Dracthyr classes

[Varx]

For those of you that don't know, the evokers starting experience has a few books detailing the origins of the dracthyr.

One of the books states that evokers are the elite of the elite, meaning that not all dracthyr are evokers. This was my original theory as to how we might get more classes added to dracs down the line.

With the obsidian wardens and dark talons joining the alliance and horde, it's inevitable that some dracthyr will want to pursue the way of the warrior or mage.

Will it be for the final patch of DF or maybe at the start of 11.0? Who knows but it's more than certain.

That being said, what classes will dracthyr have, assuming blizzard doesn't open up all classes to all races....


Now warrior, mage, rogue, hunter, and priest are a given. Since all races will be all of those classes come DF. But what else....

DK and DH, unlikely as they'd need an entire new intro.

Shaman and druids, Dont see why not. Though perhaps the conflict between the primalists and aspects might be a reason not to have shaman.

Monk, 4 limbs, check.

Warlock, if there isn't some silly lore that dragons are against using fel, then sure.

Paladin, the dragons connection to Tyr mean ls they'd probably join the silver hand in honor of Tyr. There's even a statue in thaldrazus with a Female Titan keeper holding the silver hand.


So there you go, I already started creating a drac paladin I'm the wowhead dressing room for the day they're available

[Teriz]

Why does this keep getting brought up over and over again?

This is the new DH should be more races, or DHs should get a third spec. We’re what? 7 years since the announcement of Legion and DHs, and they’re still confined to 2 races and 2 specs.

If you’re a Dracthyr, you’re stuck playing an Evoker.

[Throwme]

We’re what? 7 years since the announcement of Legion and DHs, and they’re still confined to 2 races and 2 specs.

Unfortunately for those of us that accept that, Blizzard has shown us that changes can happen. Look how long it took for DKs to get more races added. And all the other class/race combos that have been expanded during the lifetime of the game. It's that hope that people like the OP are clinging to. Not because they aaaaactually want to play a Drac Warrior or Drac Lock, but because "OMGOMGOMG IT COULD TOTALLY HAPPEN AND THIS THING I FOUND PROVES IT".

[Lochton]

Wrong section and there are already threads about this.

[Vaedan]

For those of you that don't know, the evokers starting experience has a few books detailing the origins of the dracthyr.

One of the books states that evokers are the elite of the elite, meaning that not all dracthyr are evokers. This was my original theory as to how we might get more classes added to dracs down the line.

With the obsidian wardens and dark talons joining the alliance and horde, it's inevitable that some dracthyr will want to pursue the way of the warrior or mage.

Will it be for the final patch of DF or maybe at the start of 11.0? Who knows but it's more than certain.

That being said, what classes will dracthyr have, assuming blizzard doesn't open up all classes to all races....


Now warrior, mage, rogue, hunter, and priest are a given. Since all races will be all of those classes come DF. But what else....

DK and DH, unlikely as they'd need an entire new intro.

Shaman and druids, Dont see why not. Though perhaps the conflict between the primalists and aspects might be a reason not to have shaman.

Monk, 4 limbs, check.

Warlock, if there isn't some silly lore that dragons are against using fel, then sure.

Paladin, the dragons connection to Tyr mean ls they'd probably join the silver hand in honor of Tyr. There's even a statue in thaldrazus with a Female Titan keeper holding the silver hand.


So there you go, I already started creating a drac paladin I'm the wowhead dressing room for the day they're available

I thought about Dracthyr DHs having altered animations, like instead of metamorphosis having Dragon form instead and spells having draconic theme... It would be really cool.

I really hope some more controversial race/class combos will include special stuff like that.

[Varx]

Why does this keep getting brought up over and over again?

This is the new DH should be more races, or DHs should get a third spec. We’re what? 7 years since the announcement of Legion and DHs, and they’re still confined to 2 races and 2 specs.

If you’re a Dracthyr, you’re stuck playing an Evoker.

Since it's inevitable. Even now with the edicts revealing that not all dracthyr are evokers

[Nightshade711]

Why does this keep getting brought up over and over again?

This is the new DH should be more races, or DHs should get a third spec. We’re what? 7 years since the announcement of Legion and DHs, and they’re still confined to 2 races and 2 specs.

If you’re a Dracthyr, you’re stuck playing an Evoker.

