Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
5
LastLast
  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Koriani View Post
    Love how the OP just assumes everyone's opinion is the same here and we all agree with him. On the movies themselves, or the actors.
    "universally loved even by people who didn't like the movies" - uhh.. maybe in your reality.

    I'll agree on Cavell - but at the same time, I'm not saying I don't think anyone else can do just as good, or better of a job, than he does. I think yes, he makes a great Superman, but he's not the only person who /can/ make a great Superman. We've just also not had a ton of other actors play Superman to compare to (only 3 in movies anyway) - unlike Batman and Batman movies. (Numbers untold - no really I just can't think of them all LOL).

    But I totally DO NOT agree on Affleck as "Best Batman" we have. Nope. Not even close. I thought he was a pretty boring Batman actually, and brought zippo to the roll. He's not Clooney level of bad, but I saw nothing great either. Maybe he would have displayed better chops with a better writer/director - but I've seen other Affleck movies and he's "hit or miss" with me. *shrugs*

    I'm not saying I loved any, or all, of the other Batman actors better than Affleck. Most of the Batman actors are just equally forgettable to me, even if not outright 'bad'. My favorite was Keaton - but I'm also willing to admit my own bias and that part of the reason I love Keaton and his Batman has nothing to do with the actor and everything to do with me being 12 and in love with the entire gothic-ness of the Burton movie as a whole. Which I feel still hasn't been topped. Pattinson was "fine" and better than I expected. I found Bale just...crappy and stupid and I'm insulted every time he uses the 'fake gruff voice'.

    I don't think we've found the "greatest Batman" actor possibility yet for 'our time'. Pattinson was the 'best' of all the ones since Keaton, but I chalk that up as much to the writing/directing as the actor themselves - and we've had a LOT of bad/dull Batman movies where no actor would really 'shine' because they aren't give the writing to shine with. I'd be just as fine with whatever "Batman" movie came next trying out another 'new' Batman actor - because we've not found a "great one" yet. Even assuming we have to have the 'same actor' in multiple movies - which is a relatively new 'requirement' in Hollywood movie making. And depending on the age of an actor, really hampers one's actor choices overall.

    And if you mean "fault of production" to include bad writing and directing- then ok, I can agree with that. But I'd say the same about hundreds of other top-level-quality-actors who are in 'bad' movies that 'fail'.
    I do chalk Affleck not shining more due to production etc.

    He fits the fantasy Sunwell in appearance and pulls off the look and feel of Batman when I saw him in the movies. Also those predictions had badass action scenes, it's just that there was so much flawed here and there, many blame on Warner execs interfering and forcing creative cha ges almost to ruinous effect for that.


    Still, for super hero batman, I have found Affkeck the coolest and closest to the animations. For a realistic batman, I still think the Nolan films best the Patterson ones for a good batman

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    Still, for super hero batman, I have found Affkeck the coolest and closest to the animations. For a realistic batman, I still think the Nolan films best the Patterson ones for a good batman
    Most realistic Batman is Hawk from the Titans show. Dude spends most of his time in bed because he's too fucked up from all the injuries he's taken over the years.

    Second most realistic Batman is the actual Batman from the Titans show. Iain Glenn's a better actor than Affleck. We never get to see him fight but its Batman. You don't need to.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    Iain Glenn's a better actor than Affleck.
    To be fair, Iain Glenn is a better actor than pretty much any other Batman.
    Isms bore me. I think they are only brought by people who seek to marginalize the potential of each ism to provide something meaningful. Name it, Capitalism, Socialism, even Communism-- all contain something of merit towards structuring a society. The biggest flaw in human history has been the need to take the worst of a system along with the best. It doesn't have to be all of one and none of another.

  4. #44
    Over 9000! Kyphael's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    9,599
    Too bad they got saddled with the hack slow-mo king, Snyder. Sadly, I can't think of a director that would know how to make a good Superman movie. Everyone has widely missed the margin. Either they try to copy Richard Donner, or The New 52 "with lots of punches and flying action for the young kids! BAM, KABLAMO!"

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    I will say that Reeves does the most believable performance by giving Clark and Superman very different physical mannerisms...but it still doesn't change his face. It might fool casual observers...but anyone that had spent a good deal of time around both Clark and Superman would not be fooled at all. Especially if that person happened to be a pulitzer prize winning journalist.

    Superman himself addresses this problem:



    The comics have, at times, used the idea that there is a low-level hypnotic effect that prevents people from making the connection between Clark and Superman.
    It's hiding in plain sight. Lois is the only person who really spends that much time up close to Superman. Bear in mind the character and his disguise were created in 1939, before everyone had a high-definition camera in their back pocket, and most people of Metropolis, let alone the world, probably only got a glimpse of him as he did some heroics and then leapt tall buildings. Not to mention 99% of the people of Metropolis have no idea who Clark Kent is, and only see him as a dark-haired white man in a city populated by majorly... dark-haired white men who dress in a suit and tie? Mind you, the disguise should have improved with the times as the character transitioned through the silver age to modern times, but I'd just go with the excuse that he's always too fast for anyone to get a good picture of, and it would always come out in a blur.
    Last edited by Kyphael; 2022-08-05 at 05:07 AM.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post

    It's hiding in plain sight. Lois is the only person who really spends that much time up close to Superman.
    Yeah. Lois Lane. Investigative Journalist. Spends time with both Clark Kent and Superman. Fooled by glasses.

