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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    You realize nothing happened, right? China has a lot of bluster but very little follow-through; they do not want to risk their entire economy by pissing off the rest of the world.
    but to Nancy it was really important that she "put them in their place". which IDK what the fuck else that is supposed to mean besides doing the exact same saber rattling china did. except this is a US politician that initiated it, for some reason.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    but to Nancy it was really important that she "put them in their place". which IDK what the fuck else that is supposed to mean besides doing the exact same saber rattling china did. except this is a US politician that initiated it, for some reason.
    Pelosi/the US threatened to shoot down Chinese planes and start an armed conflict?

  3. #103
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwarven View Post
    She's 82.
    And still smarter and more lucid than most of the GQP combined.
    Plenty of people have been holding their breath waiting for me to fail. I think they all suffocated years ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zython View Post
    Just came here to remind people that the right has no moral conscious. If they ever try to morally scold you, it's not because they think what you're doing is wrong. Is because it's effective, and want to discourage you from doing it.

  4. #104
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    but to Nancy it was really important that she "put them in their place". which IDK what the fuck else that is supposed to mean besides doing the exact same saber rattling china did. except this is a US politician that initiated it, for some reason.
    Put them in their place as in "not the ones who get to tell American members of Congress what they can or cannot do in terms of international diplomacy".

    This was not "saber rattling". There were no "sabers". This was China trying to intimidate an American politician, and the American not being intimidated. That's it. And to you, that's a "bad thing".

    How in the hell did the Democrats not letting themselves be intimidated by a foreign power's empty threats become a negative?


  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Pelosi/the US threatened to shoot down Chinese planes and start an armed conflict?
    but they didn't... again, it seems really obtuse that it's only the US that gets to threaten and in some cases ignore a country's sovereignty so they can blow up terrorist leader #3453, who will soon to be replaced by terrorist leader #3454.

    it's only acceptable when the US does it, cuz reasons.

  6. #106
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    but they didn't... again, it seems really obtuse that it's only the US that gets to threaten and in some cases ignore a country's sovereignty so they can blow up terrorist leader #3453, who will soon to be replaced by terrorist leader #3454.

    it's only acceptable when the US does it, cuz reasons.
    Are you suggesting that China could have assassinated Pelosi as a "terrorist leader" and that the world would have just been like "yep, makes sense"?

    Because I'm struggling to see how you're not saying that.


  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    but they didn't... again, it seems really obtuse that it's only the US that gets to threaten and in some cases ignore a country's sovereignty so they can blow up terrorist leader #3453, who will soon to be replaced by terrorist leader #3454.

    it's only acceptable when the US does it, cuz reasons.
    You do realise China's response was likely known by the US long before they announced it. Pelosi's visit in many ways is actually a win for the PRC. It's also a win for the ROC and a Win for the US (or the Democrats in general).

    For the US/Democrats, Pelosi just destroyed any talking point about the Democrats being soft on China that Trump loved to push, her visiting the island of Taiwan basically from the US POV is a FU to China. Anyone in the republicans who wanted to follow Trump's talking point has now got to find a new talking point. Also the US have now from the Chinese response likely a new order from Taiwan for nice new equipment.

    Now let's move to China. It always does military exercises in the summer. Pelosi's visit gave them an excuse to do a bigger one to show off more. Also if you're not in China then the sabre-rattling talk wasn't for you. It was to drum up a nice little piece of nationalism/patriotism while the economy is having a seriously rough time due to the Covid pandemic and the 0 covid push that Xi is trying to push in the country.

    Now how is this a win for Taiwan, Pelosi visit basically showed the Island US resolve to help defend the area from the PRC. It shows while the western world is still focusing on Ukraine that the US has not forgotten about them. Yes, Pelosi has a personal beef with the PRC dating back to 91 and a voting record to show this but having the speaker of the house visiting even if the president of the US is keeping the ambiguity sends a message to Taipei that the US isn't leaving them. Hell the US wants Asia pacific region to be their biggest focus.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Are you suggesting that China could have assassinated Pelosi as a "terrorist leader" and that the world would have just been like "yep, makes sense"?

    Because I'm struggling to see how you're not saying that.
    YOU, made the point that China wasn't going to do anything beyond saber rattling. and I'm making the point that 1) china didn't even start the saber rattling. and 2) why is it only acceptable when the US saber rattles and even goes beyond that, a lot, like it goes further than what China did numerous times every fucking year.

    again, it has been settled for decades now between the US, China and Taiwan that the status quo is the ideal situation for everyone and the topic of Taiwan going it's own way is one to be dealt with a long ways down the road.

    but enter Nancy Pelosi.... who really needed to shake things up over.... what?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Hell the US wants Asia pacific region to be their biggest focus.
    wooo more imperialism wooo we love that!

  9. #109
    The Unstoppable Force Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    wooo more imperialism wooo we love that!
    Because if it isn't the US, it's going to be China.

    Like as is becoming painfully clear in eastern Europe right now. You're either with NATO/the EU, or you're under threat of being the site of Russia's next "special operation." Russia was far less tactful and calculating than China is being, but it's clear that China is expanding their sphere of influence and will continue to try and do so.

