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  1. #21
    The game is been out for over 15 years(or close to it). They have to change/add things to it otherwise people will just quit. Just like the level squish and then the rework on talents trees from Classic to BC To Warth to the mess we have now and back to talent trees. As the game ages, they have to come up with new to add new abilities but they can't just keep doing that coz you will have so many abilities to use. Instead, they have to reply or borrow powers to make you feel powerful/something change for that expansion and then remove those power so the next expansion they can add something again. You can only add/remove/change a class's abilities so much till you have no choice but to repeat old abilities back in.

    Is like tier sets they do away with tier sets coz there isn't much they can add without repeating what was done already in previous expansions. They are basically running out of ideas. i wish they would take a look at other mmo for ideas like FFXIV or GW2. They might not be on the market as long as WOW have but they can rework their class really well each expansion and are able to add new abilities without many issues (given that there is less class and spec in those game but still is something WOW can explore).

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Toppy View Post
    Titanforging predates Ion. It was a MoP feature.
    No that was thunderforging and warforging, both of which could only "forge" a handful of iLvls.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Echo of Soul View Post
    No that was thunderforging and warforging, both of which could only "forge" a handful of iLvls.
    Yes which Ion changed with the introduction of mythic+ vastly inflating ilvls, then brought back to the old way later forgetting why it was needed in the first place. Its disgenuine to say it was his when he's the one who both made the reason why it needed to be changed and then removed that change for no reason.
    World needs more Goblin Warriors https://i.imgur.com/WKs8aJA.jpg

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    I mean, you're asking when was the last time Blizzard went wild a few days after season 4 just started.

    So I'd say a few days ago.
    The state of kara compared to everything else makes me worried about dragonflights "4 old dungeons in the mix".

    And whoever voted for grimrail depot: f@#k you and I wish you had to run it 2 dozen times before the season ends or else your account get's suspended, this was a masterful example of why asking the masses that only think "choo-chooo train is cool" is bad.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    I call it "Great idea - terrible implementation". It has been Blizzards' motto for a long time already. Since Cata it started to feel more and more like their budget was cut despite of billion $ of revenue.
    That also extends to some of their boss encounter designs as well. Where you have bosses / encounters that should sound great on paper but it falls flat in execution. Hellfire Assault is one example I like to use. Turning a fortresses own defenses against itself to blast open the doors sounds like a great and engaging way to begin a raid. But it ends up being a boring add management fight with 1-3 mini bosses depending on difficulty.

  6. #26
    They always lock something needed for mythic riaidng behind it so...no?

    I think warfront where the one exception but they offered an absurd level of gear early on for new characters to make up for it.

  7. #27
    Blizzard doesn't go all the way on anything because they are terrified of making a huge mistake.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Linkedblade View Post
    Nah garrisons were player housing, you could pick where/which buildings you wanted. You're thinking of the mission table, which has been in every expansion since WoD.
    Garrison definitely isn't player housing. I'm honestly not even sure if the WoW framework would allow for the kind of player housing that people want without basically giving players access to dev tools. Everquest 2 did that, and has one of the best player housing set-ups of any MMO, the only problem being that it was in Everquest 2 and nobody really played that game. I still recommend checking it out because you could do some really cool stuff. I remember people making haunted houses complete with jump scares that you could go visit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caprias View Post
    And whoever voted for grimrail depot: f@#k you and I wish you had to run it 2 dozen times before the season ends or else your account get's suspended, this was a masterful example of why asking the masses that only think "choo-chooo train is cool" is bad.
    This, on both the draenor picks honestly. You know what would have made a cool M+? Sunken Temple, or Zul'Farrak in Tanaris. Cool drops, more open dungeons with a lot of different potential route. Instead we got one overly large dungeon with almost no real mechanics and another overly cramped dungeon with annoying and time consuming mechanics. GG community trolling the people who actually have to do these dungeons for rating and content until the new xpac.

    Edit: On topic, Blizzard has been the 'Monkey's Paw' for as long as I remember. You might get what you wish for, but it's going to be twisted or FUBAR. Torghast was really the biggest disappointment for me, as bliz COULD have made a reasonably fun rogue-lite that could keep people entertained for a while. Instead we got badly balanced hot garbage.
    Last edited by Goatfish; 2022-08-06 at 05:01 AM.