    Mind you, the disguise should have improved with the times as the character transitioned through the silver age to modern times, but I'd just go with the excuse that he's always too fast for anyone to get a good picture of, and it would always come out in a blur.
    Except the Daily Planet has pictures of Superman on the front page often. Like, he sits down for interviews and shit.
    Isms bore me. I think they are only brought by people who seek to marginalize the potential of each ism to provide something meaningful. Name it, Capitalism, Socialism, even Communism-- all contain something of merit towards structuring a society. The biggest flaw in human history has been the need to take the worst of a system along with the best. It doesn't have to be all of one and none of another.

  6. #46
    Over 9000! Kyphael's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    9,599
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    Yeah. Lois Lane. Investigative Journalist. Spends time with both Clark Kent and Superman. Fooled by glasses.



    Except the Daily Planet has pictures of Superman on the front page often. Like, he sits down for interviews and shit.
    It's a dumb disguise today, but when first conceived readers didn't scrutinize things that much in 1939. Especially back then, comics were for children. It is what it is. If writers have him sitting down for close-up interviews, or other medium like the Richard Donner movies, then it's to the detriment of their own stories rather than the integrity of the character's mythos.

  7. #47
    bale was the best batman. cavill best superman imo.

  8. #48
    Never though Cavil was a great actor, but he indeed looks a lot like Superman.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    It's a dumb disguise today, but when first conceived readers didn't scrutinize things that much in 1939. Especially back then, comics were for children. It is what it is. If writers have him sitting down for close-up interviews, or other medium like the Richard Donner movies, then it's to the detriment of their own stories rather than the integrity of the character's mythos.
    It was always a dumb disguise. There isn't a kid that has ever read Superman comics that hasn't said to themselves "Why doesn't anyone notice that Clark Kent and Superman have the same face?". It might be more believable if Superman and Clark Kent weren't always hanging around the same people...but they do...and those people are supposed to be journalists.

    It's the entire reason "Super-hypnosis" and "Hypnotic glasses" were created.
    Isms bore me. I think they are only brought by people who seek to marginalize the potential of each ism to provide something meaningful. Name it, Capitalism, Socialism, even Communism-- all contain something of merit towards structuring a society. The biggest flaw in human history has been the need to take the worst of a system along with the best. It doesn't have to be all of one and none of another.

  10. #50
    Idk, I actually quite enjoyed Pattinson as Batman. I really liked that he did more investigating rather than just beating the shit outta everyone. Cavill makes a good Superman because of the rigid personality of the character, which you often see in Cavill’s acting.
    Fairy tales are more than true–not because they tell us dragons exist, but because they tell us dragons can be beaten. -G. K. Chesterton & Neil Gaiman

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Winter Blossom View Post
    Idk, I actually quite enjoyed Pattinson as Batman. I really liked that he did more investigating rather than just beating the shit outta everyone. Cavill makes a good Superman because of the rigid personality of the character, which you often see in Cavill’s acting.
    Pattinson did a good job as a very young Batman. Affleck played the Frank Miller older Batman quite well. If only we could get a mix of

    A) Afflecks playboy persona
    B) Pattinsons detective (which may have been more the director than the actor taking the "greatest detective alive" concept seriously)
    C) Bale's presence as Batman in the Dark Knight


    You know, if we're wishing for things.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Gumble View Post
    Pattinson did a good job as a very young Batman. Affleck played the Frank Miller older Batman quite well. If only we could get a mix of

    A) Afflecks playboy persona
    B) Pattinsons detective (which may have been more the director than the actor taking the "greatest detective alive" concept seriously)
    C) Bale's presence as Batman in the Dark Knight


    You know, if we're wishing for things.
    I'd say Bale's playboy persona was better than Affleck's.

    Also, the good thing about where Pattinson's Batman is is that they can develop all those things naturally. He can become a better detective, he can learn how to use his identity as Bruce Wayne to create a smokescreen, and he can hit the streets even harder now that he has a clearer purpose.

    The biggest fault with both Bale's and Affleck's Batman is that neither of them was really that smart. Pattinson's Batman is at least showing signs of a thus-far mostly unrealized potential. Hopefully they build on that with the next film.
    Isms bore me. I think they are only brought by people who seek to marginalize the potential of each ism to provide something meaningful. Name it, Capitalism, Socialism, even Communism-- all contain something of merit towards structuring a society. The biggest flaw in human history has been the need to take the worst of a system along with the best. It doesn't have to be all of one and none of another.

