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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Toppy View Post
    Looking through the crafting changes, and while I am glad they are adding some depth to the system as a whole, I am wondering if this will actually change anything. Hasn't Ion already stated that the crafted gear you'll be able to make wont be as good as end game PvP, Mythic+ and raid gear? In other words, the end result being the same as it is now, maybe even lower depending on what they decide to go with?

    The most major problem of the crafting system wasnt that it was boring (mind you, that was a problem though), it was that it was unrewarding. And by Ion's own words, it looks like it's staying that way. I don't, and I imagine most wont, see much reason to put a bunch of time and effort into a system to get gear that'll be on par with heroic dungeon or LFR.
    To answer the question, there IS NO point. If you can't make and sell gear that's equivalent to end game quality, don't bother.

  2. #142
    It's that way so casuals can have something to do while raiders can't screech about casuals getting free raid epics.

  3. #143
    Herald of the Titans Daffan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toppy View Post
    Looking through the crafting changes, and while I am glad they are adding some depth to the system as a whole, I am wondering if this will actually change anything. Hasn't Ion already stated that the crafted gear you'll be able to make wont be as good as end game PvP, Mythic+ and raid gear? In other words, the end result being the same as it is now, maybe even lower depending on what they decide to go with?

    The most major problem of the crafting system wasnt that it was boring (mind you, that was a problem though), it was that it was unrewarding. And by Ion's own words, it looks like it's staying that way. I don't, and I imagine most wont, see much reason to put a bunch of time and effort into a system to get gear that'll be on par with heroic dungeon or LFR.
    WoW's gearing system is really whack, ppl not gonna invest tons of gold in items that they can get welfare free later lmao

    Quote Originally Posted by Toppy View Post
    You realize thats how it already works, right? You raid for the raid crafting material to up the ilvl.


    Everyone in this thread keeps reposting variations of the same thing which is explaining how crafting currently works.


    Not how the TBC system works. TBC system you can buy material via vendors. Also as far as I can tell the specilization (in DF) does little else but make crafting a little easier, it doesnt improve on ilvls.

    TBC system allowed a great deal more ability to craft without raiding. The materials could be got via dungeoning. It was certainly easier if you raided, but it wasn't the one method. It was casual friendly.

    It was casual friendly because the items actually kept their value so the investment was worth it for everyone (including casuals)
    Last edited by Daffan; 2022-08-07 at 07:17 AM.
    Content drought is a combination of catchup mechanics and no new content.

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Daffan View Post
    It was casual friendly because the items actually kept their value so the investment was worth it for everyone (including casuals)
    Sadly what most hardcore players mean when they say casual friendly is worse gear than everyone else really fast rather than almost as good gear as everyone else but really slow which is how it should be.

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by LazarusLong View Post
    You won't charge jack shit. It is you who will need our services, not the other way around.
    Why?

    The items you can make are going to be on par. It's the crafting mats that will be rare not the crafters.

  6. #146
    The Lightbringer Nymrohd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celement View Post
    Why?

    The items you can make are going to be on par. It's the crafting mats that will be rare not the crafters.
    That remains to be seen. The crafting specializations go very deep. You need MANY points just to unlock the crafts and the best crafts will require crafters with every possible skill bonus. The only crafting mats that might be rare will be the one from Mythic raiding; crafting mats from M+ or Heroic raids will be anything but. At the same time, Mythic raid items likely will need crafters maxed out for that specific slot and that won't be common.

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Celement View Post
    Why?

    The items you can make are going to be on par. It's the crafting mats that will be rare not the crafters.
    Because the crafter likely gets no benefit from crafting your item, but you do.

  8. #148
    The Lightbringer Nymrohd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by overjoyed-goose View Post
    Because the crafter likely gets no benefit from crafting your item, but you do.
    Crafter gets crafting skill ups.

