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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Yes, a comment completely contradicted by their own lore and starter zone.



    That's not what he said. He said they want to move to a place where race isn't a limiter to what you can become. That doesn't mean all races and all classes. Some classes have far too many art assets to be open to all races. Druids being the first that comes to mind.



    Again, these are all lore issues, not technical issues. You can't map standard WoW armor to Dracthyr bodies. Dracthyr have huge wings and tails that cause issues with certain weapons and back gear. Those were INTENTIONAL design choices. If Blizzard wanted Dracthyr to be all classes at some point, they wouldn't have designed the model that they did. They would have simply used Drakonoid models that are pretty much Draenei and Tauren in reptile suits. However they didn't do that because they have no intention of ever branching the Dracthyr out from Evokers.

    Again, the developers are blowing smoke up your collective bums, and you're believing it.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Uh read the thread more carefully, several posters are saying exactly that.



    Such as?
    Stop it with the armor bullshit man...

    Dracthyr can remain naked and have sheathed weapons disappear. That's not an issue. It's all dragon magic. Ffs

    Just like how evokers still benefit from their gear in dragon form, so to can other classes.

    Literally a dracthyr mage would be the exact same thing as an evoker with a staff....

    The racials talents can easily, EASILY be replaced all they do is reduce the cd anyway.

    You're the ONLY PERSON making this into an issue.

    Just answer the damn question, what do you have against more dracthyr classes, God damn....
    Last edited by Varx; 2022-08-09 at 06:01 PM.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Again, why wouldn't they simply do that now? Think about it; We already have Dracthyr in armor and carrying weapons. We already have Dracthyr being exposed to elemental powers. We already have Dracthyr with knowledge of Arcane, Fire, and Frost. Why do they need contact with the other Azerothian races to learn something they already should know? Didn't Deathwing create them to be super-soldiers in the first place?

    Further, the Dragon Isles aren't exactly a safe place, so if they're going to be warriors, rogues, shaman, whatever, shouldn't they already be these classes?

    Ion is blowing smoke up your bum and you're buying it.
    I like how you use claims like "Ion is blowing smoke up your bum and you're buying it." but then turn around and use blizzard discussion points and quotes in previous posts to support your claims. So is what they say trustworthy or not Teriz? All you do, just like your tinker theorycrafting, is jump from point to point and refuse to discuss its validity. In your eyes all your points depend on each other and you will go in circles for hours getting every point shredded but then redirecting to another claiming that it disproves your opponent.

    Model animations do take time for special spells IE thunderclap but nothing is preventing blizzard from adding that. And claiming its not worth the effort requires some evidence from you because they gave updated spell animations and models in the past. Why were those worth it but not this?

    Limited xmog options just comes with dracthyr just like trolls don't get to cover their feet but on an expanded scale. This won't prevent very many people who want to play a dragon race from picking it.

    If armors were cornerstones to other class fantasy blizzard wouldn't let us hide armor slots via xmog.

  3. #123
    Bloodsail Admiral Nightshade711's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Again, why wouldn't they simply do that now? Think about it; We already have Dracthyr in armor and carrying weapons. We already have Dracthyr being exposed to elemental powers. We already have Dracthyr with knowledge of Arcane, Fire, and Frost. Why do they need contact with the other Azerothian races to learn something they already should know? Didn't Deathwing create them to be super-soldiers in the first place?

    Further, the Dragon Isles aren't exactly a safe place, so if they're going to be warriors, rogues, shaman, whatever, shouldn't they already be these classes?

    Ion is blowing smoke up your bum and you're buying it.

    As I had previously said
    Except the Dracthyr were trained specifically to use the dragon magic under command of their creator which the edicts on the starting zone mention.
    Lore wise it makes no sense for Dracthyr to be the other classes in their starting zone especially since it is tied to the class.

    Now when they integrate with the other factions and Evokers & the Dragon Isles are squished down to fit into Chromie time the Dracthyr can start on Exile’s reach.
    Thus lore of their starting zone doesn’t matter because as Ion said “they could learn to pick up an axe and become a great warrior” after DF.

