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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Motorman View Post
    There is a saying you reminded me of: “Don’t argue with idiots, they drag you to their level and then beat you with experience”.

    Have a nice summer I am off to my vacation keep fighting the good fight.
    Keep believing that there is some intrinsic, legal right to cheat at video games that means Discord's ToS that explicitly bans cheating is somehow invalid.

    I'm sure its a total coincidence that you declare victory and bail on the conversation as soon as I post the definition of "cheat" from four different dictionaries.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  2. #82
    dont use discord, just go to their website.

    i believe this comment closes this thread.

    /thread

  3. #83
    dont use discord. go directly to the website
    --- snip ---
    problem solved
    /thread
    Last edited by Aucald; 2022-08-06 at 04:41 PM. Reason: Removed Advertising Link

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Motorman View Post
    Is Discord a game then? I mean listen to yourself rofl.
    "You may not promote, distribute, or provide access to content involving the hacking, cracking, or distribution of pirated software or stolen accounts. This includes sharing or selling cheats or hacks that may negatively affect others in multiplayer games."

    That's the terms of service that everyone agrees to when they use discord.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Motorman View Post
    At this point I am 100% you haven’t read anything I posted so it is pointless to argue per my previous post
    The only way your argument is even comprehensible is if you are arguing that their ToS is invalid because you have a right to cheat, since the ToS clearly and emphatically states you cannot supply or sell cheats.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    I'm telling you now blizzard's moving towards removing the token and anything that can sway the games economy negatively.
    I will take that bet any day of the week. No shot they are removing WoW tokens. Its absolutely pointless. A) They will lose a lot of money B) It wont stop boosting. Look at classic if you need an example of how irrelevant the WoW token is to boosting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    Boosting violates the rules of the game.






    This is 100% incorrect. Boosting for in-game currency is allowed by Blizzard.




    Boosting "Communities" is whats no longer allowed and why the Discord servers were closed down.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    I don't see why Discord would bother enforcing another company's ToS... seems like it opens them up for liability that you'd think they would want to shy away from. It's far more likely, imo, that these are automated bans that will get turned over once an actual human being looks at them.
    If they assist players in violating the ToS they could possibly be sued for tortious interference.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tortious_interference
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    If they assist players in violating the ToS they could possibly be sued for tortious interference.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tortious_interference
    I strongly doubt there would be any litigation had Discord decided to stand their ground. Regardless, it seems more likely that rather than even risk the possibility they shut the communities down instead. I originally thought it was mass reporting but it seems it was actually at he behest of Blizzard due to how transparent most boosting communities were about the RMT-adjacent nature of the services they provide.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Motorman View Post
    Example:

    The “user” provides a boosting service. This is allowed by WoW so no problem. We know it’s allowed else 9/10 of the player base would be banned by now. We also know blizzard condones it because sure enough they can track where the token gold goes.

    So with “boosting is legal” out of the way let’s find the “breach of discord ToS”. “You may not…involving:

    HACKING: What hacking you have in mind?
    CRACKING: What cracking you have in mind?
    DISTRIBUTION OF PIRATED SOFTWARE: Again same question
    DISTRIBUTION OF STOLEN ACCOUNTS: Again same question.
    SELLING CHEATS OR HACKS: Be careful how they outplay everyone. It doesn’t say “using cheats or hacks it says SELLING them. So there goes the weak aura argument as well since it is not a cheat or a hack (legitimate software doing what it is expected to do).

    Since none of them happens you cannot apply this clause.

    So, to help discord and it’s fans: How do we ban someone as obnoxious as boosters without a chance they come back:

    “We have a right to deny you the service and terminate your account without an excuse and you signed up for that”.

    For around 20 posts now I have been asking why the hell not just terminate but instead add the stupidest of excuses that leaves them open to appeals.

    I hope this clarifies and you finally understand that I am not in favor of the boosters I just don’t get the discord stance which is at the very least unprofessional.

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    FINALLY SOMEONE UNDERSTANDS. And this is why Discord should have used a different clause to ban those servers because they weren’t cheating/hacking per the ToS so although the termination may be correct the grounds for termination are completely irrelevant.
    Weird to make such a long post and ignore that it says “This includes sharing or selling cheats or hacks that may negatively affect others in multiplayer games."

    It’s not about selling. It explicitly says sharing OR selling.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby451 View Post
    I will take that bet any day of the week. No shot they are removing WoW tokens. Its absolutely pointless. A) They will lose a lot of money B) It wont stop boosting. Look at classic if you need an example of how irrelevant the WoW token is to boosting.

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    This is 100% incorrect. Boosting for in-game currency is allowed by Blizzard.




