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  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by Somic View Post
    So you actually do believe the argument I described?
    I believe they'd rather nerf it to be safe in the future than because of some old content bullshit.
    But even if they did, they'd never tell you that, because Blizzard never EVER speaks about future content (before anything is actually announced). They've learned it the hard way, and if they do something because of future concers, they won't tell you.

  2. #262
    Quote Originally Posted by Rageonit View Post
    I believe they'd rather nerf it to be safe in the future than because of some old content bullshit.
    But even if they did, they'd never tell you that, because Blizzard never EVER speaks about future content (before anything is actually announced). They've learned it the hard way, and if they do something because of future concers, they won't tell you.
    I'm just boggled by how you got through the captcha to get on this website

  3. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    ANd you know that how? A lot of people left the game and gaming entirely. Again, people leave for 1,000's of reasons. There is no one reason.

    Again, you know that how? Once again, projection of opinion. your statement is in no way provable. Also, you only speak for you. There is no "we".

    Again, "fun" is subjective. What you think is fun others do not and vice versa. The current deves very well know that games should be fun. What you are really saying is "They don't make the game exactly the way I want, therefore they don't know fun". A missive projection of opinion.

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    "fun" is subjective. They are not blind to fun, that is just BS because they took way what YOU found fun. Also, there hardly has been any backlash They aren't going to revert something based on a small vocal minority. Finally not caving to your demands does not = they aren't taking you seriously. People need to stop acting like the game must cater solely to them and only them.
    fun is subjective, i will give you that. but when literally all the testers say it is less fun, it's a pretty safe assumption that blizz is blind to what is fun in this case. and if you call literally every content creator, this thread, AND threads on the wow forums about this "hardly any backlash", then you are being blind. i'm fine with admitting when i'm wrong. but there is no good reason to blindly hate or blindly love blizzard. all you're blind love gets you is worse and worse expansions like we've had for 4 years (possibly 6 depending on who you ask) now.

  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by aceperson View Post
    fun is subjective, i will give you that. but when literally all the testers say it is less fun, it's a pretty safe assumption that blizz is blind to what is fun in this case. and if you call literally every content creator, this thread, AND threads on the wow forums about this "hardly any backlash", then you are being blind. i'm fine with admitting when i'm wrong. but there is no good reason to blindly hate or blindly love blizzard. all you're blind love gets you is worse and worse expansions like we've had for 4 years (possibly 6 depending on who you ask) now.
    Agagin, you are projecting your opinion. Your first statement is completely false and unprovable. NO all testers literally did not say it was less fun as moist testers play the alpha put their comments when the see bugs. Onlyy a vocal minority is claiming it is less fun. IN fact, a lot of people complaining aren;'t actually even in alpha right now.Also, your second stetment is also false and a massive projection of your opinion. Once again you speak to a vocal minority. Ih those threads you will find the ones complaining are the same 5-6 people while everyone else is calling them out. You are also completely misusing the word literally.

    That was nothing more than massive projection on your part driven by blind hate. Nothing of what you say is fact and only YOUR opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rageonit View Post
    I believe they'd rather nerf it to be safe in the future than because of some old content bullshit.
    But even if they did, they'd never tell you that, because Blizzard never EVER speaks about future content (before anything is actually announced). They've learned it the hard way, and if they do something because of future concers, they won't tell you.
    HTey don't because the player bas has repeatedly show they cannot act like adults with the info. When Blizzard announces something and then has to change it, players whine and moan "Blizzard you promised us" when they did no such thing. There is no point when the players refuse to act like adults.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vortis View Post
    When the lead developer of a game thanks a popular World of Warcraft streamer for bringing so many players to their game, that is evidence. I’m no fan of Asmomgold but I’m not going to pretend he is irrelevant either. He has been very vocal in his issues with Wow. A lot of people agree with him , so they left wow and tried FF14 when he did. You could ignore that and maybe pretend it’s not Wow that is the problem. But a lot of people, myself included, believe World of Warcraft could and should be a much better game than it currently is , it’s just moved too far from what made it so popular in the first place.
    That is not evidnce. That is a simple thank you for feedback so they can look into it. You are spinning it into what it isn't so it fits your agenda.




