DK talents WTF!?

[Obbi87]

First of all, I really love many of the new talents. REALLY cool compared to before.


BUT! why do I have to use my talent points to get spells, that I had before? Like Mind freeze, outbreak, SS, and so on.


feels bad when I lose something and then have to pay for it.

[arkanon]

First of all, I really love many of the new talents. REALLY cool compared to before.


BUT! why do I have to use my talent points to get spells, that I had before? Like Mind freeze, outbreak, SS, and so on.


feels bad when I lose something and then have to pay for it.

Pay for it? Or choose it?

[Obbi87]

Your spending points on standard spells you always had. That is not fun at all.

[DazManianDevil]

I kinda wish Blizz went a little harder on this, like give me damage reduction node if I skip out on kick talent.

[Kithelle]

This is how things were...and these how things were going to be, but some people really had to have "classic" talent trees back

[FelPlague]

First of all, I really love many of the new talents. REALLY cool compared to before.


BUT! why do I have to use my talent points to get spells, that I had before? Like Mind freeze, outbreak, SS, and so on.


feels bad when I lose something and then have to pay for it.

Same reason you had to back in 2008.
You get a couple base abilities, and then need to spend talent points to unlock the rest.

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Your spending points on standard spells you always had. That is not fun at all.

This is not true, you did not always have outbreak, outbreak was added in cata and scourge strike was literally a talent.

[huth]

First of all, I really love many of the new talents. REALLY cool compared to before.


BUT! why do I have to use my talent points to get spells, that I had before? Like Mind freeze, outbreak, SS, and so on.


feels bad when I lose something and then have to pay for it.

You don't "have to pay" for it. If they weren't there, you'd just get fewer points to play with.

[NineSpine]

The way you should be looking at this is not "I have to buy something I had before!". You should be saying "Now I can pick something else if I'd rather have that."

[ONCHEhap]

The way you should be looking at this is not "I have to buy something I had before!". You should be saying "Now I can pick something else if I'd rather have that."

Yup. Interrupts are a great example here actually.

A few players in your team can be dedicated interrupters and take the talents that give them a DPS boost one way or another for interrupting.
The others can use the points they save by not getting their interrupt somewhere else and gain another benefit that way.

[huth]

Yup. Interrupts are a great example here actually.

A few players in your team can be dedicated interrupters and take the talents that give them a DPS boost one way or another for interrupting.
The others can use the points they save by not getting their interrupt somewhere else and gain another benefit that way.

And then there's the situations where you don't actually need any interrupts.

[Alcsaar]

Same reason you had to back in 2008.
You get a couple base abilities, and then need to spend talent points to unlock the rest.

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This is not true, you did not always have outbreak, outbreak was added in cata and scourge strike was literally a talent.

There is a reason that old talent trees were removed. They didn't feel good.

[NineSpine]

There is a reason that old talent trees were removed. They didn't feel good.

They were removed to make room for borrowed power. How’d that go?

[Alcsaar]

They were removed to make room for borrowed power. How’d that go?

Uh classic talent trees have been gone for ages, long before borrowed power. And that is hardly an excuse to bring them back.

[ONCHEhap]

There is a reason that old talent trees were removed. They didn't feel good.

Now that's a bad take even by MMO-C standards

[Molvonos]

There is a reason that old talent trees were removed. They didn't feel good.

lol, no they weren't. Unless you've got some evidence backing up this wild claim, of course.

You do have that, don't you?

[Hctaz]

Same reason you had to back in 2008.
You get a couple base abilities, and then need to spend talent points to unlock the rest.

I wouldn't say that you had to spend talent points to "unlock the rest"

There were a handful of new abilities before but they were typically key components to the spec more so than the overall class. The class itself functioned entirely fine by itself, it's just that it was enhanced by the talent trees.

Something like an interrupt was almost always a baseline ability for classes that had one. Specifically, Death Knights have always had a baseline interrupt. Outbreak has been a standard part of Unholy for a little bit as well now, and it's also just less like the old specs in general.

Something like Frost Strike for Frost DK as an example: It wasn't a brand new ability, it was a replacement for another ability. You still would have a runic power spender prior to speccing into Frost Strike, it's just that you got a more powerful one this way. Same thing for Heart Strike and Scourge Strike.

Frost Strike replaced the baseline Death Coil, Heart Strike replaced the baseline Blood Strike, and Scourge Strike replaced the baseline Death Strike.
All Death Knights had Obliterate, but Frost was the only one that could use it without consuming their diseases on the target.

I completely understand the complaints here in this case.
The new talent trees just feel like worse versions of what we had in Classic. Instead of enhancing the base class that you had available, it just feels like they're giving you more freedom to accidentally make a mistake.

I can't really give a solution to this problem because I'm not a game dev, but I do think it's important feedback to give. The current DF talent trees mostly feel inferior to the Classic ones for one reason or another. Maybe the classes have just gotten so complicated to the point that a talent tree is just too messy.

Either way: All I know is that, even as a Classic diehard, I would rather them keep the talent trees out of retail if they're going to end up the way that they currently are. They just don't feel right.

[Ielenia]

Pay for it? Or choose it?

You have to spend points which you only get a limited amount, so technically you are "paying" for it.

Also, removing baseline abilities and force us to 'buy' them again in an effort to just make those talent trees big and mEaNiNgFuL is just outright dumb, and it shows a clear lack of creativity or unwillingness to actually be creative and develop actual new abilities to put in there.

Remember when we actually used to get new stuff with each new expansion? Now all we get are recycled, reduced versions of a select few borrowed powers from the previous expansion.

[arkanon]

You have to spend points which you only get a limited amount, so technically you are "paying" for it.

Also, removing baseline abilities and force us to 'buy' them again in an effort to just make those talent trees big and mEaNiNgFuL is just outright dumb, and it shows a clear lack of creativity or unwillingness to actually be creative and develop actual new abilities to put in there.

Remember when we actually used to get new stuff with each new expansion? Now all we get are recycled, reduced versions of a select few borrowed powers from the previous expansion.

This is getting beyond ridiculous now - the degree of dishonesty from some of you simply to be outraged is just pathetic.

[bloodmoth13]

Your spending points on standard spells you always had. That is not fun at all.

You get the points to get them back so its not really a problem is it? your not buying them with expensive currency they are just moved from innate to the talent system.

My guess is they want to add in new abilities but dont want to improve player power too much. This system lets you pay for new stuff by selling the old stuff. Alternatively they could just give us everything new and bloat our skillset but that brings in other problems.

[Ielenia]

This is getting beyond ridiculous now - the degree of dishonesty from some of you simply to be outraged is just pathetic.

Really? Where is the dishonesty? Did we not lose baseline abilities that were then placed in the talent trees for us to """""""choose""""""" again? Did we not stop getting new abilities each expansion and only got recycled, reduced versions of borrowed powers from previous expansion for quite some time now? Isn't most if not all of the new talent trees' active abilities things we already had?

It's easy to accuse of dishonesty anytime someone disagrees with you, but you gotta back it up.