    Boosting "Communities" is whats no longer allowed and why the Discord servers were closed down.
    The token has harmed the game period.
    Super Mario Maker 2: Maker ID 8B7-CTF-NMG

    - The subscription for WoW will be added to Gamepass Ultimate at no additional cost, mark my words.

  10. #90
    Dreadlord Molvonos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    The token has harmed the game period.
    You're entitled to your opinion.

    It's wrong, but it's yours.

    I'd rather buy my gold from a reputable source (especially one Blizz is ok with, for obvious reasons) and not have to worry about a. my money being stolen and no gold and b. getting banned for breaking ToS.

    Blizzard created the token for two reasons: to fight gold sellers and to provide a service people very clearly wanted and used.

    The Token did not harm anything, it simply made it 'cleaner' to acquire gold via cash that has ALWAYS been in the game (and every other MMO to fucking date).

    You seriously need to get over this weird ass idea you have about the wow token.
    Personal Preference and Opinions ≠ Facts, Truth, or Logic

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Molvonos View Post
    You're entitled to your opinion.

    It's wrong, but it's yours.

    I'd rather buy my gold from a reputable source (especially one Blizz is ok with, for obvious reasons) and not have to worry about a. my money being stolen and no gold and b. getting banned for breaking ToS.

    Blizzard created the token for two reasons: to fight gold sellers and to provide a service people very clearly wanted and used.

    The Token did not harm anything, it simply made it 'cleaner' to acquire gold via cash that has ALWAYS been in the game (and every other MMO to fucking date).

    You seriously need to get over this weird ass idea you have about the wow token.
    Also promoted buying. When you have a risk, at least some people will be deterred. When you have no risks, more people will do it. Fear of being caught and punished is incredibly powerful, see the laws system.

    I don't really care to say wether things are better or worse, but please don't pretend things are the same. Because they are definetely not.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    The token has harmed the game period.
    Chinese gold farmers would've harmed the game more.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    Chinese gold farmers would've harmed the game more.
    Sounds like Blizzard should have done something about that. You act like it’s inevitable when it’s perfectly controllable.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  14. #94
    Stood in the Fire VMSmith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    ...what if players find vertical progression fun? Fuck their experience because boosting exists and those darned Mythic raiders hate fun anyway, right? Or were you just vaguely handwaving some universal definition of fun in a video game, saying nothing at all and pretending like WoW's gear progression system which has operated just fine for two decades is suddenly a problem because a bunch of buttmad Redditors are upset their $15/mo doesn't come with a full set of Mythic gear?
    So, first off I'm going to point out that you didn't apologize for lying about what I said when you claimed I wanted Mythic gear for dailies quests, despite the fact that I said I want less extrinsic rewards. You completely reversed what I said and have no shame about it, instead choosing to double down by doing a new assertation of what I'm saying. You are dishonest.

    Second, I'll quote myself:

    Quote Originally Posted by VMSmith
    make content that is fun by itself regardless of reward for every level of play
    So, I don't doubt that people find "vertical progression" to be fun, but it's exactly the driver behind boosts - the reward is all that is cared about. And that's my point, the experience wrapped around that reward is not fun for many. M+ itself is not fun for most people, but they still desire the reward because progression is fun. You are, in fact, arguing my point ... that it's only the rewards driving people and not the experience.

    Now, sure, there are also many people that do find M+ fun. And good for them! But, again, that's why I say that there needs to be fun activities at ALL levels, and not just at the tippy-top most organized level. If fun, for most players, is just the hunt for better gear then you're going to get boosts ... because they want the reward but hate the process of getting the reward and boosts fulfill both needs for the player. And my original comment was driving to this, that if we want boosting to go away then the content itself needs to be fun in some way for everyone and rewards need to be minimized.

    Now, as you point out, WoW has been a gear progression system for a good while. I would argue that it hasn't been strictly that since launch because there's been plenty of experiments with content that was not gear-rewarding (like Mage Tower, Isle of Thunder, Tillers Farm, Legion Fisherfriends) but it has been the general thrust. The point is, if WoW is going to remain primarily gear-driven then you can never end boosting so you might as well embrace it fully. Boosting is a direct consequence of WoW being a rewards-driven game rather than an experience-driven game.

    If you choose to reply to me, start it with an apology for lying about what I posted in the first place, and then respond to the remainder politely, please. If your only interest is in scoring points and being an ass then I see no point in even talking to you and would rather not waste my time. Most of all, stop assuming what I think and read what I state I think, then respond to that rather than whatever bugaboo you got going on in your own head.

  15. #95
    Dreadlord Molvonos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loveliest View Post
    Also promoted buying. When you have a risk, at least some people will be deterred. When you have no risks, more people will do it. Fear of being caught and punished is incredibly powerful, see the laws system.

    I don't really care to say wether things are better or worse, but please don't pretend things are the same. Because they are definetely not.
    That logic makes absolutely no sense.