  9. #29
    Find the "talent tree" for the artifact weapons "went all the way". It was interesting minus the AP grind and was fun for a lot of people to see few new spells they get and the skins that came with them. Plus imo the scavenger hunt for the secret skins. Miss how the each class community came together to them.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Roanda View Post
    The new systems (for a long time now) are always:
    .Heavily Timegated
    .Heavily Restricted
    .Heavily Watered Down

    Examples:
    -Garrisons
    -Warmode
    -Warfronts
    -Isle Expeditions
    -Torghast
    -Visions

    Anyone else feels like the new systems always have incredible potential...endless vision...endless possibilities, AND THEN always end up being watered down versions of "no fun allowed" and "no risks taken"?

    Dragonflight looks promissing and IT SEEMS like they are going ALL THE WAY on th new talent system! Good.
    I hope they go "all the way" on Dragonflight's new systems somehow...

    I finish with a question:
    "When was the last time Blizzard wend WILD on world of warcraft?"

    I only remember corruption gear being completely insane and wild...in terms of power level
    Island Expeditions, and to a lesser extent Torghast are probably the only 2 things in there i personally (pay attention to that word) would have liked to see them double down on and go for broke.

    IE had so, SO much potential, and they just didnt resonate with me at all. I think the same thing but just a fun little adventure mode to play with casual friends, that scale from 1-10 players (including island size and objectives) with cosmetic only rewards would have been an amazingly fun distraction for me and my friends.

    Torghast was KIND OF fun, with the intentionally broken combos and builds - it was super fun at times, and a total chore much of the time. Maybe, just maybe, if they had made it the main feature of the expansion and expanded it greatly, it could have gone the way of arena and M+, instead of mage tower and garrisons.
    Last edited by arkanon; 2022-08-06 at 06:41 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Exkrementor View Post
    Nobody uses Online forums anymore.

  11. #31
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    Very successful games always become more conservative about their designs. The most obvious reason is that "wild" design is a risk and very often can kill a game outright. Blizzard's development team is full of theory crafters, engineers and the like that are by their nature not likely to be on the bleeding edge of creativity. Risk-averse is the watchword and it's very easy to see.

    The one thing that rings true about the topic is that Blizzard used to project and protect a reputation for continuous improvement and iteration. Once the switch was made to expansion-specific systems that only exist in the game for a relatively short while—a single expansion usually—the days of improvement through sustained iteration ended. They release a lot of half-baked systems based on interesting ideas, perhaps improve them once for the last patch of an expansion and move on to the next temporary system.

    So of course the quality and overall polish is reduced.
    Most people judge because thinking is hard.

  12. #32
    I think the biggest problem is a lack of resources. The xpac release schedule prohibits the devs from putting too much time/effort into a single system, in favor of diversity. As a result they've adopted a consistent shallow innovation loop, seemingly in hopes that they can take certain aspects/features from each of these systems to make future system more developed.

    Using a couple of the examples you provided:

    -Garrisons - They wanted more out of the feature, they wanted you to be able to choose which zone your Garrison was in, and they wanted race specific buildings/features, but they had to keep cutting back due to a lack of time/resources.

    -Warfronts - They wanted to develop multiple additional Warfronts that they had to cut because they didn't have the time and resources. They also wanted to make PVP Warfronts that they never got to.

    Thankfully they have become more successful in iterating on existing assets to improve future systems. Visions is a great example of this. By re-using almost all existing visual assets, they could put more time and effort into innovating the gameplay and rewards.

    My hope is that by making revamping old core systems the focus of this expansion, that will act as a groundwork to continue expanding upon systems that people loved and always wanted more out of.

    I know a lot of people think it will never happen, but it seems clear to me that player housing is inevitable. We currently have no capital city for Night Elves, Worgen, Gnomes, Undead, Trolls, or Goblins, that's half of what I would consider the "core" races. What better use of assets than to introduce new race capitals with the player housing feature. They can re-use all of the visual assets for two major features.

    To answer your question, I think the last time the devs truly went wild on a new feature, was the open-world content of the Timeless Isle in MoP. It was the last major feature that was beloved by the majority of the community and has been iterated on in a major way in every single expansion since. The other major features that have been introduced since, and have gone beyond their release expansion like the Mission Table, and World Quests, have been pruned back expansion over expansion rather than expanded upon, because people prefer the gameplay style of the open world.