Because not all Dracthyr are Evokers, as seen in the Starting Zone. Evoker is a special title given to the elite of the Dracthyr.
Besides, they've actually already said that Dracthyr could become other classes after Dragonflight.

Not to mention they've already put in the time to add all of the animations for Rogue, Warrior, and Hunter to Dracthyr... why would they do that if they weren't planning on opening up those classes up to the Dracthyr down the line?

They've never said that other races could become DHs, and they've never added DH animations to the other races.

[Teriz]

Since it's inevitable.

LoL! You're free to believe that, but just like Demon Hunters getting more races or more specs, you're going to be right here years from now wondering where the non-Evoker Dracthyr are.

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Because not all Dracthyr are Evokers, as seen in the Starting Zone. Evoker is a special title given to the elite of the Dracthyr.

So wouldn't that mean that if you're a Dracthyr and not an Evoker you're some sort of reject or mentally disabled?

Besides, they've actually already said that Dracthyr could become other classes after Dragonflight.

Not to mention they've already put in the time to add all of the animations for Rogue, Warrior, and Hunter to Dracthyr... why would they do that if they weren't planning on opening up those classes up to the Dracthyr down the line?

They've never said that other races could become DHs, and they've never added DH animations to the other races.

They put the time in to give Goblins and Worgen Monk animations. Still no Goblin or Worgen Monks.

That was over 10 years ago.

[AngerFork]

At earliest, I'd think this would be for 11.0. There's a lot of work to be done to add Dracthyr for other classes...weapon animations, spell animations, figuring out if their racials are properly set vs. the Evoker abilities, figuring out how to show armor on the model if at all, etc.

If we do get them, my guess is that they'll be everything eventually outside of DH & DK since that seems to be the overall plan Blizz has for the other race/class combos, so why not? DKs are a bit tricky as I suspect Blizz wants DKs to be everything, but there's not a great way/reason to make Dracthyr DKs at this point. DHs...if we get some weird plot twist where more races get them, sure. Otherwise I don't see it.

[Nightshade711]

LoL! You're free to believe that, but just like Demon Hunters getting more races or more specs, you're going to be right here years from now wondering where the non-Evoker Dracthyr are.

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They put the time in to give Goblins and Worgen Monk animations. Still no Goblin or Worgen Monks.

That was over 10 years ago.

Goblins and Worgen have the same animation because of the whole 'shared rig/animations' thing that all of the other races have.
(That is why Nightborne were able to have the Tauren animations load on them via a bug... like this)

It is also why Pandaren had DK animations even before being allowed to be DKs.

If Dracthyr were that way as well then they'd have more class animations, but they don't for now.

Thankfully, Blizzard disagrees with most, if not all of your opinions behind what the Dracthyr can/can't do. (Like when you said Dracthyr shouldn't wear armor, shouldn't have visible weapons, should have actual quadrupedal dragon forms, should be based entirely off of HotS... the list goes on.)

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They put the time in to give Goblins and Worgen Monk animations. Still no Goblin or Worgen Monks.

Also don't think they've ever said that Goblins/Worgen could be Monks... whereas they said Dracthyr could be other classes in the future.

[Teriz]

Goblins and Worgen have the same animation because of the whole 'shared rig/animations' thing that all of the other races have.
(That is why Nightborne were able to have the Tauren animations load on them via a bug... like this)

It is also why Pandaren had DK animations even before being allowed to be DKs.
If Dracthyr were that way as well then they'd have more class animations, but they don't for now.

Thankfully, Blizzard disagrees with most, if not all of your opinions behind what the Dracthyr can/can't do. (Like when you said Dracthyr shouldn't wear armor, shouldn't have visible weapons, should have actual quadrupedal dragon forms, should be based entirely off of HotS... the list goes on.)

So you view optional Barbershop gear as actual armor?

Okay.....

As for the class itself, last I checked, the Evoker has the abilities of actual dragons. I'm pretty sure that was the class you were railing against for several months before the reveal.

Again, if Blizzard ever intended for Dracthyr to be other classes, they'd be other classes now. With that said, I'm not going to waste time trying to convince you otherwise.

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At earliest, I'd think this would be for 11.0. There's a lot of work to be done to add Dracthyr for other classes...weapon animations, spell animations, figuring out if their racials are properly set vs. the Evoker abilities, figuring out how to show armor on the model if at all, etc.

