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  1. #81
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade711 View Post
    Don’t forget that Evokers can also use 2H Swords, 2H Maces, and 2H Axes
    They can? Cool. It further destroys his arguments.

    I didn't mention those because the official website doesn't make mention of 2H swords, maces or axes, but it does mention staves, which are exclusively two-handed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  2. #82
    Bloodsail Admiral Nightshade711's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    They can? Cool. It further destroys his arguments.

    I didn't mention those because the official website doesn't make mention of 2H swords, maces or axes, but it does mention staves, which are exclusively two-handed.
    Yeah it’s a bit weird wording. I didn’t even know until Alpha launched.

    The 2H mace from the new raid would be perfect for a Dracthyr warrior.

  3. #83
    The issue I see in the future is the evoker class is so racially tied to dracthyr, I can't imagine how Blizzard could ever share it with other races. The class tree has talents for wing buffet and tail swipe which are dracthyr racials. I can think of a few ways to make evoker abilities that require dracthyr animations to work for other races, but there'd need to be entirely new talents to replace the ones that buff dracthyr racials.

    On a side note, the idea of racial talent trees is intriguing

  4. #84
    If they are ever going to be other classes then they should only have classes based on the Dragonflights. Mage, Druid, Priest, and Shaman with Evoker as a nice Hero Class to cap it off.

  5. #85
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriani View Post
    The issue I see in the future is the evoker class is so racially tied to dracthyr, I can't imagine how Blizzard could ever share it with other races. The class tree has talents for wing buffet and tail swipe which are dracthyr racials. I can think of a few ways to make evoker abilities that require dracthyr animations to work for other races, but there'd need to be entirely new talents to replace the ones that buff dracthyr racials.
    Eh, it's not really that hard to think about a workaround. If Blizzard plans to one day allow other races to pick evoker, they could give the races extra customization options like a tail and wings, much like DHs give NEs and BEs extra customization options in the form of horns, tatoos and blindfolds, and say the power of the dragonflights partially mutates the other mortal races.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Therchias View Post
    If they are ever going to be other classes then they should only have classes based on the Dragonflights. Mage, Druid, Priest, and Shaman with Evoker as a nice Hero Class to cap it off.


    And paladin, cuz you know.... Tyr.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Eh, it's not really that hard to think about a workaround. If Blizzard plans to one day allow other races to pick evoker, they could give the races extra customization options like a tail and wings, much like DHs give NEs and BEs extra customization options in the form of horns, tatoos and blindfolds, and say the power of the dragonflights partially mutates the other mortal races.
    Eh I prefer the meta eye beam route.

    Casting abilities that require dracthyr anatomy turns your character into a ethereal dracthyr for the animation of the spell.

    Give different races different colors.

    LFD turn into a light one, velves to a voidy one, orcs I to a black and red one, NB Into an arcane one, etc etc

  7. #87
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriani View Post
    The issue I see in the future is the evoker class is so racially tied to dracthyr, I can't imagine how Blizzard could ever share it with other races. The class tree has talents for wing buffet and tail swipe which are dracthyr racials. I can think of a few ways to make evoker abilities that require dracthyr animations to work for other races, but there'd need to be entirely new talents to replace the ones that buff dracthyr racials.

    On a side note, the idea of racial talent trees is intriguing
    Well that’s the entire point. The Dracthyr race was created to accommodate the Evoker class. There’s zero reason to expand the Dracthyr to other classes, and there’s zero reason to expand the Evoker to other races. As you pointed out, doing so would require pointless reworks that works better served making the Dracthyr Evoker concept better.

    Unfortunately, we’re going to be treated to multiple posters crying for those things for years to come. Hopefully they stay out of the Evoker forum.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    This is the new DH should be more races, or DHs should get a third spec. We’re what? 7 years since the announcement of Legion and DHs, and they’re still confined to 2 races and 2 specs.
    Exactly. If you want to look to precedence, you'll have 12 years to wait like Death Knights did since, until Blizzard creates an updated DH starting area for non Night/High Elves, those are the only two races you see training on the south terraces of the Black Temple in Burning Crusade, where their start begins.

  9. #89
    I read like 60 posts with someone saying Dracthyr can't be warriors or rogues because they don't display armour.

    It's not about class. I like seeing armour on every class. I mind druid gear being neigh irrelevant on looks and we had a few changes to help with that, on healer and moonkin.

    So first, if Blizz is releasing Evoker without armour, it obviously means they have no qualms doing it. Class REALLY does not make a difference here. Some people whined about it, some people don't mind it. And second, if they ever give other classes they will NOT be putting armor on them. Imagine the outrage if an evoker couldn't show armour but a warrior could.

  10. #90
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Well that’s the entire point. The Dracthyr race was created to accommodate the Evoker class.
    So what? That doesn't mean dracthyr eventually cannot be warriors, mages, druids, etc. So what if the evoker tree has talents that improve on a few of the dracthyr's racials? That's meaningless. That means the dracthyrs of other classes would not have as strong racials as the evoker, but guess what? That's fine. Because the other classes are a complete set on their own. They don't need a specific race's racials to feel complete. The dracthyr racials would be just like the racials of the other races: a complementary bonus to the class' toolkit, and not an integral part of the class like it is for the evoker.

    There’s zero reason to expand the Dracthyr to other classes,
    You of all people should think twice before saying things like "there's no reason to do X".

    As for reasons, I can give you a big one: expand the population and/or popularity of the race. Allowing dracthyrs to pick other classes means those people that would be interested in playing the race but have no interest whatsoever in playing an evoker would have the chance of playing dracthyr, and so the race's population would increase.

    and there’s zero reason to expand the Evoker to other races.
    Same as above: there are people here who would be interested in playing an evoker but they do not like the dracthyr race. Allowing other races to be evokers means more people would be playing evokers. That's a fact.

    Unfortunately, we’re going to be treated to multiple posters crying for those things for years to come. Hopefully they stay out of the Evoker forum.
    ... The irony of this statement is baffling.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  11. #91
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    So what? That doesn't mean dracthyr eventually cannot be warriors, mages, druids, etc.
    Uh, that’s exactly what it means.

  12. #92
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Uh, that’s exactly what it means.
    In your opinion, it is.

    Facts, on the other hand, say otherwise. I literally explained that fact:
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    So what? That doesn't mean dracthyr eventually cannot be warriors, mages, druids, etc. So what if the evoker tree has talents that improve on a few of the dracthyr's racials? That's meaningless. That means the dracthyrs of other classes would not have as strong racials as the evoker, but guess what? That's fine. Because the other classes are a complete set on their own. They don't need a specific race's racials to feel complete. The dracthyr racials would be just like the racials of the other races: a complementary bonus to the class' toolkit, and not an integral part of the class like it is for the evoker.
    The bold is the part you intentionally ignored and failed to address.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade711 View Post
    Goblins and Worgen have the same animation because of the whole 'shared rig/animations' thing that all of the other races have.
    The 'shared animation' stuff wasn't added until sometime in Legion, and Worgen and Goblins had Monk animations long before that. All the way back to Cata.

    As for other Dracthyr classes, I definitely see them adding more eventually. They expected the negative reaction to them only having one class. What you might not see is the Evoker for other races. That could change of course, look at how heavily Pandaren are wrapped up in Monks. Every single icon that's not a spell is a Pandaren paw or something.
    I would like to see Dracthyr Warlocks and some Fel-based customization options come with it(every race should have some class-specific options for things like Warlocks).

  14. #94
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eosia View Post
    Exactly. If you want to look to precedence, you'll have 12 years to wait like Death Knights did since, until Blizzard creates an updated DH starting area for non Night/High Elves, those are the only two races you see training on the south terraces of the Black Temple in Burning Crusade, where their start begins.
    Unfortunately for the rest of time, Dracthyr Evoker players will have to endure constant pleads for this nonsense just like DH players in our forums.

    Par the course I suppose.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    In your opinion, it is.

    Facts, on the other hand, say otherwise. I literally explained that fact:

    The bold is the part you intentionally ignored and failed to address.
    Uh, the bold part is literally an opinion, which is why it was ignored.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Well that’s the entire point. The Dracthyr race was created to accommodate the Evoker class. There’s zero reason to expand the Dracthyr to other classes, and there’s zero reason to expand the Evoker to other races. As you pointed out, doing so would require pointless reworks that works better served making the Dracthyr Evoker concept better.

    Unfortunately, we’re going to be treated to multiple posters crying for those things for years to come. Hopefully they stay out of the Evoker forum.
    I disagree that there's zero reason to expand dracthyr to other classes or evoker to other races. First and foremost, Blizzard is the one that said they don't want race to be a limited to class in the future. I know that doesn't necessarily mean Blizz will follow through with that, or even if they do, just how quickly we'll see everything spread around, but it was a stated goal.

    For dracthyr, it'll make perfect sense for them to have access to any/all the other classes in the expansion after dragonflight. After that they will have been exposed to the outside world and could reasonably take up classes other than evoker after spending time with and learning about the modern mortal races.

    For evoker, it works the other way. The modern mortal races will have been exposed to the dragon isles and the dracthyr. Assuming the physical limitations of their race can be overcome (like say using the demon hunter eyebeam/metaform way like Varx mentioned to handle animations that need draconic form). My concern was primarily over the talents that tie in dracthyr racials that the mortal races won't have. But I suppose something else could be added in their place where needed.

    Even if evoker never gets spread to other races, I do hope that dracthyr will get access to other classes post dragonflight.

  16. #96
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Uh, the bold part is literally an opinion,
    • Dracthyr can be made to pick new classes without changes to their model/animations. Fact.
    • Dracthyrs of other classes would not have as strong racials as the evoker. Fact.
    • Other classes are a complete set on their own. Fact.
    • Other classes don't need a specific race's racials to feel complete. Fact.
    • The dracthyr racials would be just like the racials of the other races: a complementary bonus to the class' toolkit, and not an integral part of the class like it is for the evoker. Fact.

    Facts are not opinions, Teriz.

    which is why it was ignored.
    Does that mean we can ignore everything you've said, since all you have are opinions? Opinions that have been proven false (like your "weapons sheathed on the back" thing), but still opinions.
    Last edited by Ielenia; 2022-08-09 at 01:34 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  17. #97
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriani View Post
    I disagree that there's zero reason to expand dracthyr to other classes or evoker to other races. First and foremost, Blizzard is the one that said they don't want race to be a limited to class in the future. I know that doesn't necessarily mean Blizz will follow through with that, or even if they do, just how quickly we'll see everything spread around, but it was a stated goal.
    They said the following;

    said Blizzard wanted to “move towards a world where the race of a character is not a limiter for what they can become in the World of Warcraft,” and that other combos will hopefully come in the future, so there is still hope for these fans in the future.
    https://gamerant.com/world-of-warcra...-restrictions/

    I think this is another case where people latch onto a quote and interpret it the way they want. Blizzard made Priests, Mages, and Rogues available to all races. That isn't really a precedent to believe that all classes will be available to all races. Especially classes like Druids, Demon Hunters and now Evokers which have very specific attributes that can't be easily spread to several races. It seems rather silly to believe that Blizzard wants to make all classes open to all races when they haven't budged on DH race limitations, and they're about to release the most restricted race/class combo in the history of the game.

    As to the Dracthyr being other classes, I simply don't see it happening. Again, if Blizzard wanted a dragon-based race that could be any class, they wouldn't have designed a dragon-based race with huge wings, a tail to clip 2H weapons, shields, and cloaks, and multiple attributes that make mapping standard armor impossible.

    For dracthyr, it'll make perfect sense for them to have access to any/all the other classes in the expansion after dragonflight. After that they will have been exposed to the outside world and could reasonably take up classes other than evoker after spending time with and learning about the modern mortal races.
    Accept it doesn't, because there are Shaman-style NPCs in their starter zone, and there's no reason why they couldn't figure out how to be warriors on their own when they have melee weapons such as swords. Further they have access to Arcane, Frost, and Fire magic via the dragonflights. Why would they require contact with outside forces to learn what they already know?

    For evoker, it works the other way. The modern mortal races will have been exposed to the dragon isles and the dracthyr. Assuming the physical limitations of their race can be overcome (like say using the demon hunter eyebeam/metaform way like Varx mentioned to handle animations that need draconic form). My concern was primarily over the talents that tie in dracthyr racials that the mortal races won't have. But I suppose something else could be added in their place where needed.

    Even if evoker never gets spread to other races, I do hope that dracthyr will get access to other classes post dragonflight.
    The only way that works is if the other races can somehow turn into dragons, which would be utterly silly, and completely jump the shark in terms of concept and seriousness. I certainly don't hope that ANY of that takes place. Best to leave things the way they are.

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Why does this keep getting brought up over and over again?

    This is the new DH should be more races, or DHs should get a third spec. We’re what? 7 years since the announcement of Legion and DHs, and they’re still confined to 2 races and 2 specs.

    If you’re a Dracthyr, you’re stuck playing an Evoker.
    I don't think is the same, in the end, adding more races to the DH requires more work, than adding more classes to the Darkthyr, as the DH class require some completely new animations that some races don't have, and extra customization added, while the Drakthyr have all the animations that they need for most classes (maybe excluding monk)

  19. #99
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxilian View Post
    I don't think is the same, in the end, adding more races to the DH requires more work, than adding more classes to the Darkthyr, as the DH class require some completely new animations that some races don't have, and extra customization added, while the Drakthyr have all the animations that they need for most classes (maybe excluding monk)
    I feel that the underlying point is that Blizzard has no desire to do either.

    As it should be.

  20. #100
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    I feel that the underlying point is that Blizzard has no desire to do either.
    Except they do, because they have done so in the past, and have expressed a willingness to consider it.

    As it should be, of course.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

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