    There is a “we” A lot of people don’t want to see the same mistakes made over and over again. Also see above for more evidence of “we”.
    You still only speak for yourself and only yourself. There is no "we". Your opinions should be "I" not "we."



    I’m not going to claim to be the arbiter of fun. But to claim there is no general consensus on what makes things fun is just being purposefully obtuse. Going fast is fun, usually the faster = the more fun. If you need more evidence of that then I suggest you look at the many sports and recreational activities that use speed for fun.
    Being subjective does not mean it’s exclusive.
    There is no consensus. You are trying to spin a vocal minority into a consensus. It's disingenuous.

    The issue that I think the OP was trying address, it’s not the numbers or how much it was nerfed. It is just showing that the design mentality hasn’t changed.
    NO he is complaining that the devs still won't cater the game solely to him. It has to be his way or else.

    Honestly I hope everyone disagreeing is correct. And that this is just me and others overreacting to a minuscule thing that won’t matter in the future. But by looking at the past, being silent and hoping they know what’s best is a foolish endeavor. I fear this game won’t survive another “BFA or Shadowlands”.[/quote]People ahve been saying this for the past 5-6 expansions. The game continues to go on. This is nothing more than trying to validate an opinion as fact. AS has been said many times. 90% of the players won't even feel a change because they never played it at the faster speed to begin with. Just because you think it is foolish doesn't mean it is.

  5. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by KOUNTERPARTS View Post
    I was waiting to comment on this until I knew the extent of the nerf. Just saw the video comparing pre-nerf and post-nerf flight speeds where they start at that one spot in the dwarf leveling zones and fly through the underground tunnels and shit.


    The pre-nerf speed looked so fun; the post-nerf speed makes me wonder why even use Soar/Dragonriding at all now.
    Dragonriding wasnt nerfed. Soar is not dragonriding. That is an important distinction because I have seen many clueless people making this mistake.

  6. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    Agagin, you are projecting your opinion. Your first statement is completely false and unprovable. NO all testers literally did not say it was less fun as moist testers play the alpha put their comments when the see bugs. Onlyy a vocal minority is claiming it is less fun. IN fact, a lot of people complaining aren;'t actually even in alpha right now.Also, your second stetment is also false and a massive projection of your opinion. Once again you speak to a vocal minority. Ih those threads you will find the ones complaining are the same 5-6 people while everyone else is calling them out. You are also completely misusing the word literally.

    That was nothing more than massive projection on your part driven by blind hate. Nothing of what you say is fact and only YOUR opinion.

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    HTey don't because the player bas has repeatedly show they cannot act like adults with the info. When Blizzard announces something and then has to change it, players whine and moan "Blizzard you promised us" when they did no such thing. There is no point when the players refuse to act like adults.

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    That is not evidnce. That is a simple thank you for feedback so they can look into it. You are spinning it into what it isn't so it fits your agenda.




    You still only speak for yourself and only yourself. There is no "we". Your opinions should be "I" not "we."



    There is no consensus. You are trying to spin a vocal minority into a consensus. It's disingenuous.

    NO he is complaining that the devs still won't cater the game solely to him. It has to be his way or else.

    Honestly I hope everyone disagreeing is correct. And that this is just me and others overreacting to a minuscule thing that won’t matter in the future. But by looking at the past, being silent and hoping they know what’s best is a foolish endeavor. I fear this game won’t survive another “BFA or Shadowlands”.
    People ahve been saying this for the past 5-6 expansions. The game continues to go on. This is nothing more than trying to validate an opinion as fact. AS has been said many times. 90% of the players won't even feel a change because they never played it at the faster speed to begin with. Just because you think it is foolish doesn't mean it is.[/QUOTE]

    This can go back and forth forever. Since you are pretending not to understand how the internet works….let me enlighten you.
    There are things on videos called likes and views. Also most streamers have a chat along the side of their stream which they show in the video. It shows how others agree with their opinions or not. Also there is a comment section showing support for or against a video. The whole point is to share your opinion! So by reading I can see that MY opinion is shared by others! Therefore making it OUR collective opinion.
    So unless you are claiming I am personally writing every post here, in comments on videos of Asmongold ,Preach and Bellular, then again you are just ignoring any evidence proving its a held by more than just me. Alot of people have lost faith in Blizzard and are being overly critical because we have been burnt too many times now.

    Repeating how my opinion cannot be agreed with and then taken on as someone else’s is just childish. Opinions change, sometimes because some one smarter enlightens you. I am not a spoiled child who thinks only his opinion matters. I am also not going to stay silent to appease a couple vocal shills that think being critical of a multi billion dollar company like Blizzard is somehow stupid or makes me a narcissist.

    Also, claiming those of us that have critical opinions are the vocal minority is just you projecting your own opinion onto us. It’s a petty stance to take. No evidence needed.

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    I also wanted to add that yes people have been claiming every expansion is the death knell. But also every expansion since wrath has lost subscribers. So obviously that’s not a good trend.



    Eventually it will be the end. That’s why I am speaking up now. I love the game and want it to grow.

  7. #267
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    For their "data on millions of players" they time and again keep making absolutely idiotic decisions that anyone who gives even a bit of damn can see going to be absolute shit.
    Again, all you have are anecdotes. No matter how popular a youtuber is, he's still just one anecdote. Also, the logical fallacy you just did is appeal to numbers, trying to claim that other people agree with you, as evidence to support your argument.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frozen Death Knight View Post
    Hahaha! That's rich. If they really knew what they were doing people wouldn't have quit in the first place. The devs have actively done all in their power to drive people away with their decision making. They are completely clueless and the ones that have a clue are not in charge to make any difference. This is just one out of several examples of how they do not know how to develop a game without micromanaging people's experiences with the game. It is tiring and people are absolutely sick of it.
    If a product is good then people wouldn't stop using it? THAT'S the argument you're using?

    Then the tinfoil that the devs are actively trying to make the game worse? With all the nerdrage of Blizzard apparently being greedy to then try to say they're trying to sabotage their product is ridiculous.
    The most difficult thing to do is accept that there is nothing wrong with things you don't like and accept that people can like things you don't.

  8. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    Again, all you have are anecdotes. No matter how popular a youtuber is, he's still just one anecdote. Also, the logical fallacy you just did is appeal to numbers, trying to claim that other people agree with you, as evidence to support your argument.





    Argumentum ad Populum. Saying people agree with you is NOT the fallacy. These are thrown around way too much. Saying I am correct because people agree with me would be it. It’s not a fallacy to claim you hold a shared opinion.

    Again, I am not claiming to be correct because everyone agrees with me. I’m saying there is a portion of the player base who are worried about the design philosophy of the devs. It’s not just MY opinion. Not claiming it’s right or wrong, just that it’s SHARED. I hope I am wrong and the game ends up great. But you cannot blame anyonefor being worried.

    I do not understand why being critical is so bothersome to certain people. If the discussion hurts your fragile ego, don’t read it.

  9. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    I think it's dumb change with dumb justification (especially Chromie Time, for the whole 2 levels of Evoker they will use it, if at all).

    The bottom line is what exactly 960% speed actually broke there? Their reasoning being: "Dracthyr have a drastic efficiency advantage over characters of other races when doing non-Dragon Isles content, whether that’s Chromie Time quests, clearing old raids for transmog, pet battling, etc" is frankly does not even soar, because quite honestly - who the fuck really cares you get to old raid or pet battle faster once per 5 mins.

    And I am not even sure why they even said "Chromie Time" given Drakthyr don't need it at all and one would need to go out of its way to even do it.

    The only reasonable thing that could be is PvP, but then - you could limit it for PvP only and be done with it, even if it can be used in BGs to begin with, which I doubt.

    ---

    So yes, as I see it - it is completely a "fun detected" moment for very very weak reason.
    Same. It's their reasoning behind the nerf that's ridiculous.

  10. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by Vortis View Post
    Argumentum ad Populum. Saying people agree with you is NOT the fallacy. These are thrown around way too much. Saying I am correct because people agree with me would be it. It’s not a fallacy to claim you hold a shared opinion.

    Again, I am not claiming to be correct because everyone agrees with me. I’m saying there is a portion of the player base who are worried about the design philosophy of the devs. It’s not just MY opinion. Not claiming it’s right or wrong, just that it’s SHARED. I hope I am wrong and the game ends up great. But you cannot blame anyonefor being worried.

    I do not understand why being critical is so bothersome to certain people. If the discussion hurts your fragile ego, don’t read it.
    It's less to do with being critical and more to do with being critical about the wrong fucking things. Whining about this Soar change is so fucking pointless because we're here in a 20+ page discussion thread where people claim that an ability they never got to try in its unnerfed form has irrevocably impacted their gaming experience in a negative way. Meanwhile, there are class trees, talents, dungeons and questing in desperate need of feedback that gets completely fucking ignored because we're all too busy telling the devs that they're dumb and stupid and mean and dumb and stupid for making this change.

  11. #271
    Theres no point to this nerf. Its old content and there's portals that takes a few minute flight away from anywhere you want to go anyway. The soar ability also has a pretty long cooldown anyway so what would this be breaking?

  12. #272
    Quote Originally Posted by Vortis View Post
    Argumentum ad Populum. Saying people agree with you is NOT the fallacy. These are thrown around way too much. Saying I am correct because people agree with me would be it. It’s not a fallacy to claim you hold a shared opinion.

    Again, I am not claiming to be correct because everyone agrees with me. I’m saying there is a portion of the player base who are worried about the design philosophy of the devs. It’s not just MY opinion. Not claiming it’s right or wrong, just that it’s SHARED. I hope I am wrong and the game ends up great. But you cannot blame anyonefor being worried.

    I do not understand why being critical is so bothersome to certain people. If the discussion hurts your fragile ego, don’t read it.
    The player base is comprised of hundreds of micro-audience who are often demanding opposite things. No matter what Blizzard does someone is going to be mad. Saying other people share your opinion is obvious and does nothing to advance your argument, cause there is a group out there, possibly larger possibly smaller, who thinks the game would be trash if your ideas were taken. That's why appeals to numbers is completely useless in arguments about something so subjective imho.

    It's like those posts when Blizzard releases a buff or nerf or some other change and some guy tries to be edgy and say something along the lines of "nobody asked for this." That's bordering on statistically impossible. You can be damned certain there was someones who complained that soar was too good compared to dragonriding and Blizzard agreed with them and made it only slightly better.
    Last edited by cparle87; 2022-08-10 at 11:02 PM.
    The most difficult thing to do is accept that there is nothing wrong with things you don't like and accept that people can like things you don't.

  13. #273
    Quote Originally Posted by khazmodan View Post
    Oh no, a dead game changed something in a way that would not have saved it anyway. Geez guys, it's time to let go of WoW and either find a better game or do something that matters like finding a good woman and having a family.
    my brother in christ, why are you still here then?

  14. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    If a product is good then people wouldn't stop using it? THAT'S the argument you're using?

    Then the tinfoil that the devs are actively trying to make the game worse? With all the nerdrage of Blizzard apparently being greedy to then try to say they're trying to sabotage their product is ridiculous.
    The reception and numbers for Warlords of Draenor, Battle for Azeroth, and especially Shadowlands just speak for themselves. You can sugarcoat it if you like, but it does not change that WoW's popularity is at an all time low, which is directly caused by the devs' inability to design the game in a way that is appealing to the people that left.

    Shadowlands was an absolute disaster. The complete ruination I alone bore witness over 6 months of playing the expansion was absolutely staggering. No amount of "tinfoil" arguments will change how absolutely inept the devs have been and continue to be with making the game fun.

  15. #275
    People still thought that fun was allowed in wow ?

    Blizz, like always , are retarded beyond belief, nerfing all the things that didn't impacted shit and was just plain fun to use.

    Druids flight form, vulpera tent are 1 billion times more impactfull for "farming old content",yet they weren't nerfed, because it's not fun to use, just efficient.

    Soar was nerfed to the ground because it was fun, because blizz straight up hate you being remotely happy.

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