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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Djuntas View Post
    Jesus christ. So you want people to use external sources to learn the game. And you wonder why people dont want to raid in WoW. GG.
    You don't have to use external sources. There's this thing called dungeon journal, you can look up all the abilities ingame.
    External sources just make it easier to learn because it's better structured.



    Quote Originally Posted by Djuntas View Post
    Bro I haven't bothered to raid seriously since end of cata. I was a heroic (Mythic) sweaty person, who did my 350 wipes on heroic ragnaros...I can play just fine, even to this day, but the fact is that raids in wow only keeps getting more and more toxic for average people to bother doing.
    That's bold to say, for a person who thinks looking up what a boss does for 3 minutes, is toxic.



    Quote Originally Posted by Djuntas View Post
    Im just from another time. Back when raiding was commitment.
    Raiding is still a commitment. The only thing that changed, is you. Nowadays you think it's not a commitment and everyone who tells you you're wrong is toxic. Do you see the irony?

    Quote Originally Posted by Djuntas View Post
    Again I dont raid now. At least in TBCC or classic you never had people leaving raids...I raided a lot in TBCC and never saw that behaviour, even in karazhan....And I did like 20-25 KZ runs at least. But I guess raiding now is just so w/e...pug lol fuck you my rules LFG system.
    People left raids in vanilla and TBC all the time. PUG raids just weren't as common as they are today. Why do you think guilds had rosters of 60+ people back then?

  2. #22
    Free Food!?!?! Tziva's Avatar
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    I don't think it's fair to get mad at people for not wanting to commit to a PuG raid when there are people in said PuG who seem to think that learning the fight mechanics is too big of an ask.

    Also, Fated KT sucks this week. Oof.


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  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Djuntas View Post
    Jesus christ. So you want people to use external sources to learn the game. And you wonder why people dont want to raid in WoW. GG. Bro I haven't bothered to raid seriously since end of cata. I was a heroic (Mythic) sweaty person, who did my 350 wipes on heroic ragnaros...I can play just fine, even to this day, but the fact is that raids in wow only keeps getting more and more toxic for average people to bother doing. PS I only wiped that raid I did ONCE, because they didnt even bother telling tactic before we pulled sludge (Tank the boss where he stands, and yes I did all pillars perfectly next pull...), and I was tanking since 2nd boss because RL wanted me too, blindly no tactics

    Man wow is so fucking screwed with peoples mentality...It seems like the community actually think this is fine.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Im just from another time. Back when raiding was commitment. Again I dont raid now. At least in TBCC or classic you never had people leaving raids...I raided a lot in TBCC and never saw that behaviour, even in karazhan....And I did like 20-25 KZ runs at least. But I guess raiding now is just so w/e...pug lol fuck you my rules LFG system.
    Honestly, I am in shock. You don't want to wipe/play the game to learn the boss but you also act like it's blasphamy to be expected to go to external sources prior to avoid said wipes and then you blame your 1 mistake on the fact that somebody else didn't learn the mechanics for you and then tell you them. I can't tell if your trolling or really this self-entitled. You just want a mount without having to actually do anything. Your the toxic one here, you want everyone else to put in the work while you get carried and then call those people toxic for leaving.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Fitsu View Post
    Honestly, I am in shock. You don't want to wipe/play the game to learn the boss but you also act like it's blasphamy to be expected to go to external sources prior to avoid said wipes and then you blame your 1 mistake on the fact that somebody else didn't learn the mechanics for you and then tell you them. I can't tell if your trolling or really this self-entitled. You just want a mount without having to actually do anything. Your the toxic one here, you want everyone else to put in the work while you get carried and then call those people toxic for leaving.
    Sure, think that meanwhile raiding has never been less popular (See asmongolds video on the statistics). Meanwhile when you join raids in TBCC or classic people take their time to explain tactics, and want to be helpful. There is a reason why wow is dying, and your thoughts in this thread is 100% why. So much hostility against people who dont treat raiding, mythic+ as a job, who are always 100% up to date and think wow is a serious thing that is all mighty game.

