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  1. #1

    What's the point of the crafting changes if the rewards dont change?

    Looking through the crafting changes, and while I am glad they are adding some depth to the system as a whole, I am wondering if this will actually change anything. Hasn't Ion already stated that the crafted gear you'll be able to make wont be as good as end game PvP, Mythic+ and raid gear? In other words, the end result being the same as it is now, maybe even lower depending on what they decide to go with?

    The most major problem of the crafting system wasnt that it was boring (mind you, that was a problem though), it was that it was unrewarding. And by Ion's own words, it looks like it's staying that way. I don't, and I imagine most wont, see much reason to put a bunch of time and effort into a system to get gear that'll be on par with heroic dungeon or LFR.
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  2. #2
    I believe it was supposed to give up to five raid worthy gear pieces of roughly equal quality to what you get now with the Shadowlands created category. The main difference being that you would use the new comission mechanic to create soulbound items using soulbound reagents you have gathered yourself.
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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    I believe it was supposed to give up to five raid worthy gear pieces of roughly equal quality to what you get now with the Shadowlands created category. The main difference being that you would use the new comission mechanic to create soulbound items using soulbound reagents you have gathered yourself.
    Except Ion has outright stated that the crafted gear will only be at a raid level IF you're already raiding. You need gear from raiding to make said gear. And that gear will also be BoP.
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  4. #4
    Agree with OP at worse you should be able craft gear for one content their higher than what you are actively clearing/progressing. Best option would be you could craft max ilvl gear (not BiS per say) via crafting and solo material gathering, opening crafting into its own mini-game/end game content/progression path.
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Toppy View Post
    Except Ion has outright stated that the crafted gear will only be at a raid level IF you're already raiding. You need gear from raiding to make said gear. And that gear will also be BoP.
    Its just a delusion system of progression, the same way Legendary crafting ended up being, people that actively play the game and have gold, dont care about it, people that dont cry about tokens and boosts.

    Crafting in DF wont be much different, you just probably will be able to get a few items from other crafters, i understood that the whole concept is:

    1)Raid and get some gear faster from crafting.

    2)Dont raid, wait for the others to be done crafting and "order" the craft from the new system that there is gonna be cause eventually no one will need the crafting materials.

    Or i misunderstood the system.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    Its just a delusion system of progression, the same way Legendary crafting ended up being, people that actively play the game and have gold, dont care about it, people that dont cry about tokens and boosts.

    Crafting in DF wont be much different, you just probably will be able to get a few items from other crafters, i understood that the whole concept is:

    1)Raid and get some gear faster from crafting.

    2)Dont raid, wait for the others to be done crafting and "order" the craft from the new system that there is gonna be cause eventually no one will need the crafting materials.

    Or i misunderstood the system.
    And therein lies the issue. The crafting system is made for raiders. They're the only ones who can take part in it at a higher level, full stop. Its not "A crafting system for everyone!" its "Raiders who craft also are getting extra gear"
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Toppy View Post
    Except Ion has outright stated that the crafted gear will only be at a raid level IF you're already raiding. You need gear from raiding to make said gear. And that gear will also be BoP.
    that's how it's always been with crafted gear. it requires drops from the raid itself.

    altho i think i heard something that you can now sell your BoP craft meterials/gear through AH workorders? so a nonraider can just buy the best gear with gold?

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellobolis View Post
    that's how it's always been with crafted gear. it requires drops from the raid itself.

    altho i think i heard something that you can now sell your BoP craft meterials/gear through AH workorders? so a nonraider can just buy the best gear with gold?
    Yes, I know how thats always been.

    Thus the title and body of the thread "What's the point of the crafting changes if the rewards dont change? "
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Toppy View Post
    Yes, I know how thats always been.

    Thus the title and body of the thread "What's the point of the crafting changes if the rewards dont change? "
    i mean often times the raid materials were BoE so you could just buy them if you didn't raid? and now the workorders?

    i'm all for also making the craft materials drop from M+/PvP/etc, but surely you agree that the best crafting materials should come from the hardest content (or take a longer time to get with easier content)?

    the rewards aren't going to be better than mythic raid ilvl other than maybe 1-2 special pieces, not sure what you can really change there. though obviously the fact that you can choose the secondaries will be reason enough for many people to use the system.
    Last edited by Hellobolis; 2022-07-30 at 03:45 PM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Toppy View Post
    Yes, I know how thats always been.

    Thus the title and body of the thread "What's the point of the crafting changes if the rewards dont change? "
    The point is to make crafting a decent source of gear, the rewards do change, you'll be able to make items with the highest ilvl in the game, or very close to it

    obviously it won't be a welfare system, you already have the weekly vault for that and people already do not deserve this, doing a +15 should not award mythic raid ilvl gear, it's extremely disproportionate to the low effort required

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Toppy View Post
    And therein lies the issue. The crafting system is made for raiders. They're the only ones who can take part in it at a higher level, full stop. Its not "A crafting system for everyone!" its "Raiders who craft also are getting extra gear"
    Yes, the game hasnt changed and wont change, the whole concept of the game is "storytelling through raids", thats where the gear is.

    Now this system they are introducing is basically TBC system crafting but server wide so anyone complaining is a hypocrite cause this has already been in game, and has been in the secondary game 2 years now and no one complained.

    From quickly reading it seems its gonna be something like.

    Have the gear at normal raiding item level yourself after leveling your profession (Same as it is now, freebie normal gear in Zereth Mortis).

    Order Ingredient 1 that requires Raiding drop and an enchanter as example.

    Order Ingredient 2 that requires raiding drop and an Scribe as example.

    Crafter Blacksmith with the skill to upgrade your Normal to Heroic item, repeat the above for Mythic, but apparently in order to actually get the Mythic item level (Probably increasements of 2 ilvls?) you must have a top unlocked crafter + extra items to guarantee the "Tier 5 Legendary" aka Mythic item.

    Something like that basically.

    To me it sounds pointlessly exhausting but i can see the system work for the more slower RPG seeker.
    Last edited by potis; 2022-07-30 at 03:54 PM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Toppy View Post
    Except Ion has outright stated that the crafted gear will only be at a raid level IF you're already raiding. You need gear from raiding to make said gear. And that gear will also be BoP.
    But that's a great system, isn't it? Crafting will be very useful then and it will ever reward you magic level gear, if you provide mythic level reagents.
    If that is how it works, it's literally the best possible system.

  13. #13
    Honestly this new crafting system is going to be useless garbage if they don't remove the WoW token. Whales are the only ones who will be able to afford the prices people are going to charge.
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    Honestly this new crafting system is going to be useless garbage if they don't remove the WoW token. Whales are the only ones who will be able to afford the prices people are going to charge.
    only very early on when materials are scarce. just look at how the price of legendaries completely crashes after a month orso.

    and just like with legendaries, nobody is actually going to pay the absurd prices they initially ask since nobody actually needs them THAT badly.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellobolis View Post
    only very early on when materials are scarce. just look at how the price of legendaries completely crashes after a month orso.

    and just like with legendaries, nobody is actually going to pay the absurd prices they initially ask since nobody actually needs them THAT badly.
    We shall see, I still think the token is going to change some how, a lot of the things they are doing to make the core game better would be even better without the token.
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    The point is to make crafting a decent source of gear, the rewards do change, you'll be able to make items with the highest ilvl in the game, or very close to it

    obviously it won't be a welfare system, you already have the weekly vault for that and people already do not deserve this, doing a +15 should not award mythic raid ilvl gear, it's extremely disproportionate to the low effort required
    Quote Originally Posted by Accendor View Post
    But that's a great system, isn't it? Crafting will be very useful then and it will ever reward you magic level gear, if you provide mythic level reagents.
    If that is how it works, it's literally the best possible system.


    You realize thats how it already works, right? You raid for the raid crafting material to up the ilvl.


    Everyone in this thread keeps reposting variations of the same thing which is explaining how crafting currently works.


    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    Yes, the game hasnt changed and wont change, the whole concept of the game is "storytelling through raids", thats where the gear is.

    Now this system they are introducing is basically TBC system crafting but server wide so anyone complaining is a hypocrite cause this has already been in game, and has been in the secondary game 2 years now and no one complained.

    From quickly reading it seems its gonna be something like.

    Have the gear at normal raiding item level yourself after leveling your profession (Same as it is now, freebie normal gear in Zereth Mortis).

    Order Ingredient 1 that requires Raiding drop and an enchanter as example.

    Order Ingredient 2 that requires raiding drop and an Scribe as example.

    Crafter Blacksmith with the skill to upgrade your Normal to Heroic item, repeat the above for Mythic, but apparently in order to actually get the Mythic item level (Probably increasements of 2 ilvls?) you must have a top unlocked crafter + extra items to guarantee the "Tier 5 Legendary" aka Mythic item.

    Something like that basically.

    To me it sounds pointlessly exhausting but i can see the system work for the more slower RPG seeker.
    Not how the TBC system works. TBC system you can buy material via vendors. Also as far as I can tell the specilization (in DF) does little else but make crafting a little easier, it doesnt improve on ilvls.

    TBC system allowed a great deal more ability to craft without raiding. The materials could be got via dungeoning. It was certainly easier if you raided, but it wasn't the one method. It was casual friendly.
    Last edited by Toppy; 2022-07-30 at 05:29 PM.
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Toppy View Post
    Not how the TBC system works. TBC system you can buy material via vendors. Also as far as I can tell the specilization does little else but make crafting a little easier, it doesnt improve on ilvls.

    TBC system allowed a great deal more ability to craft without raiding. The materials could be got via dungeoning. It was certainly easier if you raided, but it wasn't the one method. It was casual friendly.
    Not for the weapons, the 90% of the damage of melee classes with how the system was, apart from like 1 cloth set, and later Spellfire set when it was buffed and used in TBC classic, and thats it.

    TBC system was literally, craft Tier 1, Craft tier 2 from dungeons, stare at the corner for Tier 3 cause you had to raid SSC/TK, or wait for the guilds to done gearing, and buy it from them months after.

    Nether Vortex was added to vendors in 2.4, when it was already useless.

    This is the same system with DF, eventually you either raid, or you buy it from others, but its probably gonna be a personal loot system so there is gonna be way more materials.

    Now again, i am talking as a very fast paced, faster progressing gameplay, maybe it doesnt reflect to your experience, but thats how it was for TBC and this new DF system, clearly works exactly like that.

    But as i said, to me it seems they added some sort of RPG gamble element with rate of success and Tiers, it means when you craft a new Mythic tier level item, unless its perfectly maxed out it has a chance to proc as Tier 4, and have less item levels? We will see.
    Last edited by potis; 2022-07-30 at 05:26 PM.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    Not for the weapons, the 90% of the damage of melee classes with how the system was, apart from like 1 cloth set, and later Spellfire set when it was buffed and used in TBC classic, and thats it.

    TBC system was literally, craft Tier 1, Craft tier 2 from dungeons, stare at the corner for Tier 3 cause you had to raid SSC/TK, or wait for the guilds to done gearing, and buy it from them months after.

    Nether Vortex was added to vendors in 2.4, when it was already useless.

    This is the same system with DF, eventually you either raid, or you buy it from others, but its probably gonna be a personal loot system so there is gonna be way more materials.

    Now again, i am talking as a very fast paced, faster progressing gameplay, maybe it doesnt reflect to your experience, but thats how it was for TBC and this new DF system, clearly works exactly like that.

    But as i said, to me it seems they added some sort of RPG gamble element with rate of success and Tiers, it means when you craft a new Mythic tier level item, unless its perfectly maxed out it has a chance to proc as Tier 4, and have less item levels? We will see.
    Should also note that there wasnt gigantic ilvl gaps, so even by your own explanation the TBC system, without raiding was one tier behind. Because you essentially had three tiers: normal, dungeon, raiding.

    Whereas now: Normal, dungeoning, lfr, normal raiding, heroic, mythic (and various mythic+). You are, fundamentally, still describing very different systems. This is before you even get into the fact that from TBC till MoP we had a badge system in place as well. All these things devaluing crafting even more.

    EDIT:

    THis is of course assuming that the raid crafting mats will not be BoP in DF, if they are then its a worse system than we've had in years.

    EDIT 2: Also at no point did I even say TBC crafting was all that great. Crafting has always been a sore point of WoW.
    Last edited by Toppy; 2022-07-30 at 05:40 PM.
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Toppy View Post
    Except Ion has outright stated that the crafted gear will only be at a raid level IF you're already raiding. You need gear from raiding to make said gear. And that gear will also be BoP.
    The idea behind is that raiders will gather unique raid resources, etc. and then you can buy the gear directly from them. You purchase a craft essentially and they make for you a BOP mythic raid ilevel piece of gear.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Toppy View Post
    THis is of course assuming that the raid crafting mats will not be BoP in DF, if they are then its a worse system than we've had in years.
    They are BOP, you buy the work order from the Auction House or something like that, no?

    Also mentioning anything below Normal Raiding is also irrelevant, Blizzard clearly stated you can get 5 normal raid items at least from the new crafting profession and those 5 can reach Mythic tier.

    The only thing that seems different to me is time of acquisition and RPG elements, thats it with the crafting, it sounds good on paper but its probably gonna be terrible.

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