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  1. #181
    Bloodsail Admiral Nightshade711's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Well yeah I don't expect more classes for dracs for the entirety of DF, I mean of we get it sooner then great but I highly doubt it.

    Again, I just don't agree with your opinion. Have such an awesome race be forced for one class kills lots of possibilities for many players at the cost of everything while the opposite brings so much at the cost of nothing or personal biases such as yours. But I er all it'll be a good thing for the longevity of the game and the race.

    As for evokers, there's even ways to give that to be other races too.

    Lore wise, a council of drac evokers empower the .mortal races.

    Mechanic wise, using abilities that need dracthyr anatomy would morph you into an ethereal dragon form like how Eye beam for dhs turn them into meta for the spell's animation.

    Boom
    Tbh in theory they could just give Evokers to other races and they’d have a Dracthyr form as part of their customization and the base race would be their “natural”/visage form.
    We’ll see in the animated short for the origins of the Dracthyr, but I’m pretty sure Dracthyr are just mortals infused with the draconic power anyways like some Drakonids.

    But if they aren’t like that, then it’s still something that’s possible to be done in ways like you said. In the future a Council of Evokers empower mortals so they can too turn into a Dracthyr similar to the Drakonids.

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade711 View Post
    Tbh in theory they could just give Evokers to other races and they’d have a Dracthyr form as part of their customization and the base race would be their “natural”/visage form.
    We’ll see in the animated short for the origins of the Dracthyr, but I’m pretty sure Dracthyr are just mortals infused with the draconic power anyways like some Drakonids.

    But if they aren’t like that, then it’s still something that’s possible to be done in ways like you said. In the future a Council of Evokers empower mortals so they can too turn into a Dracthyr similar to the Drakonids.
    Yeah I see it as like a different colored dracthyr shaped elemental form for each race. Like a "projection" of their dragonsoul to allow them to perform those abilities.

    So like a blue one for humans, red for orcs, a voidy one for velves,. A light one for lfd, a maldraxxus anima sickly green one for undead, fire for belves, a water one for kultirans, a mechanical one for mechahnomes, etc etc

    But it wouldn't be like a form they can just switch in and out from as if they were dracthyr.

    It'd only happen for certain spell's same way eye beam work for DHs turning them into meta for the animation.

    It'd be like the evoker's totem, paladin charger, druid forms, meta.
    Last edited by Varx; 2022-08-10 at 07:21 PM.

  3. #183
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Because Blizzard designed them that way, which is why there is a technical issue with Dracthyr and standard armor.

    Again, Blizzard's design decision caused the technical limitation. It is an intentional design.
    There are zero technical issues. The only reason dracthyr doesn't display the other pieces of armor is simply because Blizzard does not want to, and not because they can't, i.e., "technical issues".

    There are zero technical issues in the dracthyr model that would prevent the usage of armor. And you have failed to provide a single one when asked about those issues.

    The Evoker is a class designed to primarily fight in dragon form, a form where the display of armor and weapons is not a requirement. Very similar to Druids.
    Dracthyr are not dragons. That aside, your entire point is rendered moot because they do display armor. Only it's "carefully curated choices" made by Blizzard.

    And yet there are HotS abilities in the Evoker class, something you said would not be the case.
    Stop playing dumb. I'll repeat what I wrote, and this time actually read it, because you had read it you wouldn't have made a claim that is debunked by the very paragraph you quoted:
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    I didn't say that. I said that you can't claim that "hots abilities are in the evoker" back when we didn't know a single ability in the class toolkit. You made a wrong inference that because Alexstrasza's healing spells are green in HotS, and the one nameless healing spell shown in the expansion reveal video was green, you claimed as fact that both abilities were one and the same.


    And yet Dracthyr still cannot wear equipable armor beyond belts and shoulders....
    Irrelevant. I'll repeat: are you not going to address my arguments and evidence, just going to dismiss them?
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  4. #184
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    There are zero technical issues. The only reason dracthyr doesn't display the other pieces of armor is simply because Blizzard does not want to, and not because they can't, i.e., "technical issues".

    There are zero technical issues in the dracthyr model that would prevent the usage of armor. And you have failed to provide a single one when asked about those issues.
    If you build a three-wheeled vehicle, there's going to be a technical issue that will require fixing if you want to add a fourth wheel. The Dracthyr model was not designed to utilize the existing WoW armor sets. Thus, its a technical issue, because it will require work on Blizzard's part to change it.