    Crazy how nobody on retail see's how toxic the game has become. Joining a normal pug, 1st week of content and you people think its fine to not explain tactics and just leave raids at random times, giving no fuck about other people.

    Also, I have 36k nerd points, about top 1000 world rank, I have done all the content in the game, Im very much a wow player in ALL regards (Even did some PvP in the past, 2k rated 2v2/Battlemaster title), but wow now a days is way to sweaty to bother about for real.
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  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Delever View Post
    SO to get this straight.... you think people prioritizing real life over a video game is toxic... but you refusing to learn basic af mechanics for normal and expecting to get carried is not? And you think WoW is "dying " due to the former... ok bruh
    Not sure why you're bothering to reply. He's literally saying "I want to get things with no investment and if the game won't hand it to me, it's dying". The mentality of "having above playing" that is, indeed, killing the game. But because of people like him, not the other way around.

  6. #26
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    I think there's a definite need for somebody to make a condensed guide to each Raid purely out of what still can actually kill you on Normal mode, just for people doing this achievement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tziva View Post
    I don't think it's fair to get mad at people for not wanting to commit to a PuG raid when there are people in said PuG who seem to think that learning the fight mechanics is too big of an ask.

    Also, Fated KT sucks this week. Oof.
    The downstairs seemed overtuned - it seemed like he had too much health downstairs. Am I crazy? We used to send 4 DPS down on Heroic and had to send 6 down on Fated Normal last night and still almost missed the timer.
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  7. #27
    How are there two global mods posting in this troll thread where the OP keeps flaming people and calling them sweaty nerds because they don't want to carry him through normal at the same time as they prioritise real life over WoW raiding which is simultaneously killing the game AND the reason why the OP can't spend five minutes reading up on bosses?

    Quote Originally Posted by Djuntas View Post
    asmongold asmongolds asmongold
    herp derp I harvest my opinions from a man who lives in his mother's attic literally surrounded by his own filth

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Djuntas View Post
    Joining a normal pug, 1st week of content and you people think its fine to not explain tactics and just leave raids at random times, giving no fuck about other people.
    How are others supposed to know the tactics? So others should not only take the time to read up on tactics, but take even more time to explain it to the people who won't bother? And somehow THEY are the toxic ones?

    Logic?
    Last edited by neescher; 2022-08-10 at 11:19 AM.

  9. #29
    you don't need to perfect the tactics for normal mode, just be aware of the basics and do your best. most pugs won't mind carrying someone a bit if they're clearly trying, but many will resent someone who seems to be not even making an effort

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by neescher View Post
    How are others supposed to know the tactics? So others should not only take the time to read up on tactics, but take even more time to explain it to the people who won't bother? And somehow THEY are the toxic ones?

    Logic?
    ...Its what we do in TBCC. I have explained tactics tons in karazhan and other raids, because the community is more friendly, open and welcoming to people. Again what I describe is excactly why people don't wanna raid in WoW retail anymore, meanwhile like everybody who plays TBCC raids

    Also @Nzx Such a generic answer to Asmongold hate xD jesus, you people who can't stop hating on a guy thats obviously saying every truth about wow for years now....Hillarious. But no go back to your 5-6 times nerfed Sepulcher Mythic, and enjoy that.
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  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Djuntas View Post
    Sure, think that meanwhile raiding has never been less popular (See asmongolds video on the statistics). Meanwhile when you join raids in TBCC or classic people take their time to explain tactics, and want to be helpful. There is a reason why wow is dying, and your thoughts in this thread is 100% why. So much hostility against people who dont treat raiding, mythic+ as a job, who are always 100% up to date and think wow is a serious thing that is all mighty game.

    Crazy how nobody on retail see's how toxic the game has become. Joining a normal pug, 1st week of content and you people think its fine to not explain tactics and just leave raids at random times, giving no fuck about other people.

