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  1. #261
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Yup, that is what I expected.
    Same to you. You weren't asking for sources because you actually wanted to learn anything. You were asking for sources so you could use terrible "logic" to try and prove it wrong. I've had these conversations before. It's pretty obvious what was going to happen. You're not in here for an honest conversation. You just want to deflect and deny.

    Again, don't really care if people "believe" that one site or not. There are discrepancies in data handling and weights that can account for a 10-20% shift in numbers that have nothing to do with Star Citizen and Wildstar reporting as having players. Overall player engagement is pretty good indicator. 10-20% is something that in actual academic papers would be unacceptable, but when comparing MMOs isn't so terribly bad.

    I've already provided plenty of data in the past in plenty of past conversations with people just like you. Again, find it truly hilarious that you claim WoW is the reigning champion by far over any other MMO with zero evidence then demand someone else provide a source when they claim differently. Where's your source? Wait, not even google analytics, player engagement, nor any evidence to support your claim? Who would have guessed! If there's one thing I have over you, it's SOME kind of source of information. (Psst, by the way, official data from census sites also paint a grim story, but again, you'd just whine and grab some random thing out of your ass to pick it apart)

    Woo tens of of thousands. So many. So what fraction would those be if the hypothetical player base was 500k. 1mil. More?
    Hahahahahaha, cute.

    By the way, there wasn't just one boosting discord. There were many. Everyone wanted a piece of the pie, and made their own communities.

    This is a thread about boosting. If boosting is pushed back under the rug and considered an illicit, bannable practice because of EU laws and Blizzard wanting to abide by them, I say "FUCKING GOOD". All of the people in this thread who have in the past said that "Nothing can be done about boosting" have always been wrong, that's not changed. It just requires will on the part of Blizzard. And if Blizzard never got the balls to have that will, I'm perfectly glad if some higher power forces it upon them.
    Last edited by Cthulhu 2020; 2022-08-10 at 01:15 AM.
    Plenty of people have been holding their breath waiting for me to fail. I think they all suffocated years ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zython View Post
    Just came here to remind people that the right has no moral conscious. If they ever try to morally scold you, it's not because they think what you're doing is wrong. Is because it's effective, and want to discourage you from doing it.

  2. #262
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    Same to you. You weren't asking for sources because you actually wanted to learn anything.
    Because the only source that matters is from the company themselves. And since WoW and FF do not report sub numbers that's that. You can guess, you can do whatever you want but it is only that a guess. It is not the right answer. Keep on believing in sites that make up numbers.

    Like I said I'd LOVE to know the sub numbers just so people would stop guessing at it. But nothing is accurate and many of these sites are wildly off because they post about dead games, minor games in alpha and all sorts of other wrong information that has been point out to you. And I'm the one that doesn't want to learn anything.

    You couldn't even leave my name in the quote because you didn't want me to reply. Tough shit.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    I've already provided plenty of data in the past in plenty of past conversations with people just like you.
    Flawed data is not useful. Wrong data is not useful.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    By the way, there wasn't just one boosting discord. There were many. Everyone wanted a piece of the pie, and made their own communities.
    Ooh now it is 'many' boosting discords. I bet tens of people made lots of money on this! So many.

  3. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by Trend View Post
    I'm guessing you're using "literally" as a meaningless fluff word to try to amplify your subjective dogmatism, or do you actually believe they won't be able to pay their bills if they put out another bad expansion?

    IMO the problem is that they very much can afford to keep putting out bad expansions. If bad expansions caused them not to be able to pay bills, then I think we would have seen changes a while ago.
    Ya know this is actually a super good point people don't make enough, even in context of other things. Like there's this huge problem in some professional sports where success has been completely decoupled from team profitability, so owners don't even bother spending money to try to win.

    This decoupling has actually happened with a ton of stuff in society, and games/streaming media are often a pretty good example. Studios like Disney can afford to keep putting out mediocre filler garbage because quality is frankly just not that important! people stay subbed anyway.

  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashana Darkmoon View Post
    Ya know this is actually a super good point people don't make enough, even in context of other things. Like there's this huge problem in some professional sports where success has been completely decoupled from team profitability, so owners don't even bother spending money to try to win.

    This decoupling has actually happened with a ton of stuff in society, and games/streaming media are often a pretty good example. Studios like Disney can afford to keep putting out mediocre filler garbage because quality is frankly just not that important! people stay subbed anyway.
    Or maybe people stay subbed because, get this,. they actually like it and don't think it is filler or garbage?

    People really need to stop projecting their opinion as fact. It causes disingenuous statements like yours.

  5. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    Or maybe people stay subbed because, get this,. they actually like it and don't think it is filler or garbage?