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post

    - - - Updated - - -

    Uh read the thread more carefully, several posters are saying exactly that.



    Such as?
    Well then we agree those posters are silly goosies but thats about as far as our agreements go. Any reason why my take on the racial talent point is wrong? No? You concede that its fine other classes wouldn't have the node then? good talk

    Well you pretty much promised and guaranteed that tinker was the next class and pointed to many many posts of "evidence" to it. Clearly what you view as proof should be looked at more closely. But as I said I wasn't saving your F tier takes back then, just rolling my eyes. But I'm seriously reconsidering that stance on this new drivel you post as fact.

  5. #125
    Bloodsail Admiral Nightshade711's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Stop it with the armor bullshit man...

    Dracthyr can remain naked and have sheathed weapons disappear. That's not an issue. It's all dragon magic. Ffs

    Just like how evokers still benefit from their gear in dragon form, so to can other classes.

    Literally a dracthyr mage would be the exact same thing as an evoker with a staff....

    The racials talents can easily, EASILY be replaced all they do is reduce the cd anyway.

    You're the ONLY PERSON making this into an issue.

    Just answer the damn question, what do you have against more dracthyr classes, God damn....
    If armor were an actual big deal like he’s making it out to be, they can just put in the work to make armor visible on Dracthyr minus cloaks.

    It’s already been shown that Dracthyr can wear lots of armor including plate lore wise so…

    I think he has an issue with other Dracthyr being other classes because it furthermore ruins his headcanon that Dracthyr are dragons. Because Dragon Rogues and Dragon Warriors don’t exist.

  6. #126
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elbob View Post
    I like how you use claims like "Ion is blowing smoke up your bum and you're buying it." but then turn around and use blizzard discussion points and quotes in previous posts to support your claims. So is what they say trustworthy or not Teriz?
    That completely depends on their topic of discussion. Anytime they say “we’re looking into it” or “Maybe in the future”, take it with a grain of salt.

    All you do, just like your tinker theorycrafting, is jump from point to point and refuse to discuss its validity. In your eyes all your points depend on each other and you will go in circles for hours getting every point shredded but then redirecting to another claiming that it disproves your opponent.
    Oh? Feel free to post an example in this thread.

    Model animations do take time for special spells IE thunderclap but nothing is preventing blizzard from adding that. And claiming its not worth the effort requires some evidence from you because they gave updated spell animations and models in the past. Why were those worth it but not this?
    Already explained multiple times in this thread.

    Limited xmog options just comes with dracthyr just like trolls don't get to cover their feet but on an expanded scale. This won't prevent very many people who want to play a dragon race from picking it.
    Feet compared to pretty much the entirety of the Dracthyr’s body….

    Great comparison…

    If armors were cornerstones to other class fantasy blizzard wouldn't let us hide armor slots via xmog.
    You’re comparing an option to a limitation. Players have an OPTION for their character having max or limited armor. In this case, you’re being FORCED to have limited armor. It’s not remotely close to the same thing.

    Now I’m sure you’re going to say that’s up to the player for rolling a dracthyr, but that’s not what’s going to happen. What’s going to happen are players demanding that Dracthyr get all transmog options, something that would require a huge amount of effort that I doubt Blizzard would ever do.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade711 View Post
    If armor were an actual big deal like he’s making it out to be, they can just put in the work to make armor visible on Dracthyr minus cloaks.

    It’s already been shown that Dracthyr can wear lots of armor including plate lore wise so…

    I think he has an issue with other Dracthyr being other classes because it furthermore ruins his headcanon that Dracthyr are dragons. Because Dragon Rogues and Dragon Warriors don’t exist.
    Which would require Blizzard to rework every piece of armor they’ve ever made to accommodate one race. A race purposely designed to not wear general WoW armor btw.

    You’re living a pipe dream if you think they’d do that.

