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  1. #1

    RDF and Heroic ID's

    Hey everyone

    With RDF gone from classic I wondered. Do we know how Heroic Dungeon ID's will be managed? One of the benefits (IMO) of RDF was that if you queued for Random Heroics you were, in theory, able to run the same Heroic as many times as you want if you were lucky and got the same one multiple times. Or in other words you could run unlimited heroic dungeons no matter which one.

    But since the tool won't be there in classic how is this managed? Are we simply limited to 1 run of each heroic dungeon like it is now in tbc classic?

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Lyrel8490 View Post
    Hey everyone

    With RDF gone from classic I wondered. Do we know how Heroic Dungeon ID's will be managed? One of the benefits (IMO) of RDF was that if you queued for Random Heroics you were, in theory, able to run the same Heroic as many times as you want if you were lucky and got the same one multiple times. Or in other words you could run unlimited heroic dungeons no matter which one.

    But since the tool won't be there in classic how is this managed? Are we simply limited to 1 run of each heroic dungeon like it is now in tbc classic?
    Yup, you'll be limited to one run of each dungeon as it is now. I'm pretty sure that's even still the rule in retail, you can only specifically queue for a heroic dungeon once per week.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fascinate View Post
    i find it hard to believe some random raid from BFA would draw in more players than the battleground patch in classic
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    FruitySalad boy, this is a fantastic thread and is really going places. I just want to make sure I'm on page one of what is bound to be a long lasting and productive thread. It's amazing there are no other threads discussing the squish, as I'm confident you would have just posted in them if they did exist.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Stickiler View Post
    Yup, you'll be limited to one run of each dungeon as it is now. I'm pretty sure that's even still the rule in retail, you can only specifically queue for a heroic dungeon once per week.
    In Retail the ID only counts if you queue for specific heroics yes. If you just queue for random heroics you can run as many as you want.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Lyrel8490 View Post
    Hey everyone

    With RDF gone from classic I wondered. Do we know how Heroic Dungeon ID's will be managed? One of the benefits (IMO) of RDF was that if you queued for Random Heroics you were, in theory, able to run the same Heroic as many times as you want if you were lucky and got the same one multiple times. Or in other words you could run unlimited heroic dungeons no matter which one.

    But since the tool won't be there in classic how is this managed? Are we simply limited to 1 run of each heroic dungeon like it is now in tbc classic?
    Yes. This is one of the biggest reasons I wanted RDF removed. You should be restricted to the same once per day heroic lockouts that you had when Wrath originally launched. By the time RDF was introduced, those lockouts didn't matter whatsoever.

    You can argue that they don't matter now since Naxx was such a face roll you didn't need the gear, but they have indicated that they are buffing Naxx, so heroic gear may matter this time.

  5. #5
    Blizzard don't want people to rush heroics to get geared ASAP.

  6. #6
    Yeah, just like tbc 5 man's become mostly dead content without rdf. Sure some alt runs will wiggle out. Sure, a few daily groups will roll. But mostly it will go from some of the most run content to a ghost town in 2-3 weeks after launch.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Low Hanging Fruit View Post
    Yeah, just like tbc 5 man's become mostly dead content without rdf. Sure some alt runs will wiggle out. Sure, a few daily groups will roll. But mostly it will go from some of the most run content to a ghost town in 2-3 weeks after launch.
    I doubt that even with DF, dungeons would be that popular in TBC, the crux is simply that they're not as rewarding.
    Especially as tank you just feel the pinch, it's much easier to just sit in a Kara run as 2nd tank than to slog through 5man dungeons, get some gear and still get pounded by some bosses in Kara (nevermind the threat issues).

    Similiar thing would happen in Wotlk as well, why bother gearing through heroics when you can get showered in gear in Naxx?
    Reason why heroics remained relevant is because they turned them into catchup content in 3.2 via emblems, at which point people didn't bother about the gear that dropped in heroics but just the emblems.

    Disregarding that, Blizzard at least stated that they want to keep heroics relevant throughout Wotlk, even adding new challenges to them as new content get released.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2022-08-07 at 01:28 PM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    I doubt that even with DF, dungeons would be that popular in TBC, the crux is simply that they're not as rewarding.
    Especially as tank you just feel the pinch, it's much easier to just sit in a Kara run as 2nd tank than to slog through 5man dungeons, get some gear and still get pounded by some bosses in Kara (nevermind the threat issues).

    Similiar thing would happen in Wotlk as well, why bother gearing through heroics when you can get showered in gear in Naxx?
    Reason why heroics remained relevant is because they turned them into catchup content in 3.2 via emblems, at which point people didn't bother about the gear that dropped in heroics but just the emblems.

    Disregarding that, Blizzard at least stated that they want to keep heroics relevant throughout Wotlk, even adding new challenges to them as new content get released.
    At least they had a purpose at some point later. Now we get 2 or 3 weeks.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Low Hanging Fruit View Post
    At least they had a purpose at some point later. Now we get 2 or 3 weeks.
    I'm going to take a wild guess and say people will do heroics again when Phase 3 (which will be the ToC patch) comes out.

    Nevermind that i'm repeating myself by saying that Blizzard literally said they want to keep them relevant and even going so far to say they add extra challenges to them.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    I'm going to take a wild guess and say people will do heroics again when Phase 3 (which will be the ToC patch) comes out.

    Nevermind that i'm repeating myself by saying that Blizzard literally said they want to keep them relevant and even going so far to say they add extra challenges to them.
    People will do them is a pretty wide margin to put a guess out on. Sure, people will do them. But would they be as popular or as many people doing them as if RDF was in the game. That is more the question. If its more engaging why wouldn't that be more the angle you go for then one that is, possibly, less.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Low Hanging Fruit View Post
    People will do them is a pretty wide margin to put a guess out on. Sure, people will do them. But would they be as popular or as many people doing them as if RDF was in the game. That is more the question. If its more engaging why wouldn't that be more the angle you go for then one that is, possibly, less.
    I don't know, i think they're going to be decently popular, especially with the last phase when they introduced the ICC 5mans - before that DF didn't even exist to begin with.