    People really need to stop projecting their opinion as fact. It causes disingenuous statements like yours.
    To be fair, I don't think @Ashana Darkmoon was referring to WoW, they were speaking in general (specifically about Disney/Marvel).

  6. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    Or maybe people stay subbed because, get this,. they actually like it and don't think it is filler or garbage?

    People really need to stop projecting their opinion as fact. It causes disingenuous statements like yours.
    That really misses the point! It's not projection, it's a real issue in a lot of areas. For example: if your fans keep coming to your games and buying merchandize even when the team sucks for 10 years straight, you have effectively decoupled success from profit. This is really bad if you are a fan of the game because you've effectively incentivized owners not to care about their teams!

    Now I mean, you can make the point that if fans show up, they clearly believe the experience is still worthwhile and so the product is fine. And maybe that's a convincing argument if you are a shareholder or have a financial stake in the [product] or something. But for fans who like the actual sport/game, it makes a much worse product overall! (it's also worse for the players since their value is based on their ability to win, and if winning isn't important...). Very easy to apply this to streaming stuff too in ways I'd think would be obvious.

    To be clear I don't think WoW is the MLB or i wouldn't be playing lol. But it the comment I was responding to did make an interesting point I thought was broadly applicable to a lot of things, including games! Put another way, the link between profit/popularity and however we define success may not be as casually linked as we all wish! Lots of other factors in play, like a continually growing sunk cost*.

    *the same reason I still suffer through playing shadow priest

  7. #267
    [QUOTE=Ashana Darkmoon;53875732]That really misses the point! It's not projection, it's a real issue in a lot of areas. For example: if your fans keep coming to your games and buying merchandize even when the team sucks for 10 years straight, you have effectively decoupled success from profit. This is really bad if you are a fan of the game because you've effectively incentivized owners not to care about their teams![/quyote]This is complete apples to oranges. Sports teeams are far differnt a video game because with a sports team you can actually show that they are bad by looking at the win/loss record. WIth a video game, it is complete opinion on if it is bad or not. YOu think the game is bad, but many others think the game is great. You are projecting your opinion of the game is fact.

    Now I mean, you can make the point that if fans show up, they clearly believe the experience is still worthwhile and so the product is fine. And maybe that's a convincing argument if you are a shareholder or have a financial stake in the [product] or something. But for fans who like the actual sport/game, it makes a much worse product overall! (it's also worse for the players since their value is based on their ability to win, and if winning isn't important...). Very easy to apply this to streaming stuff too in ways I'd think would be obvious.
    Again a video game and a sports team are not remotely comprable for the reasons I outlined above.

    To be clear I don't think WoW is the MLB or i wouldn't be playing lol. But it the comment I was responding to did make an interesting point I thought was broadly applicable to a lot of things, including games! Put another way, the link between profit/popularity and however we define success may not be as casually linked as we all wish! Lots of other factors in play, like a continually growing sunk cost*.

    *the same reason I still suffer through playing shadow priest
    But it isn't because sports teams are completely different in how you quantify good and bad. You can do that with sports teams as I mentioned. Video games being good or bad is strictly opinion because there are no numbers to quantify it.

  8. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    Again a video game and a sports team are not remotely comprable for the reasons I outlined above.
    Sure there are a lot of differences between the two, but there are also some marked similarities. The whole phenomenon in which people hang around WoW seemingly just to bitch about how bad it is has no closer parallel that I can think of than to the fanbases of any number of unsuccessful sports teams. There is a strange emotional connection to an entertainment product that keeps a sizable chunk of people pulled in.

  9. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by Trend View Post
    Sure there are a lot of differences between the two, but there are also some marked similarities. The whole phenomenon in which people hang around WoW seemingly just to bitch about how bad it is has no closer parallel that I can think of than to the fanbases of any number of unsuccessful sports teams. There is a strange emotional connection to an entertainment product that keeps a sizable chunk of people pulled in.
    It's worse with WoW than other fandoms because other fandoms still actively consume the products. If you were to compare WoW to SW, it'd be like half of SW's fanbase claiming the original trilogy was the best while admitting they haven't even watched any of the other movies.

  10. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    It's worse with WoW than other fandoms because other fandoms still actively consume the products. If you were to compare WoW to SW, it'd be like half of SW's fanbase claiming the original trilogy was the best while admitting they haven't even watched any of the other movies.
    I think you're generally right, but moment of truth here: my only connection with my university's athletic program is to talk about how much they suck and commiseration with fellow alums. Granted, I don't spend hours every day going on forums and whatnot like the raging WoW-hating lunatics, but I can see the parallel.

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