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    That completely depends on their topic of discussion. Anytime they say “we’re looking into it” or “Maybe in the future”, take it with a grain of salt.



    Oh? Feel free to post an example in this thread.



    Already explained multiple times in this thread.



    Feet compared to pretty much the entirety of the Dracthyr’s body….

    Great comparison…



    You’re comparing an option to a limitation. Players have an OPTION for their character having max or limited armor. In this case, you’re being FORCED to have limited armor. It’s not remotely close to the same thing.

    Now I’m sure you’re going to say that’s up to the player for rolling a dracthyr, but that’s not what’s going to happen. What’s going to happen are players demanding that Dracthyr get all transmog options, something that would require a huge amount of effort that I doubt Blizzard would ever do.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Which would require Blizzard to rework every piece of armor they’ve ever made to accommodate one race. A race purposely designed to not wear general WoW armor btw.

    You’re living a pipe dream if you think they’d do that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade711 View Post
    If armor were an actual big deal like he’s making it out to be, they can just put in the work to make armor visible on Dracthyr minus cloaks.

    It’s already been shown that Dracthyr can wear lots of armor including plate lore wise so…

    I think he has an issue with other Dracthyr being other classes because it furthermore ruins his headcanon that Dracthyr are dragons. Because Dragon Rogues and Dragon Warriors don’t exist.
    Okay, then here's a better question that hopefully he won't ignore...


    Let's say some how blizzard figured out hot to make gear work on dracthyr, Teriz.

    Would that make it better for you?


    Idk I think your right, nightshade. I think he has a very VERY OCD and narrow-minded vision as to what the dracthyr are.

    I mean are the non evoker dracthyr and less dracthyr?

    Like, I just don't understand what his deal is with this.

    NOT ALL DRACTHYR ARE EVOKERS.

    Anyone with basic understanding on story progression and wow knowledge would then disuse that EVENTUALLY those dracthyr are going to pursue those other classes when interacting with their new alliances.

    Christ man...

    You don't need armor to function as a warrior, let alone any freaking caster

  8. #128
    Bloodsail Admiral Nightshade711's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Which would require Blizzard to rework every piece of armor they’ve ever made to accommodate one race. A race purposely designed to not wear general WoW armor btw.

    You’re living a pipe dream if you think they’d do that.
    You obviously don’t know how the design process works for new races getting armor or for armor in general.

    If blizzard had to manually rework every piece of armor for every new race then we wouldn’t have gotten Worgen, Goblins or Pandaren… we especially wouldn’t have gotten Kul Tirans.

  9. #129
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade711 View Post
    You obviously don’t know how the design process works for new races getting armor or for armor in general.

    If blizzard had to manually rework every piece of armor for every new race then we wouldn’t have gotten Worgen, Goblins or Pandaren… we especially wouldn’t have gotten Kul Tirans.
    Hilarious.

    The Dracthyr aren’t like the other races in the game. The sheer number of customization options they have should tell you that.

  10. #130
    Bloodsail Admiral Nightshade711's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Hilarious.

    The Dracthyr aren’t like the other races in the game. The sheer number of customization options they have should tell you that.
    Their customization doesn’t change the design process behind armor though?

    Sure they might have to put in a little extra work on the armor templates for body size but it’s not like their body shapes/heights are that drastically different. Same height and same locations for the 3D assets to go.
    Last edited by Nightshade711; 2022-08-09 at 06:57 PM.

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Hilarious.

    The Dracthyr aren’t like the other races in the game. The sheer number of customization options they have should tell you that.
    So if worgen had one too many beard options then no gear for them?

    What's preventing dracs from getting armor is their wings and what I assume are their rig's skins don't mesh well with some old school skin tight armor.

    Because shoulders work just fine and 3d belts.

    Also you keep dodging my questions.

    Would you feel better if they hired a super graphic designer wiz kid to make armor on them work? Or that's just not dragon enough for you?

  12. #132
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade711 View Post
    Their customization doesn’t change the design process behind armor though?