    Regardless, I think they're headed in the right direction with Dragonflight. I'm excited for professions to be fun again.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Luxeley View Post
    Blizzard doesn't go all the way on anything because they are terrified of making a huge mistake.
    But they HAVE made huge mistakes and stayed committed for an entire xpac only to turn around at the start of the next one and be like 'yeah that obviously didn't work, so we're changing it this time around!"

    Like they couldn't just fucking change it in the middle of the xpac. Their retarded "hurr durr we only make major changes to gameplay systems and features in xpac releases and then they're set in stone for the next 2-3 years" is so stupid.

    Blizzard only goes half-assed, not out of fear like most people seem to be saying, but out of corporatized work IMO. They go for absolute MVP because it gets them the best return on investment. Making really cool systems with the correct amount of complexity is hard and time consuming.

    Why make voiced quests when people seem content to just faceroll wall'o'texts? Why make unique armor sets for each activity when people seem fine with resused/recolored models across all activities? Why do more than absolutely necessary?

    The problem is half their ideas aren't good in half-baked states, but they don't seem to care.
    Last edited by BeepBoo; 2022-08-06 at 07:47 AM.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Roanda View Post
    The new systems (for a long time now) are always:
    .Heavily Timegated
    This is because they want to prolong the life of the content without actually making content that is sustainable.


    Most content in WoW has a few rewards tied to it then there's no viable reason to continue doing said content.
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  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    But they HAVE made huge mistakes and stayed committed for an entire xpac only to turn around at the start of the next one and be like 'yeah that obviously didn't work, so we're changing it this time around!"

    Like they couldn't just fucking change it in the middle of the xpac. Their retarded "hurr durr we only make major changes to gameplay systems and features in xpac releases and then they're set in stone for the next 2-3 years" is so stupid.

    Blizzard only goes half-assed, not out of fear like most people seem to be saying, but out of corporatized work IMO. They go for absolute MVP because it gets them the best return on investment. Making really cool systems with the correct amount of complexity is hard and time consuming.

    Why make voiced quests when people seem content to just faceroll wall'o'texts? Why make unique armor sets for each activity when people seem fine with resused/recolored models across all activities? Why do more than absolutely necessary?

    The problem is half their ideas aren't good in half-baked states, but they don't seem to care.
    The ripcord was one of the worst lies they told in recent memory...

    If they were so committed why pretend they planned a way out?

  16. #36
    Torghast is the biggest missed opportunity recently imo.
    Screw balance in it, go balls to the walls with power. Don't make just a few layers and then try to balance the skills and layers since that results in having to tune things according to your skills power or vice versa. Make it just keep going up with layers automatically and let the skills determine how far you can go.

  17. #37
    Scarab Lord KOUNTERPARTS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormwolf64 View Post
    He didn't. Literally asking OTHER people for their opinions in the title.

    Yes, i agree with you OP

    No, he in fact did. Literally his last sentence.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    I mean, you're asking when was the last time Blizzard went wild a few days after season 4 just started.

    So I'd say a few days ago.

    We're going to run into the issue, with this thread in particular, of people posing examples of Blizzard going "all out" by 1 person but not viewed as "all out" by others.


    Season 4 as an example is a good example of doing something different for sure. I don't think "all the way" or "all out" but definitely in the realm of out of left field.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by KOUNTERPARTS View Post
    No, he in fact did. Literally his last sentence.

    - - - Updated - - -




    We're going to run into the issue, with this thread in particular, of people posing examples of Blizzard going "all out" by 1 person but not viewed as "all out" by others.


    Season 4 as an example is a good example of doing something different for sure. I don't think "all the way" or "all out" but definitely in the realm of out of left field.
    I mean you can be a pissant and be difficult for he heck of it, like you are now. OR you can just answer the question you know was there like a normal human being

  19. #39
    Scarab Lord KOUNTERPARTS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormwolf64 View Post
    I mean you can be a pissant and be difficult for he heck of it, like you are now. OR you can just answer the question you know was there like a normal human being

    Stop whining.

  20. #40
    they can't allow us to have fun now because everything is about the world first race and that mythic dungeon speedrun crap

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