    Also, I have 36k nerd points, about top 1000 world rank, I have done all the content in the game, Im very much a wow player in ALL regards (Even did some PvP in the past, 2k rated 2v2/Battlemaster title), but wow now a days is way to sweaty to bother about for real.
    Deflection and avoidance, this isn't a conversation of TBC vs Retail, which community is more toxic or why raiding is less popular. I have no metrics for any of these and it holds no relevance to the conversation. Nor is it a conversation about how experienced you are, your dodging the question you yourself asked.

    Ok, let me try this a different way. Would you be willing to sit in a raid where all 20 people were exactly like you, where every single raider had no idea what the mechanics were and you spent the next 3 raid nights wiping on bosses slowly learning the mechanics? Because if not then how can you call others for toxic for not being willing to deal with you?

    Your question is: Is it toxic to go into a raid expecting everyone else to put in the effort and carry me though? And the answer is yes.

    If you want to join a raid with equally minded people and sit through that, that isn't toxic. But from what I can see that's not what you want, you want to be carried for free and that is toxic. I'm not being hostile by simply asking you to do exactly what you expect me to do.

    Also, please stop exaggerating "treat raiding like a job being always 100% up to date" people are asking you to spend 5min reading tactics so they don't spend an hour wiping on the boss. They are asking for the bare minimum from you, not an 8 hour shift.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Djuntas View Post
    ...Its what we do in TBCC. I have explained tactics tons in karazhan and other raids, because the community is more friendly, open and welcoming to people. Again what I describe is excactly why people don't wanna raid in WoW retail anymore, meanwhile like everybody who plays TBCC raids
    You didn't answer my question. HOW are others supposed to know? You expect THEM to read up on tactics? Or should they just magically know?

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Fitsu View Post
    Deflection and avoidance, this isn't a conversation of TBC vs Retail, which community is more toxic or why raiding is less popular. I have no metrics for any of these and it holds no relevance to the conversation. Nor is it a conversation about how experienced you are, your dodging the question you yourself asked.

    Ok, let me try this a different way. Would you be willing to sit in a raid where all 20 people were exactly like you, where every single raider had no idea what the mechanics were and you spent the next 3 raid nights wiping on bosses slowly learning the mechanics? Because if not then how can you call others for toxic for not being willing to deal with you?

    Your question is: Is it toxic to go into a raid expecting everyone else to put in the effort and carry me though? And the answer is yes.

    If you want to join a raid with equally minded people and sit through that, that isn't toxic. But from what I can see that's not what you want, you want to be carried for free and that is toxic. I'm not being hostile by simply asking you to do exactly what you expect me to do.

    Also, please stop exaggerating "treat raiding like a job being always 100% up to date" people are asking you to spend 5min reading tactics so they don't spend an hour wiping on the boss. They are asking for the bare minimum from you, not an 8 hour shift.
    Mate I have never wanted to be carried. I just feared in the OP that if I join a pug to get my mount (Which I did) it would be a dreadful exsperience. I showed up with full consumes, slight know-how, was then asked to tank after 1st boss because of leavers, which I did gladly, but then see that even the RL, or most people don't have time to explain basic stuff, which leads to unnecessary friction and toxic behavior - Join any TBCC raid and you'll never see a raid not even explaining basic stuff.

    But whatever...I have 35 million gold, so ill buy a boost for the next 2 normal raids most likely...5 hours of toxicity cause people don't wanna be social and friendly...Again this just makes new comers never wanna join raids cause they gonna see what I went through.