If we do get them, my guess is that they'll be everything eventually outside of DH & DK since that seems to be the overall plan Blizz has for the other race/class combos, so why not? DKs are a bit tricky as I suspect Blizz wants DKs to be everything, but there's not a great way/reason to make Dracthyr DKs at this point. DHs...if we get some weird plot twist where more races get them, sure. Otherwise I don't see it.

One big problem you're going to have is getting gear unto the Dracthyr model. 2H weapons, Shields, Cloaks, and other gear clip with the wings and the tail right off the bat. I don't see Blizzard wasting time fixing that issue, especially when the Dracthyr work just fine as being only Evokers.

[Varx]

So you view optional Barbershop gear as actual armor?

Okay.....

As for the class itself, last I checked, the Evoker has the abilities of actual dragons. I'm pretty sure that was the class you were railing against for several months before the reveal.

Again, if Blizzard ever intended for Dracthyr to be other classes, they'd be other classes now. With that said, I'm not going to waste time trying to convince you otherwise.

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One big problem you're going to have is getting gear unto the Dracthyr model. 2H weapons, Shields, Cloaks, and other gear clip with the wings and the tail right off the bat. I don't see Blizzard wasting time fixing that issue, especially when the Dracthyr work just fine as being only Evokers.

I dunno if your being cynical or just don't want it to happen.

There won't be no clipping. Shields and swords will be sheathed same way we do now with special back pieces. The weapon just disappears.

And again, the edicts outright say that not all dracthyr are evokers. Now that two groups of dracthyr join the H and A, you really think they won't learn other methods of combat?

Just because it's been yeara since legion and still no DH races have been added doesn't mean we won't get them.


For all we know, 11.0 will open up all race class combos. As an expansion feature.

[Teriz]

I dunno if your being cynical or just don't want it to happen.

There won't be no clipping. Shields and swords will be sheathed same way we do now with special back pieces. The weapon just disappears.

And again, the edicts outright say that not all dracthyr are evokers. Now that two groups of dracthyr join the H and A, you really think they won't learn other methods of combat?

Just because it's been yeara since legion and still no DH races have been added doesn't mean we won't get them.


For all we know, 11.0 will open up all race class combos. As an expansion feature.

Okay, let's roll with this idea; What's the point of the draconic form if you have Warrior or Rogue abilities? Further, if the weapons simply disappear, don't you think most people would PREFER to stay in Visage form so that they can actually see their gear? You see, with the Evoker class, the Dragon form makes sense, because you need to be a dragon to do dragon abilities. However, you DON'T need a dragon form to do Rogue or Warrior abilities, so again, what's the point of a gimped dragon form?

As for 11.0 opening all race-class combos, I wouldn't bet on that. Some classes such as Druids and Demon Hunters would require TONS of additional work and models to make them applicable for all races.

[Varx]

Okay, let's roll with this idea; What's the point of the draconic form if you have Warrior or Rogue abilities? Further, if the weapons simply disappear, don't you think most people would PREFER to stay in Visage form so that they can actually see their gear? You see, with the Evoker class, the Dragon form makes sense, because you need to be a dragon to do dragon abilities. However, you DON'T need a dragon form to do Rogue or Warrior abilities, so again, what's the point of a gimped dragon form?

As for 11.0 opening all race-class combos, I wouldn't bet on that. Some classes such as Druids and Demon Hunters would require TONS of additional work and models to make them applicable for all races.

The point is that you're a humanoid dragon that's a warrior, that's the race. That's it. Again not every dracthyr is an evoker. The weapons would only disappear if sheathed on a character's back. They'd appear when used in combat. Plus right now only a few evoker abilities make you shift from visage to dragon. I'd imagine for other classes the only thing that would force a shift would be the active dracthyr racials.

That's why it'd be a major 11.0 feature. Keep in mind 11.0 is the 10th expansion on wow's 20th anniversary also.

If blizzard can remake the entire old world for cata and introduce a new class and race while simultaneously changing the talent system twice for mop and DF, I'm sure they could make a bear , cat, moonkin, and travel forms for every race.

[Teriz]

The point is that you're a humanoid dragon that's a warrior, that's the race. That's it.

