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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by cordrann View Post
    Stop thinking about them as just stat nodes. Think of them as making Ravager, Shield Charge, and etc. two or three point talents without making the first point give you nothing and without adding something that will affect the way you play, which given how much prot has going on atm they may not want to do.



    Warrior without active mitigation up being as tanky as a paladin with active mitigation up isn't a comparison point? You're acting like warriors don't also have active mitigation.

    As an aside, after these pretty massive nerfs warrior is still by far the strongest tank on the beta.
    Paladin baseline balance Includes 100% sotr uptime and 100% consecrate if it didn't they would be busted beyond belief.

  2. #82
    So much comparisons thrown here and there. I like to fiddle around the warrior tree and see it as it self. If there are other classes that seem better, simply go for that. I have always played just my Warrior cause the fantasy is what's its all about. Stop measuring sticks. Now lets talk about the tree a bit.

    Starting off from the warrior tree. When I look at it, the 1st thing I notice is the split in 3 vertical sections with the point requirements.

    1st part - Mainly utility with QOS such as: run speed, spell reflect, fear break, leech healing and so on. Thinking about a starter character, it seems well balanced and not overwhelming as the benefits are simple.

    2nd part - Much beefier with further improvements to selected abilities and survivability. Again thinking about the leveling warrior, this branch adds dept to already selected abilities which I think is so well thought. It is very clear that there was a lot of thought put into this. Such examples, either improving Thunderclap or Heroic Leap and so on. The choice here starts to formulate into which abilities you like the most or find most useful and want to invest further.

    Last part - This has all the main abilities common to all warriors. You cannot expect in getting everything. The way I see it is that we have 2 main path choices. Either get one ability and maximize its power, example you max out Thunderous Roar. That would be 5 points used, heavy investment. Else trickle though more then one path and get weaker versions but maybe get 3 active abilities. This is the what is so great about the choice availability.

    Then we have the specialization tree. Again in 3 sections and again with the same thought process. Part 1 simple to understand, part 2 adding synergies and last part is the beefy part.

    Honestly I was not expecting such smoothness within the trees. And finally, what makes all this work so well, its not just the tree's within themselves that have such synergy, but they synergies between the spec and the class tree!!!

    The build I am going for is based on the fantasy I love; shield play, bleeding power and counter attack. So my synergy choices across trees and within the trees is to improve by shield play for both damage and defense, improve revenge attacks and empowering my bleeds.

    This is my sample.

    https://www.wowhead.com/beta/talent-...VERFRlBZRRQCQA
    Last edited by Beelzebull; 2022-09-23 at 01:18 PM. Reason: made it more legible
    Created on the 25th April 2005.
    Protection Warrior since the old days of UBRS.

    P.S. Make a part of your warrior community happy and bring Gladiator Stance back...

  3. #83
    Just coming from a Bear..... I wish my talent tree was as cool as yours.

    Still crossing my fingers that Bear going last will result in them having an amazing talent tree, but no promises.


    I'd happily take a row of +stats the way Prot and Warriors in general have them. You get alot out of those rows.

    https://www.wowhead.com/beta/talent-...VERBRlVZVBQCAE

    Looks amazing and alot of fun. I hope my Bear gets even close to that in levels of awesome.

  4. #84
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beelzebull View Post
    You cannot expect in getting everything.
    In this respect, I think most talent trees are done well. You should always want to get more than you have.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    In this respect, I think most talent trees are done well. You should always want to get more than you have.
    I get that you need to make choices in the lower part of the tree, but when the first tier of the Warrior Tree got 7 bread and butter ability, it's feel wrong to have to spend most of that tier point on basic class ability. Do I really want to be a Warrior without Berserker Rage?
    MMO-Champion, once the place to get WoW News, now the home of the haters and their clickbait and doomsaying threads

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zequill View Post
    I get that you need to make choices in the lower part of the tree, but when the first tier of the Warrior Tree got 7 bread and butter ability, it's feel wrong to have to spend most of that tier point on basic class ability. Do I really want to be a Warrior without Berserker Rage?
    Yes this is the point there are still sooo many basic abilities you can not/want to skip in early rows. That is really awful it is almost 10 or more wasted point which were all basic and must haves.
    A very cool signature text.

  7. #87
    Hmm, even though I can see a point in what you say, these abilities can be 'filtered' according to game playstyle. Example, I am mainly a PVE player and if I had to choose between, example a fear break or being able to fear, I would choose the break as that is more useful in the context that I play mostly. This does not mean that I don't want the fear, just that the other is more useful.

    Now if I want a change in play, like for example, world PVP or instanced PVP. The ability to fear is very strong and I would take it instead of other abilities.

    Its a give and take. Personally I see nothing wrong on that and I would of course empower the ability that is most useful to my style.
    Created on the 25th April 2005.
    Protection Warrior since the old days of UBRS.

    P.S. Make a part of your warrior community happy and bring Gladiator Stance back...