    I think however at this point you're just entering a territory where you just want to be proven right because being "as popular as if DF was in the game" is a terribly difficult metric to measure something.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    I don't know, i think they're going to be decently popular, especially with the last phase when they introduced the ICC 5mans - before that DF didn't even exist to begin with.

    I think however at this point you're just entering a territory where you just want to be proven right because being "as popular as if DF was in the game" is a terribly difficult metric to measure something.
    I mean I get it, you are the resident contrarian. I say this you say no this. I say over there you say no over there. Don't worry about it. They will be dead as hell. Sure, you can try to put in the new content shade on top of it. But I doubt when those new ICC 5 mans come out suddenly the older ones become widely popular again.

    But I know.. you will have some no it actually will be.. reply.. oh well. Done with the topic.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Low Hanging Fruit View Post
    I mean I get it, you are the resident contrarian.
    Nah, it's just that people like you who, to put it plain, are still butthurt over the removal of DF are just annoying.

    Will people do less dungeons without DF?
    Yeah, it's an accessability tool, so by the very nature of the absence of an accessability tool, you will have less people in engaging but to proclaim that dungeons will be a"ghost town in 2-3 weeks after launch" is just pure doomsaying.
    This completely disregards that Dungeons will still become catchup content with Phase 3 and 4 respectively and also ignores that Blizzard has said that they're going to keep Dungeons relevant throughout the expansion by adding new stuff into them.

    Nevermind that heroic dungeons also no longer have those massive difficulty swings like TBC heroics have, the plain fact that you don't have to adjust your playstyle regardless of your tanks class, or just that you have more flexibility thanks to dual spec.

    Yet people like you throw that all in the bin and just say "no DF means dungeons are dead, 2-3 weeks tops!".
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2022-08-07 at 09:28 PM.

  14. #14
    I'm amazed how "yes, people will be able to run much fewer dungeons than before, and will have to spend additional time forming groups and traveling the world instead of fighting monsters" is somehow spun into being SUCH A GREAT THING by some people.

    Yikes.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    I'm amazed how "yes, people will be able to run much fewer dungeons than before, and will have to spend additional time forming groups and traveling the world instead of fighting monsters" is somehow spun into being SUCH A GREAT THING by some people.

    Yikes.
    Yes we wouldn't want to spend any additional time traveling the world would we? Why not just scrap the world and make a lobby. And gosh interacting with other players socially get rid of all that garbage give a tool that just smashes players together with no talking. That way players are as disposable as possible and you can just vote kick whoever and instantly teleport a new player in to replace them.

    And in such a world we'd maximize our runs per hour so we can stop playing the game and get to being afk in Dalaran as fast as possible. Wonderful.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hctaz View Post
    Yes. This is one of the biggest reasons I wanted RDF removed. You should be restricted to the same once per day heroic lockouts that you had when Wrath originally launched. By the time RDF was introduced, those lockouts didn't matter whatsoever.

    You can argue that they don't matter now since Naxx was such a face roll you didn't need the gear, but they have indicated that they are buffing Naxx, so heroic gear may matter this time.
    There's a 30% buff of Naxxramas on beta but it doesn't make much of a difference.

    Here's a clear in 200 illvl (so heroic blues)

    https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/rep...6G8cLQwmYMpvdt

    They got the make quick werk of him achievement on Patchwerk in heroic blues with a 30% buff. No wipes.
    Last edited by Nitros14; 2022-08-08 at 11:21 AM.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    people will be able to run much fewer dungeons than before
    Than before? You do realize that WOTLK existed for just a little longer without RDF than with it right?

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Lyrel8490 View Post
    Hey everyone

    With RDF gone from classic I wondered. Do we know how Heroic Dungeon ID's will be managed? One of the benefits (IMO) of RDF was that if you queued for Random Heroics you were, in theory, able to run the same Heroic as many times as you want if you were lucky and got the same one multiple times. Or in other words you could run unlimited heroic dungeons no matter which one.

    But since the tool won't be there in classic how is this managed? Are we simply limited to 1 run of each heroic dungeon like it is now in tbc classic?
    I hatted when you didnt have a lockout. Ppl were quueing in hopes of getting the 1 dugeon they needed and would leave the group when theys aw it wasnt

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitros14 View Post
    And gosh interacting with other players socially get rid of all that garbage give a tool that just smashes players together with no talking.
    Right, because you totally can't do that with RDF existing.

    Oh wait, you still can.

    So this is just... "I like interacting with people, therefore I want everyone else to be FORCED to interact with people, whether they like that or not".

    Cool. Seems like such a reasonable position.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    Right, because you totally can't do that with RDF existing.

    Oh wait, you still can.

    So this is just... "I like interacting with people, therefore I want everyone else to be FORCED to interact with people, whether they like that or not".

    Cool. Seems like such a reasonable position.
    The community defaults to the easiest option whether they like it or not and gets peer pressured into it if they resist just like what happened with world buffs in classic.

    Your idea of fun sucks and I hope you play a different game and ruin that instead.

    I'm glad in this case the developers have realized they need to save players from themselves.
    Last edited by Nitros14; 2022-08-08 at 12:10 PM.

  20. #20
    Light comes from darkness shise's Avatar
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    RDF will be in the game later on, when they consider it a good business move. Probably with a catch up patch (after Ulduar, in TotGC).
    That and the hype of building towards ICC will bring new waves of players in.

    Until then, 1 HC of the same per day.

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