1. Except that draconic form presents a host of problems for both gear and armor. You said yourself that a Dracthyr warrior for example can't show their weapons or shield on their backs due to their wings and tail. That makes the Dracthyr warrior a bit worse off than other races. Further, standard armor doesn't work with the Dracthyr model, which is why they have race-specific armor. Why would you roll a Dracthyr warrior when they can't show armor or weapons properly? That's a cornerstone of being a warrior, and Dracthyr can't properly do it.

2. The visage form doesn't have these problems at all, so the ACTUAL Dracthyr form is actually worse than the supplemental form.

Again not every dracthyr is an evoker. The weapons would only disappear if sheathed on a character's back. They'd appear when used in combat. Plus right now only a few evoker abilities make you shift from visage to dragon. I'd imagine for other classes the only thing that would force a shift would be the active dracthyr racials.

Again, the weapons disappearing when sheathed is a huge problem, as is the draconic Dracthyr form not being able to properly wear standard armor.

That's why it'd be a major 11.0 feature. Keep in mind 11.0 is the 10th expansion on wow's 20th anniversary also.

Yeah, don't bet on it.

[AngerFork]

One big problem you're going to have is getting gear unto the Dracthyr model. 2H weapons, Shields, Cloaks, and other gear clip with the wings and the tail right off the bat. I don't see Blizzard wasting time fixing that issue, especially when the Dracthyr work just fine as being only Evokers.

For sure, that's likely the biggest issue and one of the main reasons I imagine they haven't yet gone back on only Evokers. But that's an issue that's going to come up in other ways as well. Need to hold a certain polearm for a "throw the spear" quest? You'll need that to show up on a Dracthyr. Some toys will likely need some of that same placement as well. Without those adjustments, Dracthyr may well feel like a really weird outsider race. FFXIV players have already seen this with Viera/Hrothgar & their lack of usable hats (as well as how frustrated this has made many players).

While it's something Blizz can get away with short term, the longer it goes the more Blizz will either need to devote dev time to it or watch Dracthyr players post on the forums when they find they can't use certain toys/quest animations.

[Varx]

1. Except that draconic form presents a host of problems for both gear and armor. You said yourself that a Dracthyr warrior for example can't show their weapons or shield on their backs due to their wings and tail. That makes the Dracthyr warrior a bit worse off than other races. Further, standard armor doesn't work with the Dracthyr model, which is why they have race-specific armor. Why would you roll a Dracthyr warrior when they can't show armor or weapons properly? That's a cornerstone of being a warrior, and Dracthyr can't properly do it.

2. The visage form doesn't have these problems at all, so the ACTUAL Dracthyr form is actually worse than the supplemental form.




Again, the weapons disappearing when sheathed is a huge problem, as is the draconic Dracthyr form not being able to properly wear standard armor.



Yeah, don't bet on it.

If you roll a dracthyr then you know you're not gonna see you're armor in dragon form. So it doesn't matter. Just stay in visage form of it matters so much and don't use the active racials to morph you, simple. Regardless you know what your signing up for being a drac.

I mean evokers aren't excempt from armor either... No class is. Yet it's okay that drac form for dracthyr doesn't show evoker gear?

At the end of the day. You can't compare DHs and evokers

DH are just a class that can at least be played by two races.

Dracthyr evokers are a class AND a race. That's much more player restriction than DH ever was.

And on top of that even, it's cannon that not all dracthyr are evokers. What do you think is gonna eventually happen when the none evoker dracthyr are chilling with 12 other classes in Sw and org. "Oh my giga Chad brother is an evoker, I wish there was an alternate route I could take"

Come on man. It's clear as day.

Again are you just cynical on blizzard delivering or do you think dracthyr warriors are gonna ruin the race?

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For sure, that's likely the biggest issue and one of the main reasons I imagine they haven't yet gone back on only Evokers. But that's an issue that's going to come up in other ways as well. Need to hold a certain polearm for a "throw the spear" quest? You'll need that to show up on a Dracthyr. Some toys will likely need some of that same placement as well. Without those adjustments, Dracthyr may well feel like a really weird outsider race. FFXIV players have already seen this with Viera/Hrothgar & their lack of usable hats (as well as how frustrated this has made many players).