    Sure they might have to put in a little extra work on the armor templates for body size but it’s not like their body shapes/heights are that drastically different. Same height and same locations for the 3D assets to go.
    Several WoW armors are 2D, especially older armor. The Dracthyr model has multiple 3D parts that the 2D armor simply can’t wrap around. Thus, Blizzard would have to redraw that old armor for it to work with the model. You’re talking about hundreds, if not thousands of pieces. Further, some pieces don’t work at all, like chest, helmets, cloaks, boots, pants, etc. And you would have to take every single piece and redraw it.

    Again, you’re living in a pipe dream if you believe they’re going to that. ESPECIALLY given the fact that Blizzard designed them to not properly wear standard WoW armor in the first place.

  13. #133
    Bloodsail Admiral Nightshade711's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    What's preventing dracs from getting armor is their wings and what I assume are their rig's skins don't mesh well with some old school skin tight armor.
    Tbh the wings aren’t even that much of an issue. They could just design the little 2D textures like the wings aren’t there.
    Which they already did with the barbershop armor.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Several WoW armors are 2D, especially older armor. The Dracthyr model has multiple 3D parts that the 2D armor simply can’t wrap around. Thus, Blizzard would have to redraw that old armor for it to work with the model. You’re talking about hundreds, if not thousands of pieces. Further, some pieces don’t work at all, like chest, helmets, cloaks, boots, pants, etc. And you would have to take every single piece and redraw it.

    Again, you’re living in a pipe dream if you believe they’re going to that. ESPECIALLY given the fact that Blizzard designed them to not properly wear standard WoW armor in the first place.
    Yeah you clearly don’t know how designing armor in WoW works if you genuinely think they’d have to manually go in and rework every piece of armor at all.
    Last edited by Nightshade711; 2022-08-09 at 07:08 PM.

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Several WoW armors are 2D, especially older armor. The Dracthyr model has multiple 3D parts that the 2D armor simply can’t wrap around. Thus, Blizzard would have to redraw that old armor for it to work with the model. You’re talking about hundreds, if not thousands of pieces. Further, some pieces don’t work at all, like chest, helmets, cloaks, boots, pants, etc. And you would have to take every single piece and redraw it.

    Again, you’re living in a pipe dream if you believe they’re going to that. ESPECIALLY given the fact that Blizzard designed them to not properly wear standard WoW armor in the first place.
    Which is why we don't need armor on dracthyr classes....

    And it works because dragons don't wear armor.

    If an orc warrior in a loin cloth can function just fine then I'm sure a magical lizard will be just fine as long as they got a nice big sword.


    There is no TeCHniCaL IsSuE there.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    That's not what he said. He said they want to move to a place where race isn't a limiter to what you can become. That doesn't mean all races and all classes. Some classes have far too many art assets to be open to all races. Druids being the first that comes to mind.
    Actually, that's exactly what it means.

  16. #136
    Bloodsail Admiral Nightshade711's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    That's not what he said. He said they want to move to a place where race isn't a limiter to what you can become. That doesn't mean all races and all classes. Some classes have far too many art assets to be open to all races. Druids being the first that comes to mind.
    Funny enough they already brought this up. They’re wanting to do it but it takes time.
    Not like they can just flip a switch for druids like they can rogues, mages, or priests without making people angry that there’s no unique forms for their Dwarf Druid.

  17. #137
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade711 View Post
    Yeah you clearly don’t know how designing armor in WoW works if you genuinely think they’d have to manually go in and rework every piece of armor at all.
    Where did I say anything about “manually”? The point is that it’s going to require WORK to do it.

  18. #138
    Bloodsail Admiral Nightshade711's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Where did I say anything about “manually”? The point is that it’s going to require WORK to do it.
    Do they have some AI technology to automate “taking every single piece and redrawing it”?

    Further, some pieces don’t work at all, like chest, helmets, cloaks, boots, pants, etc. And you would have to take every single piece and redraw it.
    Sounds to me like they’d have to do it manually if they want to redraw every single piece of armor.