  13. #53
    Over 9000! Kyphael's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    9,599
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    It was always a dumb disguise. There isn't a kid that has ever read Superman comics that hasn't said to themselves "Why doesn't anyone notice that Clark Kent and Superman have the same face?". It might be more believable if Superman and Clark Kent weren't always hanging around the same people...but they do...and those people are supposed to be journalists.

    It's the entire reason "Super-hypnosis" and "Hypnotic glasses" were created.
    If you were alive in 1939 and most of the golden years of the character to know what kids were talking about, kudos. The concept certainly became dumber during the Silver Age as comic book readers became older, but for its time, a mild-mannered reporter for the Daily Planet hiding in plain sight in the great Metropolitan area isn't that farfetched. It crossed my mind reading comics as a teenager, but it never made me suspend disbelief in a fictional universe filled with extra-terrestrials, metahumans, and most of Jack Kirby's Fourth World. I guess I just accepted it for what it is. Most people do otherwise he wouldn't be the most enduring superhero character in modern history.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    I guess I just accepted it for what it is. Most people do otherwise he wouldn't be the most enduring superhero character in modern history.
    People accept it because that's just part of the character. Like the concept of hyper-jacked dudes running around wearing their underwear over costumes that are essentially painted on. It's all ridiculous, but it's accepted because we're used to it. Doesn't mean that stuff like that isn't downplayed or outright abandoned occasionally, precisely because of how silly it is. Especially when making the transition to live-action.

  15. #55
    The Unstoppable Force Bakis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    24,400
    Affleck ugh, his history of movies is cosy/corny crap. Good Will Hunting is the one good that pops to mind and that probably mostly due to Mat and him being involved in the wrting and screenplay.

    To me Affleck is synonymous with shit like Pearl Harbor and with with an occasional "okey" performance in some thriller like Sum of all fears whatnot.
    He is talented now no question, just that I cant take him seriously having to put up with his movies since start.
    Ukraine’s government has officially registered the Moskva cruiser wreck on the Black Sea bottom as a national underwater cultural heritage site.

  16. #56
    I thought both of them were great in their roles. But while I'd argue Affleck wasn't irreplaceable, Henry Cavill is a godmode human who is irreplaceable, he is the best Superman not only for his physical attributes.

    I'd love to see both of them return to their roles and I'd also love the Snyderverse continued. Especially after the Snyder's Cut for Justice League showed how much more awesome it could have been if they gave him creative freedom.
    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    Blizzard do what the players want all the time.

  17. #57
    I am Murloc! KOUNTERPARTS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)╭∩╮
    Posts
    5,102
    Quote Originally Posted by Daedius View Post
    Bring back George!

    Don't you dare wish that evil upon us.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by threads View Post
    bale was the best batman.

    "SWEAR TO MEEEEEEEE"

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Bakis View Post
    Affleck ugh, his history of movies is cosy/corny crap. Good Will Hunting is the one good that pops to mind and that probably mostly due to Mat and him being involved in the wrting and screenplay.

    To me Affleck is synonymous with shit like Pearl Harbor and with with an occasional "okey" performance in some thriller like Sum of all fears whatnot.
    He is talented now no question, just that I cant take him seriously having to put up with his movies since start.
    If we are judging actors based on the previous movies they have been in, rather than their potential ability to do a part well....... poor Robert Pattinson. I try not to judge like that.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Trumpcat View Post
    I thought both of them were great in their roles. But while I'd argue Affleck wasn't irreplaceable, Henry Cavill is a godmode human who is irreplaceable, he is the best Superman not only for his physical attributes.

    I'd love to see both of them return to their roles and I'd also love the Snyderverse continued. Especially after the Snyder's Cut for Justice League showed how much more awesome it could have been if they gave him creative freedom.
    Ugh, Snydercut was 4 hours of slow-mo, logical inconsistency, bad writing and character assasination.

    Not saying Whedon made it that much better, but after watching the Snydercut I totally understood why the studio had Whedon hack it down.

    I cannot honestly think of a single redeeming factor of the Snydercut that made it better than the crap Whedon put out. The movie as a whole was crap, but adding MORE crap to it that does nothing for the story doesn't make it better.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by KOUNTERPARTS View Post
    Don't you dare wish that evil upon us.
    But it was the best film ever!


  20. #60
    I like Cavil in the role because he has the perfect look for Superman (and because I have an insane man-crush on him, but that's just an aside).

    Affleck was all right as an older Batman. He just doesn't have the raw gravitas or aged, apathetic, and grim wisdom I expect from the character. I also didn't care for the movies he was in, but that has more to do with the direction and costume than anything else. I want my Batman to be more detective and an agile and acrobatic combatant in a uniform he can move in, not a robotic dude who just punches everything as he waddles through a building because of the god-awful costume design and direction.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •