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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by Demithio View Post
    Blizzard hasn't understood, or chose to start ignoring, what drove people away over 10 years ago. None of this is new. The great "drive away" exodus happened many years ago, and all you're seeing is the remnants of the stale cake crumbs.
    Can people stop with this? No one thing drives the people away. People quit the game for 1,000's of reasons. Claiming that x drove players away is as disingenuous as it gets.

  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by Theangryone View Post
    1. It’s not a nerf if the game is in alpha.
    I think you hit it on the head here. I would expand it to include Beta as well. Both are test environments, and are not the final Live version we will all enjoy.

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    Can people stop with this? No one thing drives the people away. People quit the game for 1,000's of reasons. Claiming that x drove players away is as disingenuous as it gets.
    Not the whole truth. You have a point that certain other elements had a play in it, which is already obvious. However, there is absolutely no denying that WoW took a sizable player dump in rapid order during a certain transition in content and gameplay design. I was actually there to witness it. I saw and heard the disgust from a multitude of players. Exactly what impact it would have this many years later is a toss up - it has been recreated into a vastly different idea at this point. However, I do believe the game would have had a lot more retention and far less frustration if Blizzard would have not gotten lazy and cookie cutter with the design.

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by Demithio View Post
    Not the whole truth. You have a point that certain other elements had a play in it, which is already obvious. However, there is absolutely no denying that WoW took a sizable player dump in rapid order during a certain transition in content and gameplay design. I was actually there to witness it. I saw and heard the disgust from a multitude of players. Exactly what impact it would have this many years later is a toss up - it has been recreated into a vastly different idea at this point. However, I do believe the game would have had a lot more retention and far less frustration if Blizzard would have not gotten lazy and cookie cutter with the design.
    Yeah there is denying it. People leave for many reasons. There were many thing sgoing on during that "sizeable player dump" that caused players to leave. It is beyond absurd to say any one particular thing caused players to leave because you cannot prove why all players left.

  5. #205
    Nerfing Soar shows that Blizzard understands streamers and forums arent what matters.

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by Frozen Death Knight View Post
    Hahaha! That's rich. If they really knew what they were doing people wouldn't have quit in the first place. The devs have actively done all in their power to drive people away with their decision making. They are completely clueless and the ones that have a clue are not in charge to make any difference. This is just one out of several examples of how they do not know how to develop a game without micromanaging people's experiences with the game. It is tiring and people are absolutely sick of it.
    what is rich is thinking YOUR PERSONAL SUBJECTIVE OPINION is some universal truth...
    you are free to have that opinion, but its just that, your opinion, and at leat partialy provable false, like "people wouldnt have quit" - wtf you smoke?! people were quiting wow since vanila... not to mention some people quit for reasons that have to do with REAL LIFE (i know, shocking for you but other people do have life outside of wow) not with the game itself...

  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    Yeah there is denying it. People leave for many reasons. There were many thing sgoing on during that "sizeable player dump" that caused players to leave. It is beyond absurd to say any one particular thing caused players to leave because you cannot prove why all players left.
    Sure you can’t point to a one specific change, but you most certainly can point to the massive broad change of where they wanted the overall game design to go.

    They specifically wanted to take the game to a competitive place. They even outright outlined it during cata. It was their main reason for the massive massive change in direction to how they dealt with pvp for example. People always point to things like raids or class balance in terms of why they stated disliking the game, which may be one element, but another massive element that not a lot of people talk about it just how drastically they changed the pace of pvp from a fun fast paced game to a slllow and boring and cd reliant game.

    Sure maybe someone can’t point to one change, but they very clearly took the game in a completely different direction during this drop off. So acting like it’s just the players getting bored of the game and organically leaving is also extremely disingenuous as well

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by klaps_05 View Post
    Nerfing Soar shows that Blizzard understands streamers and forums arent what matters.
    What matters then?

  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by Somic View Post
    Sure you can’t point to a one specific change, but you most certainly can point to the massive broad change of where they wanted the overall game design to go.

    They specifically wanted to take the game to a competitive place. They even outright outlined it during cata. It was their main reason for the massive massive change in direction to how they dealt with pvp for example. People always point to things like raids or class balance in terms of why they stated disliking the game, which may be one element, but another massive element that not a lot of people talk about it just how drastically they changed the pace of pvp from a fun fast paced game to a slllow and boring and cd reliant game.

    Sure maybe someone can’t point to one change, but they very clearly took the game in a completely different direction during this drop off. So acting like it’s just the players getting bored of the game and organically leaving is also extremely disingenuous as well
    I NEVER said they left because they got bored. I said they left for 1,000's of reasons. Youare the one who keeps insisting they left because of only one reason. Some people left because they were bored, some people left because they got older and were no longer interested. Some left to start families. SOme add too many committments to still be able to play the game.I can go on and on and on. As I said it is completely diisingenuous to say player all left because of x because that is not provable in any way. That is nothing but projection of ones opinion to declare themselves right. There is not one single reason that every one left.

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    I NEVER said they left because they got bored. I said they left for 1,000's of reasons. Youare the one who keeps insisting they left because of only one reason. Some people left because they were bored, some people left because they got older and were no longer interested. Some left to start families. SOme add too many committments to still be able to play the game.I can go on and on and on. As I said it is completely diisingenuous to say player all left because of x because that is not provable in any way. That is nothing but projection of ones opinion to declare themselves right. There is not one single reason that every one left.
    First of all, I’m a new poster to this subject so I’m not “continuously” saying a thing.

    And I said I agree that people left for a ton of reasons, but if you aren’t going to put blame int the game itself for a giant number of those people leaving then you’re being dishonest

  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by Somic View Post
    First of all, I’m a new poster to this subject so I’m not “continuously” saying a thing.

    And I said I agree that people left for a ton of reasons, but if you aren’t going to put blame int the game itself for a giant number of those people leaving then you’re being dishonest
    I never specifically stated they left for any one reason. All I said was that people left for many reasons. YOU and others are the ones trying to insist they left for a specific reason. You never even read what I wrote.

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    I never specifically stated they left for any one reason. All I said was that people left for many reasons. YOU and others are the ones trying to insist they left for a specific reason. You never even read what I wrote.
    Are you even fucking reading what I’m saying at all? Because that’s not what I have insisted even a little bit.

    I’m telling you that putting the main reasonS behind excuses like “people organically left” like when you said people have kids, get bored bored, etc… is being dishonest and pushes blame away from the game itself. When it’s quite clear the game made many many many many many of those reasonS why people left.
    Last edited by Somic; 2022-08-07 at 02:43 PM.

  12. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by Somic View Post
    Are you even fucking reading what I’m saying at all? Because that’s not what I have insisted even a little bit.

    I’m telling you that putting the main reasonS behind excuses like “people organically left” like when you said people have kids, get bored bored, etc… is being dishonest and pushes blame away from the game itself. When it’s quite clear the game made many many many many many of those reasonS why people left.
    Agagin, you declaring something as the main reason doesn't make it so. You have NO IDEA why every player left, so you cannot in anyway say what the main reason was. You continue to ignore what I actually wrote and put words in my mouth that I never said. Many people absolutely did leave for reasons I mentioned. To discount that shows you are being dishonest. You are trying to put the blame all on the game and that is just not true.

    You are going to continue to insist that your narrative is fact while refusing to read what I originally wrote, so we are done here. You won't except any reason that isn't the game for people leaving it. No point arguing with that kind of closed mindedness.

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    Agagin, you declaring something as the main reason doesn't make it so. You have NO IDEA why every player left, so you cannot in anyway say what the main reason was. You continue to ignore what I actually wrote and put words in my mouth that I never said. Many people absolutely did leave for reasons I mentioned. To discount that shows you are being dishonest. You are trying to put the blame all on the game and that is just not true.

    You are going to continue to insist that your narrative is fact while refusing to read what I originally wrote, so we are done here. You won't except any reason that isn't the game for people leaving it. No point arguing with that kind of closed mindedness.
    The fact that so many left to play FFXVI pretty much proves that this is not the case. They left because of the direction the game was heading. They wouldn’t start a whole new game and leave behind all those achievements and years of work on a whim either.

    The game went in a bad direction and we want to see change. Change that only comes with the devs realizing the majority don’t like their design philosophy. Claiming that everyone left because of real life just kills any chance at it.
    There is still hope it corrects course in Dragonflight. This is just a stark reminder of why the game went bad. It’s over-thought at every corner. It’s the new devs inability to follow what the old guard inherently knew. Games should be FUN.

  14. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    Agagin, you declaring something as the main reason doesn't make it so. You have NO IDEA why every player left, so you cannot in anyway say what the main reason was. You continue to ignore what I actually wrote and put words in my mouth that I never said. Many people absolutely did leave for reasons I mentioned. To discount that shows you are being dishonest. You are trying to put the blame all on the game and that is just not true.

    You are going to continue to insist that your narrative is fact while refusing to read what I originally wrote, so we are done here. You won't except any reason that isn't the game for people leaving it. No point arguing with that kind of closed mindedness.
    I didn’t ignore your point that you wrote, I fucking acknowledged it specifically and I said it’s idiotic or dishonest.

    And yes, when a massive amount of players leave like that in droves over and over and over again like what happened in cata, mop, and wod, you 100% can blame the game itself. Even implying that the amounts of players leaving was because of things similar to “people had kids” is fucking moronic. If the game is good, people will continue to play it or people will continue to join. I’m not saying there was one speicifc change I can point to, I’m saying there’s a fucking plethora of changes that the GAME did to drive people away.

    This is common god damn sense. If you can’t acknowledge that then you’re either dishonest out of bias or you aren’t intelligent enough to have a conversation with.

  15. #215
    If Soar came out with this "nerf" already applied and nobody had ever seen the faster version would anyone be saying "Make Soar faster it's too slow!"? Because I really really don't think anyone would say that.

    The only reason people care is because something in an alpha was deemed too good and fixed. Bitching about it is absolutely ridiculous.

    It was obviously a good change, there's no reason one race should be twice as fast out in the old world, that's just unnecessary. They're still significantly faster anyway, it's just not as extreme.

    I swear the people who complain about this have some kind of mental issue.

  16. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by Rucati View Post
    If Soar came out with this "nerf" already applied and nobody had ever seen the faster version would anyone be saying "Make Soar faster it's too slow!"? Because I really really don't think anyone would say that.

    The only reason people care is because something in an alpha was deemed too good and fixed. Bitching about it is absolutely ridiculous.

    It was obviously a good change, there's no reason one race should be twice as fast out in the old world, that's just unnecessary. They're still significantly faster anyway, it's just not as extreme.

    I swear the people who complain about this have some kind of mental issue.
    Easy with the ad hominems. Else you’re the one with some mental issues. You’ve missed the entire argument. It’s a cool thing some class travels faster than others in meaningless casual content. Mages have done it forever. Why are we all of a sudden balancing old world travel speeds? Clearly teleports have to be removed now to balance the pace you can farm transmog gear with.

  17. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by sensei- View Post
    Easy with the ad hominems. Else you’re the one with some mental issues. You’ve missed the entire argument. It’s a cool thing some class travels faster than others in meaningless casual content. Mages have done it forever. Why are we all of a sudden balancing old world travel speeds? Clearly teleports have to be removed now to balance the pace you can farm transmog gear with.
    Except that argument is kind of highkey retarded. It would mean doing anything in the old world, from farming transmog to farming herbs/ore/rares/mounts/etc. would almost require being a Dracthyr. That's just really stupidly bad game design.

    And the people comparing it to Mage portals appear to have just somehow completely missed the entire point or something I guess, I don't know. If you can't figure out the difference between being able to teleport around cities versus being able to fly across zones I don't think there's anything anyone could say that could help you.

  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by Rucati View Post
    If Soar came out with this "nerf" already applied and nobody had ever seen the faster version would anyone be saying "Make Soar faster it's too slow!"? Because I really really don't think anyone would say that.

    The only reason people care is because something in an alpha was deemed too good and fixed. Bitching about it is absolutely ridiculous.

    It was obviously a good change, there's no reason one race should be twice as fast out in the old world, that's just unnecessary. They're still significantly faster anyway, it's just not as extreme.

    I swear the people who complain about this have some kind of mental issue.
    You’re right no one probably would have noticed, but that’s not really the point now is it.

    What’s the actually issue with someone going that fast in the old world? Actually answer yourself that question. When was the last time you actually were out exploring in the old world too, it’s not anywhere people actually go anyway.

  19. #219
    It's frustrating that people don't have a clue how the hell an ability works and are still trotting out the moronic "oh it's SO MUCH FASTER THAN FLYING!" crap. Flying is you mounting up, going up in the air, pointing yourself in a direction and AFKing. Soaring is NOTHING LIKE THAT. You actually have to pay attention and interact with the game to get the most out of Soar. Also it won't do jack shit for you if you don't have a good vantage point to use it off of.

  20. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by Velerios View Post
    Yes, but Paladins have right now 20% faster flying with aura, DKs too, druids can instantly switch into flying form, and even nerfed soar will be faster. It wasn't fair to begin with. So instead unlock Dragonflight in old zones, this would not only be more fun, but make it fair for everyone, it's as simple as that.

    And it's not that you could create one for yourself; because for rare-hunt you already take every advantage you have and every class that gives you an advantage, so where's the difference?
    Except that the Paladin speed buff does not stack, so if your in a guild, you most likely already have a 20% speed buff anyways.

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