    Litterally 1 of my mates was also sad the mount was moved to normal. Hes very casual, started playing again in SL, but hes not gonna bother either, cause he dont know tactics.
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  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Djuntas View Post
    Also @Nzx Such a generic answer to Asmongold hate xD jesus, you people who can't stop hating on a guy thats obviously saying every truth about wow for years now....Hillarious. But no go back to your 5-6 times nerfed Sepulcher Mythic, and enjoy that.
    I have no idea what Asmongold says about anything. I have no desire to listen to the ramblings of someone who has no concept of how the world works, much like I have no desire to continue listening to you whinge about how normal mode raiding is beyond your capability. You're here to complain and no amount of logical reasoning will change your mind, you're convinced you're right and everyone else is wrong because someone else on the internet agreed with you. Congrats, I guess.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by neescher View Post
    You didn't answer my question. HOW are others supposed to know? You expect THEM to read up on tactics? Or should they just magically know?
    People know tactics because they have done the raid before...What else you think. Same with me in 5 mans or raids I have done, a little tactic talk so we avoid wipes...
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  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Djuntas View Post
    People know tactics because they have done the raid before...What else you think. Same with me in 5 mans or raids I have done, a little tactic talk so we avoid wipes...
    No they haven't. You said yourself, it's week 1, so you don't know the tactics.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Nzx View Post
    I have no idea what Asmongold says about anything. I have no desire to listen to the ramblings of someone who has no concept of how the world works, much like I have no desire to continue listening to you whinge about how normal mode raiding is beyond your capability. You're here to complain and no amount of logical reasoning will change your mind, you're convinced you're right and everyone else is wrong because someone else on the internet agreed with you. Congrats, I guess.
    Mate, listen to his vods on youtube or whatever then. You hating on somebody you clearly have no concepts off. Also normal raiding is not beyond anyone's capability, its easy if you know tactics and done the raids progressing through them wiping 130 times as they did early in Shadowlands, aka gained experience, just like how I did it back then...But whatever, community issues in wow is gonna kill the raiding scene on retail.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by neescher View Post
    No they haven't. You said yourself, it's week 1, so you don't know the tactics.
    Jesus, bro. I was prolly one of the few in my pug who had not done the raid back then. So many people could speak up and tell tactics but they don't want to be social in wow, just elitist who think everyone should know the raid already before joining. 2 people occasionally bothered telling tactics, but they soon left the raid.
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  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Djuntas View Post
    Join any TBCC raid and you'll never see a raid not even explaining basic stuff.
    TBCC doesn't have the dungeon journal, which does exactly what you're demanding other people do for you, that is, explains the basic mechanics, and even gives you a breakdown of what each role needs to know (So it outlines exactly what tanks need to be aware of, for example).

    If I step in to a PuG, I assume that everyone has read the Dungeon Journal, at a bare minimum.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Djuntas View Post
    Jesus, bro. I was prolly one of the few in my pug who had not done the raid back then. So many people could speak up and tell tactics but they don't want to be social in wow, just elitist who think everyone should know the raid already before joining. 2 people occasionally bothered telling tactics, but they soon left the raid.
    Let's assume for a second you're right about that. You totally aren't, but let's assume. If everyone except you knows the tactics, it's even worse!

    You go into the raid, and someone has to explain the boss to you for 5 minutes, because you refuse to do the work yourself. 19 other people are just sitting there, waiting for the explanation to finish (because as you said, everyone except you knows the boss). Repeat for 10 bosses. You just WASTED an hour for 19 other people, because you think having to learn tactics on your own is toxic.

    You think THAT'S social? How? How detached from reality do you have to be, to think that wasting everyone else's time is "social"?

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Djuntas View Post
    Mate I have never wanted to be carried. I just feared in the OP that if I join a pug to get my mount (Which I did) it would be a dreadful exsperience. I showed up with full consumes, slight know-how, was then asked to tank after 1st boss because of leavers, which I did gladly, but then see that even the RL, or most people don't have time to explain basic stuff, which leads to unnecessary friction and toxic behavior - Join any TBCC raid and you'll never see a raid not even explaining basic stuff.

    But whatever...I have 35 million gold, so ill buy a boost for the next 2 normal raids most likely...5 hours of toxicity cause people don't wanna be social and friendly...Again this just makes new comers never wanna join raids cause they gonna see what I went through.

    Litterally 1 of my mates was also sad the mount was moved to normal. Hes very casual, started playing again in SL, but hes not gonna bother either, cause he dont know tactics.
    Once again you didn't answer my question and started to compare retail to TBC.

    Would you be happy to be in a raid where all 20 raiders come in with the same mentality as you and nobody knows the tactics and if not how can you call people toxic for leaving you.

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