  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellobolis View Post
    so in FFIV you have to do dungeons for craft mats, but in wow you have to do dungeons and it's bad? the gems presumably also dont just appear in your mailbox and presumably aren't all from solo content? and then just like in wow, only 1-2 slots are ever BIS from crafting, but there thats cool and in wow its bad? you didn't say how to upgrade the gear to BIS, so i'm just going to assume it requires stuff from the raid since the previous tier required dungeon mats and you didn't mention anything about solo/world content at all.

    cool that you do not have to get recipies or level the profession itself though, wouldn't mind that in wow either since it's mostly just busywork 95% of the time, cool profession quest to unlock recipies are quite rare.

    your ESO example sounds a bit extreme, you make it sound like gear from raiding/pvp/etc is obsolete in that game. and then it only takes a day orso to get that gear on top of it? guess the core player progression must be in other systems in that game?
    Normal dungeons can give the mats and there version of gems can be outright bought if you have the material..Thaaat drops like candy and is even a bonus for tanking ir healing at times.

    It's insanely casual friendly..And more like an evolved version of wraths gearing.

  10. #150
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinpachi View Post
    To answer the question, there IS NO point. If you can't make and sell gear that's equivalent to end game quality, don't bother.
    lol what?
    This has never been true.
    1- In dragonflight you can do that
    2- even if you couldnt, people still buy gear for their alts, to get a head start, for transmog, for countless reasons
    3- man alchemy and cooking must make ZERO fucking money, they can't make any equivalent end game quality gear... poor them.

  11. #151
    People still not getting it despite being told a few times.

    The crafting system is just an extended bad luck protection capped at 5 items, its not there for free end game gear.

    Its there, for when 1 month in the new tier you are stuck with last tier Weapon/Shield because one refuses to drop and you dont like the fact you have fallen behind, therefor you can now craft one if you wish to.

    It will be perfect for alts, and for early gearing stages when a weapon refuses to drop and similar things, for some thats the first week, for the average true casual, thats the first few months.

    No you wont mine for 2 hours and get a free <maximum item level of the season> because you wish it was like that, no its not irrelevant, accept the game is the same the last 18 years and stop trying to magically change it, or quit and stick to the other ones if you wish to "punish Blizzard".

    It gets really exhausting reading the same thing on repeat, expecting Mythic gear outside of relevant content.
    Last edited by potis; 2022-08-07 at 08:57 PM.

  12. #152
    Titan Sorrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lathspell View Post
    Badge gear in Wrath for example was normal raid ilvl or lower. There was no way to buy max ilvl gear or get it as a non raider. Now we can get normal raid ilvl gear from doing world content, get one almost heroic raid piece of crafted gear, get higher than mythic ilvl legendaries (lower in s4 though), base mythic raid ilvl gear available from puggable group content. It's way more casual friendly to get max ilvl gear right now in SL than it was in Wrath.
    Also remember lfr and mythic did not exist eo birmal was .closer to heroic gear tiday

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Caprias View Post
    Casual players and months long progression
    Why not it worked in wrath and works in ffxiv.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    Literally never. Some ignorant person gonna start talking abt badges, ignoring the fact that it took months to save up for 1 piece and you could only buy 4-5 relevant pieces. Some being pieces such at trinkets that weren't actually good for ur spec, or pieces with or without hit/expertise that you wouldn't wear because of that.
    And yoy act like that wasn't ok/a good system. Maybe nit fir you but for many of us it was great

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Celement View Post
    Why?

    The items you can make are going to be on par. It's the crafting mats that will be rare not the crafters.
    Because you don't need bop materials to progress with the crafting. And crafting mats won't be rare, it's literally the alternative to badges.

  14. #154
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    Gotta laugh at the very notion that scrubs don't get boosted continuously through shit all the time to get gear anyway. To say nothing of monkeys who play some popular spec to get carried through higher keys for free, not that I'd ever worry about that myself but I know it happens. Also throwing out there that even the most braindead and lazy player can get lucky in their vaults a few times and get amazing gear anyway.

    All of this happens. You know it happens. Who cares if people craft good gear anyway? All the sweaters craft everything they can anyway to fill all the slots and then do a gorillion split runs and then sell boosts to baddies to make that money back later. It's a farce. Outside of that pointless race, people just run whatever the fuck they want and get gear from it accordingly. What grand and illustrious system is preserved by random noobs crafting shit? Is it so different from some scrub buying boosts?
    Paladin Bash has spoken.

