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  1. #141
    Bloodsail Admiral Nightshade711's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Semantics? The point is that they would have to redo hundreds, if not thousands of items to get them to work with the Dracthyr.
    Incorrect.
    You have no idea how Blizzard designs armor for the races in the game.

    They’d have to put in a some work into the armor templates for sure… but they won’t need to go and manually change any single item.

  2. #142
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade711 View Post
    Incorrect.
    You have no idea how Blizzard designs armor for the races in the game.

    They’d have to put in a some work into the armor templates for sure… but they won’t need to go and manually change any single item.
    @Hitei explained it quite thoroughly in the transmog thread. And yeah, it wasn't some small thing they could do on the weekend.

    And I'll say it again, they PURPOSELY designed the Dracthyr that way. Pretty much indicating that they have no intention to move the dracthyr or evoker beyond their current parameters.

    You'll find kindred spirits here;

    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...racial-options
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...unter-3rd-spec

  3. #143
    Bloodsail Admiral Nightshade711's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    @Hitei explained it quite thoroughly in the transmog thread. And yeah, it wasn't some small thing they could do on the weekend.

    And I'll say it again, they PURPOSELY designed the Dracthyr that way. Pretty much indicating that they have no intention to move the dracthyr or evoker beyond their current parameters.

    You'll find kindred spirits here;

    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...racial-options
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...unter-3rd-spec
    Never said it’d be something they’d do in a small weekend. I even said it’d be work, but not the level of ridiculousness you’re pulling out of nowhere.
    (Though alternatively they don’t need armor for the other classes. As you said previously “that’s what the visage form is for”)

    Answer this for me, if Blizzard truly has no intention of adding other classes to the race then why did they say otherwise?
    Why did they take the time to make all of the Warrior/Rogue animations (and most of the Hunter animations) work on the Dracthyr?
    Last edited by Nightshade711; 2022-08-09 at 09:10 PM.

  4. #144
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade711 View Post
    Never said it’d be something they’d do in a small weekend. I even said it’d be work, but not the level of ridiculousness you’re pulling out of nowhere.
    (Though alternatively they don’t need armor for the other classes. As you said previously “that’s what the visage form is for”)

    Answer this for me, if Blizzard truly has no intention of adding other classes to the race then why did they say otherwise?
    Why did they take the time to make all of the Warrior/Rogue animations (and most of the Hunter animations) work on the Dracthyr?
    Again, if Blizzard intended to give Dracthyr other classes, it would have other classes now, and they wouldn't have made the Dracthyr model the antithesis of anything not Evoker.

    As I said, this is the DH new races and new spec argument all over again.

  5. #145
    Bloodsail Admiral Nightshade711's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Again, if Blizzard intended to give Dracthyr other classes, it would have other classes now, and they wouldn't have made the Dracthyr model the antithesis of anything not Evoker.
    Ignoring the question because you don’t have an answer lol.
    Can’t tell me why blizzard put in all the work to add all of the very class specific Warrior/Rogue/Hunter animations to Dracthyr?
    Or why they’ve gone on the record several times saying they could become other classes in the future. (Both Morgan Day and Ion saying it)

    They’re probably not other classes now because blizzard probably couldn’t finish every class’ animations for Dracthyr in time for Alpha, especially given the tremendous animation work that’s already gone into Dracthyr as they are now.

    It wouldn’t make sense to add only Evoker/Warrior/Rogue and possibly Hunter to Dracthyr when as you yourself brought up they could be mages/shamans/druids as well.
    So they’re probably pushing it off an expansion or two so they can get all the animations in.


    Nonetheless, blizzard clearly disagrees with most if not all of your headcanon about the Dracthyr so far.
    Last edited by Nightshade711; 2022-08-09 at 09:48 PM.

  6. #146
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade711 View Post
    Ignoring the question because you don’t have an answer lol.
    I'm not ignoring anything, I'm pointing out that actions speak louder than words. Especially when there were zero affirmative wording in anything Ion or any other Blizzard developer said.