    Dracthyr are not dragons. That aside, your entire point is rendered moot because they do display armor. Only it's "carefully curated choices" made by Blizzard.
    Can the dragon form wear a full set of equipable/transmog armor? Yes or no?


    Stop playing dumb. I'll repeat what I wrote, and this time actually read it, because you had read it you wouldn't have made a claim that is debunked by the very paragraph you quoted:
    Except you repeated the claim here after we knew what the Evoker's abilities were;

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Yeah, no they don't. Further, we ended up with multiple HotS abilities and mechanics in the class.

    So what are you talking about?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    You mean none? You're wrong about Alexstrasza because her abilities are healing spells and the evoker's use of red dragonflight magic is toward damage-dealing.
    I look forward to your attempts to weasel your way out of that one.


    Irrelevant. I'll repeat: are you not going to address my arguments and evidence, just going to dismiss them?
    What evidence? The Dracthyr can literally only wear shoulders and belts. How are you going to counter reality?

  5. #185
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    If you build a three-wheeled vehicle, there's going to be a technical issue that will require fixing if you want to add a fourth wheel. The Dracthyr model was not designed to utilize the existing WoW armor sets. Thus, its a technical issue, because it will require work on Blizzard's part to change it.
    Your comparison doesn't work. For it to apply to this, the dracthyr would have to had an extra leg and/or, or having an extra knee and/or elbow on their limbs. Or a second head. Or have just one arm and/or one leg. Or have a snake tail instead of legs, like the naga. Those are some actual "technical limitations".

    The dracthyr model, on the other hand, possesses no technical limitations. I'll ask you again: what are the technical limitations on the dracthyr model that makes it impossible for them to display regular armor pieces like chest and pants? And what are the technical limitations that prevent the dracthyr race from being warriors or shamans or hunters or death knights or whatever other existing class?

    Can you answer those questions?

    Can the dragon form wear a full set of equipable/transmog armor? Yes or no?
    Your question is rendered moot because the dracthyr can show off armor, considering they have several different pieces in their barber shop options, including a few that completely wrap around their torsos.

    What evidence? The Dracthyr can literally only wear shoulders and belts. How are you going to counter reality?
    Wow. Once again you prove that you just ignore evidence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    The dracthyr do. Evidence of that is that you can customize its armor. There is nothing on the dracthyr model that indicates it doesn't.
    • Weirdly shaped head? Nah. We got tauren and worgen.
    • Weirdly proportionate body? Nah, we got gnomes and goblins and vulpera.
    • Tail? Nah. We got tauren, draenei and vulpera.
    • Wings? Nah. Because the model already has armor that wraps completely around their torsos.
    • Weapon sheathe on the back? Nah. Because the dracthyr can already wield staves, that stash on your back.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    I say they're trying to give the dracthyr something unique that--in my eyes and I assume also in the eyes of many others-- falls short, to say the least. Because nothing in the dracthyr's body and/or model indicates that they cannot use the armor already existing in the game. Each every exotic characteristic the dracthyr have is either shared with another existing race-- such as horns, tails, snouts, etc-- or are really irrelevant regarding the use of armor-- such as the wings.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    I've shown how the present races all share an "exotic characteristic" the dracthyr has-- such as horns, tails, etc-- that you claim make the usage of armor impossible, and yet those races can still use armor normally. I've shown you to you that your argument about how dracthyr not being able to show off weapons stashed on their backs is not a problem because they can wield staves and other two-handed weapons with no problem. I've shown you how the barber shop armor debunks the claim that dracthyr cannot wear armor "because of wings" because some of the options in it wrap completely around the model's torso and the wings just clip out through the back of it.
    Three times I stated my evidence.

    Three times you completely ignored and avoided addressing them.

    Not a single time you provided any evidence of these "technical limitations" you claim exist.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  6. #186
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Your comparison doesn't work. For it to apply to this, the dracthyr would have to had an extra leg and/or, or having an extra knee and/or elbow on their limbs. Or a second head. Or have just one arm and/or one leg. Or have a snake tail instead of legs, like the naga. Those are some actual "technical limitations".
    Uh, they have wings. Those are literally additional limbs. In addition, they have assets on their arms, legs and head that prevent proper armor texture mapping. This is in place in order to give the model a high level of customization.