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Oh? Feel free to post an example in this thread.
    You asked for this.... post numbers are attached claims are made by you with the OP responding. This isn't limited to the posts I'm linking but this is already going to be very long.

    Claim(#13): Okay, let's roll with this idea; What's the point of the draconic form if you have Warrior or Rogue abilities? Further, if the weapons simply disappear, don't you think most people would PREFER to stay in Visage form so that they can actually see their gear? You see, with the Evoker class, the Dragon form makes sense, because you need to be a dragon to do dragon abilities. However, you DON'T need a dragon form to do Rogue or Warrior abilities, so again, what's the point of a gimped dragon form?

    response(#14): The point is that you're a humanoid dragon that's a warrior, that's the race. That's it. Again not every dracthyr is an evoker. The weapons would only disappear if sheathed on a character's back. They'd appear when used in combat. Plus right now only a few evoker abilities make you shift from visage to dragon. I'd imagine for other classes the only thing that would force a shift would be the active dracthyr racials.
    You claim the problem is your weapons disappear,therefore a problem because people want to see gear and would stay in visage form instead, and the dragon form would be a "gimp form". OP then responds pointing out its just racial fantasy and weapons only disappearing while sheathed is not a problem. This has clear ties to worgen though, isn't worgen form just a gimp form since you don't need it for combat animations? the human form covers all those and worgen is only needed for the racial seems pretty simple to me, no problem at all.

    Claim(#15): 1. Except that draconic form presents a host of problems for both gear and armor. You said yourself that a Dracthyr warrior for example can't show their weapons or shield on their backs due to their wings and tail. That makes the Dracthyr warrior a bit worse off than other races. Further, standard armor doesn't work with the Dracthyr model, which is why they have race-specific armor. Why would you roll a Dracthyr warrior when they can't show armor or weapons properly? That's a cornerstone of being a warrior, and Dracthyr can't properly do it.

    2. The visage form doesn't have these problems at all, so the ACTUAL Dracthyr form is actually worse than the supplemental form.

    Response(#17): If you roll a dracthyr then you know you're not gonna see you're armor in dragon form. So it doesn't matter. Just stay in visage form of it matters so much and don't use the active racials to morph you, simple. Regardless you know what your signing up for being a drac.
    You have now merged the weapons argument into armor and weapons conflating the 2 as 1 despite starting just about weapons being a problem. While clearly they share commonalities sheathed weapons are obviously slightly different than armor xmog, as we see with back mogs hiding weapons already. You then shift to claim the dracthyr form is "worse" now but this is a nonsense argument being all kinds of player models have tons of clipping issues and back xmogs are not viewed as "worse" by the community for hiding sheathed weapons.

    OP kindly points out that dracthyr form comes with armor restrictions which people know ahead of time, if they want most classes can stick to visage form with the exception of dracthyr racials.

    Claim(#18): That's not a valid solution. The problem is that people WON'T roll a Dracthyr because of these limitations, rendering all of Blizzard's work to make this race available to other classes pointless.

    Also if the goal is to simply remain in Visage form, what's the point of this in the first place? We already have elven races and humans.

    Yes, because the entire point of the Evoker is to be a dragon, and the actual Dracthyr form is the draconic form. With dragons, armor is an optional thing, which is why Dracthyr Evokers have the option to fight without wearing any armor at all in draconic form. This isn't the case with the other classes like Rogues or Warriors which are highly based on weapon attacks and abilities.

    Response(#19): Are you kidding. Not having armor in dracthyr form isn't gonna keep people from race changing I promise you.

    The fact that you have the option to fight as a dragon or humanoid is awesome. It's a great fantasy. You change as you want to.

    Dude come on... One class for one race and vice versa.... I'll be surprised that lasts past 11.3.

    But anyway. Rouges and warriors aren't throwing their shoulder pads at people. Hell you can be naked and still roll heads. What matters is the weapons. Which they can still use obviously.