    They're obviously not the same, because people who are gonna buy gold, are gonna buy gold regardless.

    Who are you, or anyone else, to tell someone how to spend their money? If people want to buy gold, they should be able to buy gold -- some people work long hours and cant dedicate all the time that some people can, but want to be able to enjoy the game? Is your fragile ego so mortally wounded by someone who has the means (aka disposable income or perhaps money set aside for entertainment), buying gold so they can enjoy the game how they want?

    What you (and a lot of people) don't seem to get is that people are going to buy gold no matter what -- people who buy gold are under no certain terms ignorant of the idea of getting 'caught and banned'. In fact, it's one of the first things most of them think about (personal experiences, having been playing MMOs for three decades now, knowing a bunch of folks who bought gold from third parties), as a first hand experience.

    You wanna stand on your pedestal and claim some sort of weird moral superiority? Fine, but you're gonna look dumb as hell to a vast majority of people not sharing your funky echo chamber.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    Sounds like Blizzard should have done something about that. You act like it’s inevitable when it’s perfectly controllable.
    rofl, how much do you know about gold selling or any market that operates outside of the united states?

    Perfectly controllable. That's one of those r/confidentlyincorrect things yea?
    Personal Preference and Opinions ≠ Facts, Truth, or Logic

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Motorman View Post
    It’s weird that you use the word “delusional” and then try to teach me what ODR is because that’s the discord own rules. Discord itself says go to ODR, not me. Oh and it says it’s in addition to any other legal action in national courts where of course the damages sought are not in relation to gaming but in relation to actual monetary damages.

    Also you should probably come to understand but breach of rights is a breach regardless of what the right was being used for. Since there is not a single word in Discord ToS regarding “boosting” and as such it is a service being provided that doesn’t fall under any scope, it is pretty clear that discord used the wrong explanation to fix the issue at hand thus putting themselves in danger of being appealed for wrongful behavior.

    If you read me more carefully you would have understood that the argument I made was very simple: Since you can do as you please say that you do as you please don’t say you punish someone for something they clearly didn’t do.

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    What an educated response. I find it sad and pathetic that you get so aggravated when you clearly didn’t even bother to read. But hey at least you got that out of your system you seem pretty desperate to offend someone.

    P.S. It’s funny how you say “discord can’t be sued” when discord throws 2 pages of all legal actions that can be taken in relation to claims against discord. Even funnier that you think that somehow anything internet based is exempt from the laws that apply.

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    Life is full of laws doing exactly that.

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    They did not ban boosting, they banned large scale boosting under suspicion of RMT. If they were sure that the discord large scale boosting was using tokens they would have left it be. That’s the level of blizzard hypocrisy we are talking about.
    Laws dont stop shit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Delekii View Post
    Good for you. Probably not. Doesn't mean it can't be drastically reduced and made more difficult though. For example, if it can be proved that you have partaken in such activities, your account can be outright banned, thus making you go back to having nothing at all with a new account. Sounds good, right? The harder they make it, the less people are willing to take the risk.


    Ummmmm.

    No.
    It's not difficult, and it'll never be drastically reduced. If i create a gaming community outside of the game, charge a membership fee to join the community, and one of the activities of this community is running raids in various games, it violates no ToS.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Molvonos View Post
    rofl, how much do you know about gold selling or any market that operates outside of the united states?

    Perfectly controllable. That's one of those r/confidentlyincorrect things yea?
    Gold selling is negligible problem in plenty of games, and a non-existent one in plenty of others. I play those other games, so this is very easy to be confident about. If you play nothing but WoW and convince yourself that WoW's problems must be unsolvable because our lord and savior Blizzard would fix it if it was possible, I can understand why it is difficult to process.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinpachi View Post
    Laws dont stop shit.
    Yeah, remember when Ted Bundy got arrested and then kept killing people?
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  18. #98
    boosting service gone or diminished? ...thats just a crying shame
    People might actually have to play the game now
    imagine that

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    Gold selling is negligible problem in plenty of games, and a non-existent one in plenty of others. I play those other games, so this is very easy to be confident about. If you play nothing but WoW and convince yourself that WoW's problems must be unsolvable because our lord and savior Blizzard would fix it if it was possible, I can understand why it is difficult to process.

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    Yeah, remember when Ted Bundy got arrested and then kept killing people?
    "got arrested"
    the law didn't stop shit
    physical apprehension and imprisonment did.
    many laws are broken where people don't see a cuff or a cell, so people will continue to boost, and pay for boosting. deal with it.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    Are we talking Discord's ToS? Well, in the end, Discord can if seeing fit, shut any community down if they wish. They are already breaking WoW ToS, and just like on MMO-Champion, some fansites rather just shut it down right away if it breaks a supporting game's ToS.
    not against wow tos to boost for GOLD

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