    Ask two of China's nearby neighbors, Japan and South Korea, who they'd prefer to have as their friends between China and the US. And with Russia's growing "alliance" (read, dependency) on China, India is probably growing closer to choosing a side too when they realize the money they're spending to buy equipment from Russia to protect them from China is just wheedling its way back to China. When your closest neighbors fear you and will ally with countries across the world for protection from you, you know you've got a problem. And say what you will of the US, but Canada and Mexico aren't hosting Chinese military bases in anticipation of having to curtail American aggression.
    Last edited by Kaleredar; 2022-08-07 at 08:13 PM.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    so she's an idiot? who doesn't seem to care that her fee fees aren't worth starting an armed conflict? what a great story to run with.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    What armed conflict?
    Indulge me.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    so she's an idiot? who doesn't seem to care that her fee fees aren't worth starting an armed conflict? what a great story to run with.
    So wait, I'm confused. Are we supposed to stand up to China, or are we supposed to back down and play nice to avoid a war? Because it feels like the answer is different depending on whether it's a Republican or Democrat standing up to them.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    so she's an idiot? who doesn't seem to care that her fee fees aren't worth starting an armed conflict? what a great story to run with.
    What armed conflict? The same military maneuvers China does every summer, except bigger?
    It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built -Kreia

    The internet: where to every action is opposed an unequal overreaction.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkTZeratul View Post
    So wait, I'm confused. Are we supposed to stand up to China, or are we supposed to back down and play nice to avoid a war? Because it feels like the answer is different depending on whether it's a Republican or Democrat standing up to them.
    I think the whole "standing up to China" slogan is a fucking farce, is what I think. a little too late to keep pretending like a war between the US and China is ever going to happen.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    What armed conflict? The same military maneuvers China does every summer, except bigger?
    so is it a big deal that China made a show of it or what?

    and why are we deflecting from Pelosi's behavior here? the only explanation I've been given is she has personal issues with China. get the fuck over it, Nancy. you are a representative of a country whose own stated position on this runs completely counter to yours, get the fuck in line.
    Last edited by uuuhname; 2022-08-07 at 08:33 PM.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    I think the whole "standing up to China" slogan is a fucking farce, is what I think. a little too late to keep pretending like a war between the US and China is ever going to happen.

    - - - Updated - - -



    so is it a big deal that China made a show of it or what?

    and why are we deflecting from Pelosi's behavior here? the only explanation I've been given is she has personal issues with China. get the fuck over it, Nancy. you are a representative of a country whose own stated position on this runs completely counter to yours, get the fuck in line.
    This isn't a personal issue lol. The White House and Pentagon wouldn't have let this happen at all had they not wanted or at least okayed it to happen, the Speaker can't just impose the route of an entire tour in SE Asia on the rather large diplomatic and military apparatus that accompanies her visit.

    America and China are rivals, in case this has escaped notice. Not like, going-at-war rivals of course, that's not how things work, but jockeying for influence and trading diplomatic shots are definitely on the table. And Taiwan is at the center of this power struggle for the foreseeable future. This is way bigger than Pelosi's feels and I'm not sure why you're approaching it from that angle at all. Nothing is being shaken up, China currently has every intention to capture Taiwan and crush its government as soon as it can, it just happens that it currently cannot. Pelosi being there or not changes absolutely nothing.
    It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built -Kreia

    The internet: where to every action is opposed an unequal overreaction.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    but they didn't... again, it seems really obtuse that it's only the US that gets to threaten and in some cases ignore a country's sovereignty so they can blow up terrorist leader #3453, who will soon to be replaced by terrorist leader #3454.

    it's only acceptable when the US does it, cuz reasons.
    Where did I defend US airstrikes on terrorist targets in other countries without said countries explicit approval?

  16. #116
    Immortal unfilteredJW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Where did I defend US airstrikes on terrorist targets in other countries without said countries explicit approval?
    Don't you know political discussion is a zero sum game?
    Blessed are the fornicates, may we bend down to be their whores. Blessed are the rich, may our labor deliver them more.
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    What of the pious, the pure of heart, the peaceful, the meek, the mourning, and the merciful? All doomed, all doomed

  17. #117
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    and why are we deflecting from Pelosi's behavior here? the only explanation I've been given is she has personal issues with China. get the fuck over it, Nancy. you are a representative of a country whose own stated position on this runs completely counter to yours, get the fuck in line.
    What is there to "deflect" over?

    You realize the USA regularly sells defensive weaponry to Taiwan, right? Every since Jimmy Carter. It's part of the Taiwan Relations Act's mandates;

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ales_to_Taiwan
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan_Relations_Act

    This has been the bipartisan status quo for decades. Pelosi's not violating US policy. This wasn't an establishment of formal diplomatic relations, so there's no violation. You're making shit up, dude.


  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Where did I defend US airstrikes on terrorist targets in other countries without said countries explicit approval?
    where do I say you have????

    why do you think my point is aimed at you personally? I'm talking about US military action and foreign policy... what the hell.

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    What is there to "deflect" over?

    You realize the USA regularly sells defensive weaponry to Taiwan, right? Every since Jimmy Carter. It's part of the Taiwan Relations Act's mandates;

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ales_to_Taiwan
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan_Relations_Act

    This has been the bipartisan status quo for decades. Pelosi's not violating US policy. This wasn't an establishment of formal diplomatic relations, so there's no violation. You're making shit up, dude.
    How else are they going to find something to get upset over? It's always been manufactured outrage.
    8

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post

    America and China are rivals, in case this has escaped notice.
    no, it hasn't, so shove the condescension up where it belongs.

    also I need citations on this... "official" position from the Chinese government on the issue, thanks.

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