    A dracthyr warrior is a dragon that swings a sword because they weren't Chad enough to be an evoker.
    You now claim thats not ok because people won't roll a dracthyr due to these limitations but provide 0 evidence of such a claim. Then instantly try to focus on claiming the OP is just trying to stay in visage form when he has said no such thing just that if you want that its an option. You shift AGAIN to the point of being an evoker is to be a dragon which is irrelevant since we are talking about dracthyr being other classes, and choose to focus on wearing armor is optional for dracthyr cause dragons shift AGAIN to a lore defense from the mechanical/aesthetic. STICK TO A LANE MAN. Even worse you instantly correlate dragons lack of need for armor to warriors and rogues needing weapons? Which would work in dracthyr form for melee classes.

    OP points out aesthetic options are w/e because its just player preference and they know what they are making and its about player fantasy. Then, god bless his soul, actually responds to your hard right turn towards lore and armor and points out how stupid it is. And restates weapons can be held in dracthyr form already so no problem. NEXT.

    Claim(#22): I won't be, considering that that was the entire point of creating said race and class in the first place.

    Not the point. The point is that Rogue and Warrior players want to see their weaponry and armor at all times. The Dracthyr model doesn't allow that, and Blizzard will never spend the time and resources to make the vast amount of armor and weapons work with the Dracthyr model. Again, the vast majority of Warrior and Rogue (and other classes) players will avoid the Dracthyr option like the plague due to that limitation.

    Response(#23): The only reason it makes no sense now is because dracthyr haven't gotten the chance to be other classes. But that won't be the case now that they've rejoined the world. Seems like the time frame from an expansion is long enough to have them start appearing given that they're joining H and A ranks.

    You don't think evoker players wanna see their armor in dragon form? I've seen lots of players asking for armor even for evokers.

    But blizzard doesn't need to do that. Leave it as is for evokers and other classes. That's part of the fantasy for all dragons right? Whether a an evoker or not they don't have typical armor.

    And if that bothers you as a player then obviously don't roll a dracthyr then... It wouldn't bother me. Especially if I have the option to freely Morpho from visage to dragon form at will. The dragon form has plenty of customization options anyway.

    Dracthyr are not like vanilla dragons, I dunno why you compare the two like they're one and the same. Dragons don't have opsable thumbs last I checked. Dracthyr do
    And instant shift to warriors and rogues WANT to see weapons and armor at all times. Which you have 0 evidence for from the player base and blizzard clearly doesnt support since you can hide armor slots. You then start claiming blizzard won't make all the armors for dracthyr which the OP never claimed. Suggesting that blizzard HAS to create these armor models on dracthyr because the warrior/rogue players want to see their armor. So you made a claim based off a fact you... #justmadeup. To continue the disingenuous trend you then (and other classes)* in everyone dragging your BS made up claim even further and then saying players will avoid dracthyr due to this, to backwards justify resources?

    OP points out evoker players would want to see their armor just as bad as any other class so this makes no sense (he's right), and isnt even asking for such a silly thing as making all armor work on dracthyr. The dragon custom options are plenty for any that wants to play dracthyr.

    Claim(#25): You seem to be missing the point here; Standard WoW armor and weaponry does not work on the Dracthyr forms, and classes like Warriors, Rogues, Shaman, DKs, etc. demand the player model to show armor and weaponry at all times.

    Yes they do! If you're making a race compatible with Warriors or Rogues, that race HAS to be able to show weapons and armor.
    And here we are again repeating past claims instead of actually proving why your statements are correct or his are incorrect. You just say nuh uh melee classes demand the player to show armor and weaponry at all times. A BS claim and is nearly identical to where you started claiming the viability of weapons and armor is the problem.

  20. #140
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade711 View Post
    Do they have some AI technology to automate “taking every single piece and redrawing it”?


    Sounds to me like they’d have to do it manually if they want to redraw every single piece of armor.
    Semantics? The point is that they would have to redo hundreds, if not thousands of items to get them to work with the Dracthyr.

