DK talents WTF!?

[Bwgmon]

My guess is they want to add in new abilities but dont want to improve player power too much.

I'd imagine they also don't want to dive straight into "every class has at least a dozen utility buttons that let them handle every situation 1-4 times in a row" territory.

[huth]

There is a reason that old talent trees were removed. They didn't feel good.

And it wasn't this. Maybe you should go back and read up on why they removed them.

[Kumorii]

This is typical player behaviour. Want something brought back and anyone who thinks about for a second should know that if you get points for every lvl to allocate to talents, some of it will be old stuff you have a choice to pick again.

It was obvious that some skills would end up as talents. Having everything we have now as baseline and then add more stuff would be bloating everything.

With that said, talents aren't perfect and should be balanced and rearranged or changed depending on feedback.

[Venziir]

They were removed to make room for borrowed power. How’d that go?

Nonsense. They were removed in MoP, many years before borrowed power became a thing.

[bloodmoth13]

I'd imagine they also don't want to dive straight into "every class has at least a dozen utility buttons that let them handle every situation 1-4 times in a row" territory.

Yeah i hate that. Players complain about class homogeneity while also begging blizz for every tool for every situation for their class/spec.
Personally i dont want batmans utility belt with an answer to every situation. IMO classes and specs need weaknesses and group play should cover those weaknesses kind of like how healers cover the lack of healing in other specs and tanks cover the lack of mitigation in other specs, the same could be done for mobility, CC and other effects (things like rogues sprint also buffing the two allies with lowest movespeed or ghost wolf applying to allies with low movespeed for classes like priests with no mobility rather than giving sprint to priests)

[MightyWarrior]

as a warrior main whos very happy with his talent tree, I hope you get presences back

[Segus1992]

I kinda wish Blizz went a little harder on this, like give me damage reduction node if I skip out on kick talent.

I mean, they kinda do? Not kick specifically if that's what you meant but most interrupts.

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as a warrior main whos very happy with his talent tree, I hope you get presences back

I really like the warrior trees overall, but I don't understand why people are excited for stances, with the exception being an increased dps potential as a prot warrior. Beyond that, they're nowhere near as exciting as they once were.

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There is a reason that old talent trees were removed. They didn't feel good.

No, they became too hard to balance since they added a row each expansion.

[wushootaki]

Nonsense. They were removed in MoP, many years before borrowed power became a thing.

MoP had a legedendary cloak that was given to everyone --- that became useless afterwards. It literally set the foundation for the borrowed power system (outside set bonuses).

MoP is the guideline expansion for every xpac that came after it --- all still building upon the Timeless Isle model.

Don't believe me?

Garrisons were an iteration on the farm.

We got more legendaries with more unique effects starting in Legion.

WoD experimented with borrowed power via zones based on buildings you chose, another iteration on farming combined with the idea of a special ability.

World Events legit just tell you where the events (ala timeless isle style) are currently at.

Covenant Sanctums? Further iteration on the garrisons, which again were started with the farm in MoP.

[Th3Scourge]

The DK class has some of the least baseline abilities amongst all the classes. It's really quite pathetic.

They could've been really creative with the trees, instead it's just filled with baseline abilities and a couple of legendary/azerite/conduit effects

[Kralljin]

This is how things were...and these how things were going to be, but some people really had to have "classic" talent trees back

AMS, Mind Freeze nor IBF were ever a talent at any point.

This argument is just plain ignorant.

[NineSpine]

Nonsense. They were removed in MoP, many years before borrowed power became a thing.

MoP didn’t have it because the talent system was new. They work on the next two expansions at a time.

[Lolites]

You get the points to get them back so its not really a problem is it?

well, kinda is, as a frost DK i actualy cant pick up all the abilities i have now bcs they are on oposite sides of spec tree...
i basicaly have to pick which abilities i have now i want to KEEP and that feels reaally bad... kinda like removing borowed powers just this time its not blizz who pick whats staying

[klaps_05]

The new system is set up to make the game easier for new players. Except given the age and complexity of the game, I highly doubt there is any significant new players growth. The idea is that by building your spellbook, you have time to learn. Would have been a lot better for each class to be fully functional with their spellbook and then use the talents to enhance that spellbook based on the activity the person wants to do.

[Groundwalker]

In my opinion the new Death Knight talent trees are really bland when compared to others that have been released. And that is unfortunate as I was looking forward to having a DK as a main in Dragon Flight. The festering wound system for Unholy is terrible, and should be removed. If festering wound remains then Blizzard should give Unholy a new playstyle option in the updated talent trees. Lets hope to see some improvements to DK's especially unholy before launch.

[Kithelle]

AMS, Mind Freeze nor IBF were ever a talent at any point.

This argument is just plain ignorant.

I'm sorry it's true though "shrugs"

Just because they weren't talents back then doesn't negate the fact core abilities were placed in the "classic" trees and people had to know this was gonna happen...I've been saying this for years, that if they ever go back to a more classic like talent system that it will mostly be just buying back abilities and boosts that we got passively as we leveled in the current system

[ParanoiD84]

Feral is also a huge disappointment, well atleast they have some time to fix and improve but i doubt much will change it's just the way it will be some trees and classes will be much better off then others.

[hzjf]

They were removed to make room for borrowed power. How’d that go?

talent trees are borrowed power
tier sets are borrowed power
old legendarys are borrowed power

[Kralljin]

I'm sorry it's true though "shrugs"

It's not.

We can all argue about what defines a core ability, but the fact of the matter is, AMS, IBF nor Mind Freeze weren't on the talent tree but baseline abilities.
Arguing against this is just arguing against reality, because literally everyone can check the Wotlk talent trees for themselves - and that's when the talent trees were the most expansive.

Like seriously, people that argue this are just trying to get a "gotcha" out of anyone who argued in favour of talent trees, despite the fact that previously you still had a, by comparison, expansive baseline toolkit.

talent trees are borrowed power
tier sets are borrowed power
old legendarys are borrowed power

C'mon, let's take then one step further and say life itself is a borrowed power system.

[Goatfish]

Really? Where is the dishonesty? Did we not lose baseline abilities that were then placed in the talent trees for us to """""""choose""""""" again? Did we not stop getting new abilities each expansion and only got recycled, reduced versions of borrowed powers from previous expansion for quite some time now? Isn't most if not all of the new talent trees' active abilities things we already had?

It's easy to accuse of dishonesty anytime someone disagrees with you, but you gotta back it up.

It's because 2 different things are going on, but you fail to recognize the second thing at all and instead just bitch about the first. In the vast majority of cases so far, taking away something baseline and putting it into the talent tree is making that option available to the other specs. You can still get these abilities in your build just fine, and without sacrificing really anything in order to get them, but they become available to other specs to create the potential for new builds or just more interesting gameplay.

Even looking at the worst of cases, you might be giving up guaranteed access to one thing to get potential access to 10 things you would have never had access to previously.

That's why people call it dishonesty. Not because you are lying, but because you are omitting a lot of very important and obvious details that make your argument a hell of a lot weaker.

[NineSpine]

talent trees are borrowed power
tier sets are borrowed power
old legendarys are borrowed power

Talent trees are not borrowed power.