or... it's the typical libertarian shtick of dismissing a relevant opposing point.

    Hmm..
    No. You nailed it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Norway
    The Western World, also referred to as simply the West, is a term that can mean different things depending upon the speaker and the context. It is sometimes used incorrectly as a synonym for countries in the Western Hemisphere or even for just Western Europe on its own. However, its true meaning is somewhat more nuanced.

    The most widely accepted modern definition of the "Western World" is based not upon geographical location but upon the cultural (or when appropriate, political or economic) identities of the countries in question. Using this definition, the Western World includes Europe as well as any countries whose cultures are strongly influenced by European values or whose populations include many people descended from European colonists—for example Australia, New Zealand, and most countries in North and South America

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