While it's something Blizz can get away with short term, the longer it goes the more Blizz will either need to devote dev time to it or watch Dracthyr players post on the forums when they find they can't use certain toys/quest animations.

But evokers will have to deal with those same quests...

Evokers also use two handed weapons that disappear when sheathed....

What's the difference???

[Teriz]

If you roll a dracthyr then you know you're not gonna see you're armor in dragon form. So it doesn't matter. Just stay in visage form of it matters so much and don't use the active racials to morph you, simple. Regardless you know what your signing up for being a drac.

That's not a valid solution. The problem is that people WON'T roll a Dracthyr because of these limitations, rendering all of Blizzard's work to make this race available to other classes pointless.

Also if the goal is to simply remain in Visage form, what's the point of this in the first place? We already have elven races and humans.

I mean evokers aren't excempt from armor either... No class is. Yet it's okay that drac form for dracthyr doesn't show evoker gear?

Yes, because the entire point of the Evoker is to be a dragon, and the actual Dracthyr form is the draconic form. With dragons, armor is an optional thing, which is why Dracthyr Evokers have the option to fight without wearing any armor at all in draconic form. This isn't the case with the other classes like Rogues or Warriors which are highly based on weapon attacks and abilities.

At the end of the day. You can't compare DHs and evokers

DH are just a class that can at least be played by two races.

Dracthyr evokers are a class AND a race. That's much more player restriction than DH ever was.

And on top of that even, it's cannon that not all dracthyr are evokers. What do you think is gonna eventually happen when the none evoker dracthyr are chilling with 12 other classes in Sw and org. "Oh my giga Chad brother is an evoker, I wish there was an alternate route I could take"

It's also canon that Demon Hunters can be spellcasters. You see any way for a DH player to be a spellcaster? It's canon that Druids can turn into Wolves, Spiders, and Snakes. You see any playable Druids able to do that? Just because something can happen in lore doesn't mean its going to be playable.

[Varx]

That's not a valid solution. The problem is that people WON'T roll a Dracthyr because of these limitations, rendering all of Blizzard's work to make this race available to other classes pointless.

Also if the goal is to simply remain in Visage form, what's the point of this in the first place? We already have elven races and humans.



Yes, because the entire point of the Evoker is to be a dragon, and the actual Dracthyr form is the draconic form. With dragons, armor is an optional thing, which is why Dracthyr Evokers have the option to fight without wearing any armor at all in draconic form. This isn't the case with the other classes like Rogues or Warriors which are highly based on weapon attacks and abilities.



It's also canon that Demon Hunters can be spellcasters. You see any way for a DH player to be a spellcaster? It's canon that Druids can turn into Wolves, Spiders, and Snakes. You see any playable Druids able to do that? Just because something can happen in lore doesn't mean its going to be playable.

Are you kidding. Not having armor in dracthyr form isn't gonna keep people from race changing I promise you.

The fact that you have the option to fight as a dragon or humanoid is awesome. It's a great fantasy. You change as you want to.

Dude come on... One class for one race and vice versa.... I'll be surprised that lasts past 11.3.

But anyway. Rouges and warriors aren't throwing their shoulder pads at people. Hell you can be naked and still roll heads. What matters is the weapons. Which they can still use obviously.

A dracthyr warrior is a dragon that swings a sword because they weren't Chad enough to be an evoker.

They have armor in their visage form like their evoker siblings but magically "lose" it when in dragon form but still magically gain their benefit. Just like how mechagnomes still benefit from their boots and leg armor even though they somehow lose it. My head cannon is that they digitize it and absorb it, lol.

[AngerFork]

But evokers will have to deal with those same quests...

Evokers also use two handed weapons that disappear when sheathed....

What's the difference???

Have we actually seen any footage of the Dracthyr holding weapons in their draconic form yet? I've not seen any if so, but I may have missed them.

Otherwise, what you've said is largely the point I'm making. If Evokers need to do those same quests, Blizz will have to make something so that they can do so, otherwise the race/class is going to feel like it's missing something animation-wise in the near future. Once those are in, I'm not sure I see any other good reason not to open the flood gates to new Dracthyr classes. The sooner Blizz fixes that & puts decent weapon placements/animations on the Dracthyr model, the less dev time they'll have to waste trying to force a temporary solution for such quests in the future.