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zequill View Post
    I get that you need to make choices in the lower part of the tree, but when the first tier of the Warrior Tree got 7 bread and butter ability, it's feel wrong to have to spend most of that tier point on basic class ability. Do I really want to be a Warrior without Berserker Rage?
    That's a point I hadn't considered before. Interesting.

    Now I will say this probably wasn't a problem for me specifically, because I was so eager to get through the 20-talent tier wall that I was searching for places to put points. So the "I have to spend a point on Revenge?" wouldn't have occurred to me since I was throwing points around with the knowledge I had to spend 20 outweighing the need to have an actual build.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    That's a point I hadn't considered before. Interesting.

    Now I will say this probably wasn't a problem for me specifically, because I was so eager to get through the 20-talent tier wall that I was searching for places to put points. So the "I have to spend a point on Revenge?" wouldn't have occurred to me since I was throwing points around with the knowledge I had to spend 20 outweighing the need to have an actual build.
    That's an end-game centric perspective. People need to keep in mind these trees are also replacing much of the ability progression which is granted just by leveling up. Now you just have some choice about it. As far as berserker rage that the other guy mentioned, I'm personally not taking it in most builds. A fear/charm break is a very niche thing and I think other talents will be more useful most of the time. In the old system I didn't have that choice, now I do.

  10. #90
    I am not happy with this

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    That's a point I hadn't considered before. Interesting.

    Now I will say this probably wasn't a problem for me specifically, because I was so eager to get through the 20-talent tier wall that I was searching for places to put points. So the "I have to spend a point on Revenge?" wouldn't have occurred to me since I was throwing points around with the knowledge I had to spend 20 outweighing the need to have an actual build.
    The minimum cost requirements for the upper tiers are such that you're getting everything BUT one, or two, or three options. It's not so much a choice of "what do I get?" as "what do I not have much need for?" Most of the actual choices and trade-offs will be on the lower tiers, while the upper tiers are mostly about which talent are you taking *right now* versus in a few levels?

  12. #92
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Serpent View Post
    The minimum cost requirements for the upper tiers are such that you're getting everything BUT one, or two, or three options. It's not so much a choice of "what do I get?" as "what do I not have much need for?" Most of the actual choices and trade-offs will be on the lower tiers, while the upper tiers are mostly about which talent are you taking *right now* versus in a few levels?
    That seems about right to me, too.

    - - - Updated - - -

    The class tunes/changes are getting light, Prot Warrior got basically nothing. So, yeah, that promised longer look isn't happening after all. Again, not a fan of being ignored...again...but the tree is at least between really good and great.

  13. #93
    Didnt read the complains, but not sure why there are any, class feels awesome, it never had so much rage regeneration and SB uptime with 0 gear levels and like 0 haste from the test gear, the nerf thats coming when there will be more gear scaling in patch x.2 and x.3 will not be fun

    Talking defensive wise since i wont bother playing on beta, couldnt care less, i wll do on live, but one quick heroic i did to check, despite being shitty heroic, with 0 gear and 0 scaling, you should be getting SOME damage, and i felt like running a mythic 0 with x.3 gear.

    Shit is immune, the rage regeneration is insane, 80 rage from Shield Charge every 45 seconds? (15x8)x2 from Ravager? Are we for real?

    Without counting The Wall and everything else rage regeneration in there.

    Class never felt so playable on a first patch, ever.
    Last edited by potis; 2022-09-29 at 09:50 AM.

  14. #94
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    What do people think about the set bonuses? Vanguard’s Determination looks like it'll have really high uptime.

  15. #95
    Doing dungeons on beta 70 pre-made: holy cow, Shield Charge is awesome. Titanic Throw is awesome. Pumped for Warrior.
    "We must make our choice. We may have democracy, or we may have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both."
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  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gestopft View Post
    Shield Charge is awesome.
    Were you using this?

    Champion’s Bulwark – Now correctly doesn’t consume charges of Shield Block or trigger cooldowns of Shield Block.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Were you using this?

    Champion’s Bulwark – Now correctly doesn’t consume charges of Shield Block or trigger cooldowns of Shield Block.
    I think this was before that, so I guess not?
    "We must make our choice. We may have democracy, or we may have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both."
    -Louis Brandeis

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gestopft View Post
    I think this was before that, so I guess not?
    I mean Champion's Bulwark in general. This looks like a simple bugfix, but worth calling out to people who took that talent.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    I mean Champion's Bulwark in general. This looks like a simple bugfix, but worth calling out to people who took that talent.
    Oh yeah, I had that talent. I didn't notice it wasn't working (mostly paying attention to what mobs were doing) but SB uptime did seem low now that I think about it.
    "We must make our choice. We may have democracy, or we may have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both."
    -Louis Brandeis

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gestopft View Post
    Oh yeah, I had that talent. I didn't notice it wasn't working (mostly paying attention to what mobs were doing) but SB uptime did seem low now that I think about it.
    Well it's a good thing it was caught and fixed, along with the minimum range being removed. It's gone from "looks really good" to damn near "must-have".

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