    Can’t tell me why blizzard put in all the work to add all of the very class specific Warrior/Rogue/Hunter animations to Dracthyr?
    Or why they’ve gone on the record several times saying they could become other classes in the future. (Both Morgan Day and Ion saying it)
    "Could" =/= "Will"


    They’re probably not other classes now because blizzard probably couldn’t finish every class’ animations for Dracthyr in time for Alpha, especially given the tremendous animation work that’s already gone into Dracthyr as they are now.
    Nonsense. Blizzard has never had an issue making a new race capable of playing other classes. Pandaren for example had no issue being given multiple classes along with the new Monk class. If Blizzard wanted Drachthyr to be more classes, they would be more classes.

    It wouldn’t make sense to add only Evoker/Warrior/Rogue and possibly Hunter to Dracthyr when as you yourself brought up they could be mages/shamans/druids as well.
    So they’re probably pushing it off an expansion or two so they can get all the animations in.
    I didn't say anything about them being druids, but given their opening zone, there's no reason they couldn't be Warriors, Rogues, Mages, Hunters, Shaman, or Priests....

    Unless Blizzard doesn't want them to be those classes, and specifically designed the Dracthyr race to only work with the Evoker class.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Just answer the damn question, what do you have against more dracthyr classes, God damn....
    As it stands, the Dracthyr Evoker is a unique entity in the WoW class lineup. Opening it up to more classes and races makes the concept generic and less interesting.

    Expanding upon that, making every class available to every race is an equally terrible idea, and will hopefully never be implemented. We need more exclusive classes like Demon Hunters and Evokers, not less.

  7. #147
    Bloodsail Admiral Nightshade711's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    I'm not ignoring anything, I'm pointing out that actions speak louder than words. Especially when there were zero affirmative wording in anything Ion or any other Blizzard developer said.
    "Could" =/= "Will"
    Still ignoring the fact that the Dracthyr have Warrior/rogue animations put in, along with most of the hunter animations. That seems like quite a substantial action to me.
    Why put in all that work if the plan is to never open up those classes to Dracthyr?


    Nonsense. Blizzard has never had an issue making a new race capable of playing other classes. Pandaren for example had no issue being given multiple classes along with the new Monk class. If Blizzard wanted Drachthyr to be more classes, they would be more classes.
    If Pandaren had nearly as much animation work put into them as the Dracthyr this point might make sense.
    But Pandaren don't have any animations that other races don't have. Whereas Dracthyr have two full sets of animations for flight. Technically three if you count all of the hover animations.

    I didn't say anything about them being druids, but given their opening zone, there's no reason they couldn't be Warriors, Rogues, Mages, Hunters, Shaman, or Priests....
    Unless Blizzard doesn't want them to be those classes, and specifically designed the Dracthyr race to only work with the Evoker class.
    It's clear they designed the Dracthyr race with other classes in mind or else they wouldn't have started adding other class animations to the Dracthyr.

  8. #148
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Semantics? The point is that they would have to redo hundreds, if not thousands of items to get them to work with the Dracthyr.

    That's not going to happen.
    Do you honestly think that Blizzard painstakingly go through each individual piece of armor in the game and fit them on the model every time they create a new playable race? If you do, you're wrong, and it heavily implies you never worked with 3D modeling.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  9. #149
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade711 View Post
    Still ignoring the fact that the Dracthyr have Warrior/rogue animations put in, along with most of the hunter animations. That seems like quite a substantial action to me.
    Why put in all that work if the plan is to never open up those classes to Dracthyr?
    Probably for Dracthyr NPCs, nothing more, nothing less.


    If Pandaren had nearly as much animation work put into them as the Dracthyr this point might make sense.
    But Pandaren don't have any animations that other races don't have. Whereas Dracthyr have two full sets of animations for flight. Technically three if you count all of the hover animations.
    You should probably check out the animations of Pandaren Warriors and Rogues before you make that silly claim.