    That's not going to happen.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Elbob View Post
    You claim the problem is your weapons disappear,therefore a problem because people want to see gear and would stay in visage form instead, and the dragon form would be a "gimp form". OP then responds pointing out its just racial fantasy and weapons only disappearing while sheathed is not a problem. This has clear ties to worgen though, isn't worgen form just a gimp form since you don't need it for combat animations? the human form covers all those and worgen is only needed for the racial seems pretty simple to me, no problem at all.
    What a ridiculous comparison. As a Worgen you have access to all of your armor and weapons, and weapons don't simply "vanish" when you're playing as a Worgen warrior. You're comparing that to a racial model that can't wear the vast majority of gear and whose weapons disappear out of combat? Hilarious.

    You have now merged the weapons argument into armor and weapons conflating the 2 as 1 despite starting just about weapons being a problem. While clearly they share commonalities sheathed weapons are obviously slightly different than armor xmog, as we see with back mogs hiding weapons already. You then shift to claim the dracthyr form is "worse" now but this is a nonsense argument being all kinds of player models have tons of clipping issues and back xmogs are not viewed as "worse" by the community for hiding sheathed weapons.
    1. Adding the armor issue doesn't contradict the weapons issue.
    2. An OPTIONAL back mog isn't the same as a racial limitation.
    3. All sorts of races have clipping issues, but none will be on the level as the dracthyr.

    You now claim thats not ok because people won't roll a dracthyr due to these limitations but provide 0 evidence of such a claim.
    I seriously need evidence to prove that people will avoid playing a warrior/paladin/shaman/rogue/etc. race that can't equip armor and can't show weapons?

    Then instantly try to focus on claiming the OP is just trying to stay in visage form when he has said no such thing just that if you want that its an option.
    Except he was. Good job not posting that response.

    You shift AGAIN to the point of being an evoker is to be a dragon which is irrelevant since we are talking about dracthyr being other classes,
    Which doesn't make the point irrelelvant.

    and choose to focus on wearing armor is optional for dracthyr cause dragons shift AGAIN to a lore defense from the mechanical/aesthetic. STICK TO A LANE MAN. Even worse you instantly correlate dragons lack of need for armor to warriors and rogues needing weapons? Which would work in dracthyr form for melee classes.
    Uh what lore defense? The point is that a class focused on you turning into a dragon is less armor and weapon dependent than Warriors, Rogues, Shaman, etc.

    And instant shift to warriors and rogues WANT to see weapons and armor at all times. Which you have 0 evidence for from the player base and blizzard clearly doesnt support since you can hide armor slots.
    Again, comparing an OPTION to a racial LIMITATION.

    You then start claiming blizzard won't make all the armors for dracthyr which the OP never claimed.
    I never said he did.

    Suggesting that blizzard HAS to create these armor models on dracthyr because the warrior/rogue players want to see their armor. So you made a claim based off a fact you... #justmadeup. To continue the disingenuous trend you then (and other classes)* in everyone dragging your BS made up claim even further and then saying players will avoid dracthyr due to this, to backwards justify resources?
    You ever read the Dracthyr transmog thread? That was a multi-page thread where people were complaining that the Dracthyr model couldn't properly display transmog for a class based on being a dragon. Please try to imagine a situation where we're now talking about Warriors, Rogues, etc. that can't display transmogs.

    OP points out evoker players would want to see their armor just as bad as any other class so this makes no sense (he's right), and isnt even asking for such a silly thing as making all armor work on dracthyr. The dragon custom options are plenty for any that wants to play dracthyr.
    Again, feel free to read the Dracthyr transmog thread.

    And here we are again repeating past claims instead of actually proving why your statements are correct or his are incorrect. You just say nuh uh melee classes demand the player to show armor and weaponry at all times. A BS claim and is nearly identical to where you started claiming the viability of weapons and armor is the problem.
    Again, imagine a scenario where we have a warrior that can't show armor and can't properly display weapons? Good luck with that.

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