    Your question is rendered moot because the dracthyr can show off armor, considering they have several different pieces in their barber shop options, including a few that completely wrap around their torsos.
    Yes, armor specially made for them and them alone. Stop and think for a second why that is.

    Not a single time you provided any evidence of these "technical limitations" you claim exist.
    The Dracthyr (Dragon form) can only wear equipable shoulders and belts. That's called evidence and it is a fact. Disprove it, or move along.

  7. #187
    Bloodsail Admiral Nightshade711's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Uh, they have wings. Those are literally additional limbs. In addition, they have assets on their arms, legs and head that prevent proper armor texture mapping. This is in place in order to give the model a high level of customization.
    Dwarves have large changeable assets on their face… yet they can wear full masks.

    I wonder how that’s possible.

  8. #188
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade711 View Post
    Dwarves have large changeable assets on their face… yet they can wear full masks.

    I wonder how that’s possible.
    So you’re arguing that Dracthyr can wear transmog gear with no issue and Blizzard is simply blocking players from doing so?

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    So you’re arguing that Dracthyr can wear transmog gear with no issue and Blizzard is simply blocking players from doing so?
    I mean, it'd take some man hours to get it to display at an average level of quality, but sure. It is an active choice they made not to work on it.

  10. #190
    Bloodsail Admiral Nightshade711's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    So you’re arguing that Dracthyr can wear transmog gear with no issue and Blizzard is simply blocking players from doing so?
    It’d take work to do for sure. But in terms of the “assets” you talk about on arms and legs… those would just be hidden just like the dwarf beard in a mask.

  11. #191
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bruxx View Post
    I mean, it'd take some man hours to get it to display at an average level of quality, but sure. It is an active choice they made not to work on it.
    And you wouldn’t consider that an issue?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade711 View Post
    It’d take work to do for sure. But in terms of the “assets” you talk about on arms and legs… those would just be hidden just like the dwarf beard in a mask.
    Considering that Dracthyr can’t wear equippable pants, I would say the solution isn’t as simple as you want to believe.

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    And you wouldn’t consider that an issue?

    - - - Updated - - -



    Considering that Dracthyr can’t wear equippable pants, I would say the solution isn’t as simple as you want to believe.
    Not an issue. Changes in philosophy happen constantly and there is nothing stopping them, it's just a matter of them deciding to invest the resources. I agree with you that the dev's don't seem to be at that point quite yet, but by 10.1.5 when they need to start pulling out the "we hear you" card again? Sure, why not?

  13. #193
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bruxx View Post
    Not an issue. Changes in philosophy happen constantly and there is nothing stopping them, it's just a matter of them deciding to invest the resources. I agree with you that the dev's don't seem to be at that point quite yet, but by 10.1.5 when they need to start pulling out the "we hear you" card again? Sure, why not?
    Considering that after 7 years Demon Hunters still remain BE/NE only and still have only two specs, I don’t see that change of philosophy occurring.

  14. #194
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Uh, they have wings. Those are literally additional limbs.
    And that's irrelevant. Some of the barber shop armor choices completely wraps around the dracthyr's torso, meaning there's no "technical limitation" whatsoever in wearing armor. Having the wing clip through the armor graphics is child's play for someone who works in 3D modeling.

    In addition, they have assets on their arms, legs and head that prevent proper armor texture mapping.
    And as I've pointed out numerous times: so do tauren, elves, draenei, worgen, forsaken, etc.

    This proves you haven't read my arguments at all considering you're spouting arguments that were already debunked.

    Yes, armor specially made for them and them alone. Stop and think for a second why that is.
    There is absolutely zero difference between the armor from the barber shop, and, for example, the Unyielding Bloodplate from blacksmithing.


    The Dracthyr (Dragon form) can only wear equipable shoulders and belts. That's called evidence and it is a fact. Disprove it, or move along.
    It's irrelevant evidence because the dracthyr are like that because Blizzard wants it so. It's not evidence at all of "technical limitations" whatsoever.

    Also, it's not a dragon form. Dracthyrs aren't dragons, as per the lore.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Considering that Dracthyr can’t wear equippable pants, I would say the solution isn’t as simple as you want to believe.
    It is as simple as people are telling you it is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  15. #195
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    And that's irrelevant. Some of the barber shop armor choices completely wraps around the dracthyr's torso, meaning there's no "technical limitation" whatsoever in wearing armor. Having the wing clip through the armor graphics is child's play for someone who works in 3D modeling.
    And yet we still can’t wear the armor.