    It's clear they designed the Dracthyr race with other classes in mind or else they wouldn't have started adding other class animations to the Dracthyr.
    Like with Goblins and Worgens having Monk animations?

    Any day now…. (10+ years and counting)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Do you honestly think that Blizzard painstakingly go through each individual piece of armor in the game and fit them on the model every time they create a new playable race? If you do, you're wrong, and it heavily implies you never worked with 3D modeling.
    Well no, because every race is designed to work completely with WoW’s armor system, and their existing armor models.

    The Dracthyr were not. That should tell you something.

  10. #150
    Bloodsail Admiral Nightshade711's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Probably for Dracthyr NPCs, nothing more, nothing less.
    Why would a Dracthyr NPC need very obvious rogue or warrior-specific animations?
    Don't see any reason why they'd need to fully animate every single warrior/rogue ability for Dracthyr if they'd just be used for NPCs when there'd be plenty of other suitable replacement animations.


    You should probably check out the animations of Pandaren Warriors and Rogues before you make that silly claim.
    Yes, the Pandaren have the same overall class-specific animations. (Like mutilate, charge, ambush, furious strikes... the list goes etc)
    Though you still missed the point, racial-specific 'combat ready' and auto-attack animations are always different for each race. What's next are you going to bring up the unique dance animations?

    Still doesn't compare in the slightest to the Dracthyr having close to 100 new animations unique to them and their new class.

    Like with Goblins and Worgens having Monk animations?
    Likely because they're part of the 'shared rig' system with the other races. Same reason why Tauren had rogue animations and orcs had priest animations way before they were added.
    Dracthyr are likely not part of that system, or they'd probably have the animations for all the other classes. Including Mage, Priest, Shaman, etc.
    Last edited by Nightshade711; 2022-08-09 at 11:27 PM.

  11. #151
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade711 View Post
    Why would a Dracthyr NPC need very obvious rogue or warrior-specific animations?
    Don't see any reason why they'd need to fully animate every single warrior/rogue ability for Dracthyr if they'd just be used for NPCs when there'd be plenty of other suitable replacement animations.
    Because there's several times where NPCs use WoW class abilities for combat animation.


    Yes, the Pandaren have the same overall class-specific animations. (Like mutilate, charge, ambush, furious strikes... the list goes etc)
    Though you still missed the point, racial-specific 'combat ready' and auto-attack animations are always different for each race. What's next are you going to bring up the unique dance animations?
    You said that Pandaren don't have different animations than other races. Now you're saying that every race has different animations....

    Which one is it?


    Still doesn't compare in the slightest to the Dracthyr having close to 100 new animations unique to them and their new class.
    That's actually pretty standard for new classes, which require new animations and art assets for the class abilities. Dracthyr just happened to get a new class all to themselves.

    Likely because they're part of the 'shared rig' system with the other races. Same reason why Tauren had rogue animations and orcs had priest animations way before they were added.
    Dracthyr are obviously not part of that system, or they'd probably have the animations for all the other classes. Including Mage, Priest, Shaman, etc.
    The point is that just because a race has a class' animations doesn't mean they're getting that class.

    Anyway, this back and forth has run its course. Feel free to have the last word.

  12. #152
    Bloodsail Admiral Nightshade711's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Because there's several times where NPCs use WoW class abilities for combat animation.
    So you're saying there's going to be a time where a Dracthyr NPC will be dual wielding two two-handed weapons and striking with both weapons?


    You said that Pandaren don't have different animations than other races. Now you're saying that every race has different animations....
    Which one is it?
    Every race, including Pandaren, has 'Ready#H' animations. Only Dracthyr have the 'Advfly', 'Drachover', 'Mountfly', 'Tailswipe/wingbuffet' animations.


    That's actually pretty standard for new classes, which require new animations and art assets for the class abilities. Dracthyr just happened to get a new class all to themselves.
    DKs, Monks, and DHs didn't each require ~100 animations.
    (Monk for example only added ~20 animations... DHs added less than Monks. DKs added less than DHs, I think DK only has a handfull class-specific animations.)