  15. #155
    Herald of the Titans Daffan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echo of Soul View Post
    Sadly what most hardcore players mean when they say casual friendly is worse gear than everyone else really fast rather than almost as good gear as everyone else but really slow which is how it should be.
    How does this even work though, because the next patch comes out and invalidates all ur effort before you're finished in the latter scenario.
    Content drought is a combination of catchup mechanics and no new content.

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Daffan View Post
    How does this even work though, because the next patch comes out and invalidates all ur effort before you're finished in the latter scenario.
    Just like it does for everyone else? Sounds fair to me.

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Daffan View Post
    How does this even work though, because the next patch comes out and invalidates all ur effort before you're finished in the latter scenario.
    Castle Nathria opened December 8th
    Sanctum of Domination opened July 6th
    Sepulcher of the First Ones opened March 8th

    that is about 7 month for Nathria, 8 months for Sanctum and 6 months for Sepulcher,

    half a year should be enough time to slowly work towards a goal and have a bit of time utilizing that gear for 2-3 IDs.
    The above mentioned remarks, ideas and notions are simply my thought on this topic. I do not wish to aggravate, denounce or criticize anyone who, for whatever reason, may disagree.

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by Toppy View Post
    Except Ion has outright stated that the crafted gear will only be at a raid level IF you're already raiding.
    I mean, duh.

    You want raiding level gear for... mining? Like, here, you've picked up a lot of ore, here's your mythic Jailer level gear?
    Of course you need to do raid-level content if you want raid-level gear. What else would you need raid-level gear for if not for raid-level content? Did I miss some obscure crit breakpoints required for Herbalism?

    What is the point of wanting the best gear if you're not doing the content that requires the best gear in the first place?

  19. #159
    Titan Sorrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gasparde View Post
    I mean, duh.

    You want raiding level gear for... mining? Like, here, you've picked up a lot of ore, here's your mythic Jailer level gear?
    Of course you need to do raid-level content if you want raid-level gear. What else would you need raid-level gear for if not for raid-level content? Did I miss some obscure crit breakpoints required for Herbalism?

    What is the point of wanting the best gear if you're not doing the content that requires the best gear in the first place?
    The feeling of progression, easier time farming old raids, easier time in the open world(as in can pull more or do things faster) annd it just gives people a goal to work towards which in and of itself can be a great motivator.

    It's not that it's needed and more just feels good even if it takes months to get it.

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Sorrior View Post
    It's not that it's needed and more just feels good even if it takes months to get it.
    That... doesn'T make sense.
    You don't need mythic crafting gear for that. When there's a new patch you'll get higher ilvl crafting gear, normal or heroic level, whatever, and you can work towards that - and compared to the previous season, that gives you your progress, speeds things up, makes shit easier. Then, 6 months later, they bring out a new patch and you get to craft the +20 ilvl heroic stuff from that patch - you'll again have made a leap in power now.

    There is absolutely 0 reason for you to have mythic gear if you're not doing mythic content. Just like everyone else you'll grow in power from patch to patch, you'll just not grow to the exact same level - simply because you don't need to be at that level. You'll be showered in loot that makes every content you could be doing trivial anyways, and comes next patch you'll get a free 20 ilvls on top of that. If you're not a cutting edge raider racing against the clock... you can just wait for that next 2% dmg increase.

    Like, it's not like I'm opposed to you getting that shit, it's just that I don't see why you'd want it so badly. And if there's no reason as to why you need it, but instead it's simply just wanting it... then that's simply you wanting the game to change to something that it isn't and hasn't set out to be for like a decade now - in which case you're setting yourself up for disappointment.

    You'll get your profession progression with power increases and shit to work towards, that's all gonna be there. You're simply still gonna be 10 ilvls behind they guys killing mythic Jailer. I don't see how that's gonna be a problem when your main form of content is picking flowers and farming Nighthold normal - at that point you'Re doing 10 year old content, you can wait another couple months before they up the free catchup ilvl shit.

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