    And as I've pointed out numerous times: so do tauren, elves, draenei, worgen, forsaken, etc.
    None of which have the customization options the dracthyr have.

    This proves you haven't read my arguments at all considering you're spouting arguments that were already debunked.
    Hilarious.


    There is absolutely zero difference between the armor,
    Can you transmog the barbershop gear?


    It's irrelevant evidence because the dracthyr are like that because Blizzard wants it so. It's not evidence at all of "technical limitations" whatsoever.
    Who do you think put the limitation in place?

    Also, it's not a dragon form. Dracthyrs aren't dragons, as per the lore.
    Is that why the people of Orgrimmar and Stormwind call them dragons repeatedly when they show up?

    It is as simple as people are telling you it is.
    And yet they still can’t wear the gear.

    This is going nowhere. Per usual you’re making up your own reality, so feel free to have the last word.

  16. #196
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    And yet we still can’t wear the armor.
    Simply because Blizzard doesn't want it, and not because they can't.

    None of which have the customization options the dracthyr have.
    Irrelevant. Because none of those customization options preclude the usage of armor. The fin behind the back of their heads, their horn jewelry, their jaw barbs, etc. No feature of the dracthyr precludes the usage of armor.

    Hilarious.
    Are you actually going to address my points, or just going to avoid and dodge them like you've done so far?

    Can you transmog the barbershop gear?
    Irrelevant. Because we're not talking about 'application mode'. We're talking about the dracthyr model and your claim that they can't show normal armor because of nebulous "technical limitations" that you never go into detail about.

    By the way? The technology used for the barber shop functionality is the same one used for the transmogrification functionality.

    Who do you think put the limitation in place?
    There is a huge difference between "we can't do it because we don't know how to", i.e. actual technical limitations, and "we won't do it because we don't want to", which is the case here with the dracthyr.

    Is that why the people of Orgrimmar and Stormwind call them dragons repeatedly when they show up?
    Likely because they resemble dragons and people don't know them. Shocker, I know.

    This is going nowhere. Per usual you’re making up your own reality, so feel free to have the last word.
    The irony of this statement is astounding.

    I'll repeat my question that you failed to address: what are these so-called "technical limitations" that you claim exist?
    Last edited by Ielenia; 2022-08-11 at 04:46 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  17. #197
    Bloodsail Admiral Nightshade711's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Considering that after 7 years Demon Hunters still remain BE/NE only and still have only two specs, I don’t see that change of philosophy occurring.
    You keep bringing this up, but the devs never once said DHs would be extended to other races/add another spec to DHs.

    They did, however, say Dracthyr could be other classes after DF.

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Yeah I see it as like a different colored dracthyr shaped elemental form for each race. Like a "projection" of their dragonsoul to allow them to perform those abilities.

    So like a blue one for humans, red for orcs, a voidy one for velves,. A light one for lfd, a maldraxxus anima sickly green one for undead, fire for belves, a water one for kultirans, a mechanical one for mechahnomes, etc etc

    But it wouldn't be like a form they can just switch in and out from as if they were dracthyr.

    It'd only happen for certain spell's same way eye beam work for DHs turning them into meta for the animation.

    It'd be like the evoker's totem, paladin charger, druid forms, meta.
    Sorry im not gonna lie but this sounds absolutely awful and would erode the class to being another DH.

  19. #199
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiriastrasza View Post
    Sorry im not gonna lie but this sounds absolutely awful and would erode the class to being another DH.
    Indeed. It’s quite shocking just how bad an idea it truly is. It’s a huge reason Why i never advocated for the TTRPG version of dragonsworn.

    I can’t believe anyone thinks that such a concept would be well-received.

  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Indeed. It’s quite shocking just how bad an idea it truly is. It’s a huge reason Why i never advocated for the TTRPG version of dragonsworn.

    I can’t believe anyone thinks that such a concept would be well-received.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiriastrasza View Post
    Sorry im not gonna lie but this sounds absolutely awful and would erode the class to being another DH.
    Exactly how would it make it another DH???

    DH is only.in meta for, well, meta and for eye beam and death from above....

    Evokers would prob be all dragon like for most of their abilities....

    You guys ain't really constructively criticizing, just basically saying "no" because it ruins you're narrow-minded view of what an evoker can be.
    Last edited by Varx; 2022-08-11 at 12:51 PM.

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