    The point is that just because a race has a class' animations doesn't mean they're getting that class.
    Maybe on its own sure. But when you've got both Ion and Morgan Day saying that Dracthyr could be other classes after DF... the intent is pretty clear and for some reason you're the only one that can't see past your headcanon to understand that..
    Last edited by Nightshade711; 2022-08-09 at 11:43 PM.

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    For those of you that don't know, the evokers starting experience has a few books detailing the origins of the dracthyr.

    One of the books states that evokers are the elite of the elite, meaning that not all dracthyr are evokers. This was my original theory as to how we might get more classes added to dracs down the line.

    With the obsidian wardens and dark talons joining the alliance and horde, it's inevitable that some dracthyr will want to pursue the way of the warrior or mage.

    Will it be for the final patch of DF or maybe at the start of 11.0? Who knows but it's more than certain.

    That being said, what classes will dracthyr have, assuming blizzard doesn't open up all classes to all races....


    Now warrior, mage, rogue, hunter, and priest are a given. Since all races will be all of those classes come DF. But what else....

    DK and DH, unlikely as they'd need an entire new intro.

    Shaman and druids, Dont see why not. Though perhaps the conflict between the primalists and aspects might be a reason not to have shaman.

    Monk, 4 limbs, check.

    Warlock, if there isn't some silly lore that dragons are against using fel, then sure.

    Paladin, the dragons connection to Tyr mean ls they'd probably join the silver hand in honor of Tyr. There's even a statue in thaldrazus with a Female Titan keeper holding the silver hand.


    So there you go, I already started creating a drac paladin I'm the wowhead dressing room for the day they're available
    The dracthyr should remain a one class race, thats the whole point in them, a failed evoker means they cant use the powers of all 5 dragonflights but they probably have access to powers from at least 1-2 of the flights since they are still a dragon class. So even a dracthyr that is not an evoker should have plenty of strength.

    There needs to be more unique things in games and not just allowing players to do anything they want, the majority of players roll human/belf or nelf the other races are far less represented.

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    The dracthyr should remain a one class race, thats the whole point in them, a failed evoker means they cant use the powers of all 5 dragonflights but they probably have access to powers from at least 1-2 of the flights since they are still a dragon class. So even a dracthyr that is not an evoker should have plenty of strength.

    There needs to be more unique things in games and not just allowing players to do anything they want, the majority of players roll human/belf or nelf the other races are far less represented.
    Tell that to pale velves....

    But that's is not the sole point of a dracthyr.....

    They're all supposed to be elite soldiers, but the evokers are the special select few.

    They're not just semi evokers... So those are meant to be other classes after they no join the ranks of the horse and alliance. Idk how you see it that as a bad thing...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    I'm not ignoring anything, I'm pointing out that actions speak louder than words. Especially when there were zero affirmative wording in anything Ion or any other Blizzard developer said.



    "Could" =/= "Will"




    Nonsense. Blizzard has never had an issue making a new race capable of playing other classes. Pandaren for example had no issue being given multiple classes along with the new Monk class. If Blizzard wanted Drachthyr to be more classes, they would be more classes.



    I didn't say anything about them being druids, but given their opening zone, there's no reason they couldn't be Warriors, Rogues, Mages, Hunters, Shaman, or Priests....

    Unless Blizzard doesn't want them to be those classes, and specifically designed the Dracthyr race to only work with the Evoker class.

    - - - Updated - - -



    As it stands, the Dracthyr Evoker is a unique entity in the WoW class lineup. Opening it up to more classes and races makes the concept generic and less interesting.

    Expanding upon that, making every class available to every race is an equally terrible idea, and will hopefully never be implemented. We need more exclusive classes like Demon Hunters and Evokers, not less.
    Yeah well agree to disagree man. I would have agreed with you at one point. But one race for one class is to much of an extreme in an MMO. Especially when player agency is preached to be so important.

    The fact that not all of them are evokers is just proof that it's going down the path I'm saying and it's only gonna be a positive thing. Don't be so pessimistic, it just shows you how awesome dracthyr are.

    You don't want them to stagnate the way pandaren did

  15. #155
    Bloodsail Admiral Nightshade711's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Yeah well agree to disagree man. I would have agreed with you at one point. But one race for one class is to much of an extreme in an MMO. Especially when player agency is preached to be so important.

    The fact that not all of them are evokers is just proof that it's going down the path I'm saying and it's only gonna be a positive thing. Don't be so pessimistic, it just shows you how awesome dracthyr are.

    You don't want them to stagnate the way pandaren did
    I personally like the idea behind a Dracthyr who couldn't become an Evoker learning a different style of combat and becoming as strong as an Evoker in their respective new class.
    Kind of like an underdog story.

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade711 View Post
    I personally like the idea behind a Dracthyr who couldn't become an Evoker learning a different style of combat and becoming as strong as an Evoker in their respective new class.
    Kind of like an underdog story.
    That is exactly what I thought of, it's freaking classic.

  17. #157
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Yeah well agree to disagree man. I would have agreed with you at one point. But one race for one class is to much of an extreme in an MMO. Especially when player agency is preached to be so important.
    One race for one class gives us something unique, not just another generic race or class. We should be applauding this design choice, not complaining about it. Racials like Soar and abilities like Fly with Me, Rescue, Deep Breath, and Wing Buffet are also possible becaue every Evoker will be a Dracthyr and vice versa.

    I'll be enjoying the Dracthyr Evoker as the race-class combo it was meant to be. Hopefully it stays that way for years to come.

    You don't want them to stagnate the way pandaren did
    They won't. You're literally playing as a dragon that has flight as a racial ability.

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    One race for one class gives us something unique, not just another generic race or class. We should be applauding this design choice, not complaining about it. Racials like Soar and abilities like Fly with Me, Rescue, Deep Breath, and Wing Buffet are also possible becaue every Evoker will be a Dracthyr and vice versa.

    I'll be enjoying the Dracthyr Evoker as the race-class combo it was meant to be. Hopefully it stays that way for years to come.



    They won't. You're literally playing as a dragon that has flight as a racial ability.
    Dude everything is "omg thuper cool you guys" when it first comes out....


    4 years from now it's not gonna be too hot.

    You think 1 race for 1 class is gonna age like wine? Don't kid your self
    Last edited by Varx; 2022-08-10 at 02:17 AM.

  19. #159
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Well no, because every race is designed to work completely with WoW’s armor system, and their existing armor models.

    The Dracthyr were not. That should tell you something.
    The dracthyr do. Evidence of that is that you can customize its armor. There is nothing on the dracthyr model that indicates it doesn't.
    • Weirdly shaped head? Nah. We got tauren and worgen.
    • Weirdly proportionate body? Nah, we got gnomes and goblins and vulpera.
    • Tail? Nah. We got tauren, draenei and vulpera.
    • Wings? Nah. Because the model already has armor that wraps completely around their torsos.
    • Weapon sheathe on the back? Nah. Because the dracthyr can already wield staves, that stash on your back.

    You just erroneously think it doesn't, solely because it fits your argument.

    That should tell you something.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  20. #160
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    The dracthyr do. Evidence of that is that you can customize its armor. There is nothing on the dracthyr model that indicates it doesn't.
    • Weirdly shaped head? Nah. We got tauren and worgen.
    • Weirdly proportionate body? Nah, we got gnomes and goblins and vulpera.
    • Tail? Nah. We got tauren, draenei and vulpera.
    • Wings? Nah. Because the model already has armor that wraps completely around their torsos.
    • Weapon sheathe on the back? Nah. Because the dracthyr can already wield staves, that stash on your back.

    You just erroneously think it doesn't, solely because it fits your argument.

    That should tell you something.
    So you're saying that Blizzard is purposely not allowing the Dracthyr dragon form to wear equipable helmets, cloaks, chest armor, pants, etc when they actually can?

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