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  1. #161
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    So you're saying that Blizzard is purposely not allowing the Dracthyr dragon form to wear equipable helmets, cloaks, chest armor, pants, etc when they actually can?
    Pretty much, yes.

    I say they're trying to give the dracthyr something unique that--in my eyes and I assume also in the eyes of many others-- falls short, to say the least. Because nothing in the dracthyr's body and/or model indicates that they cannot use the armor already existing in the game. Each every exotic characteristic the dracthyr have is either shared with another existing race-- such as horns, tails, snouts, etc-- or are really irrelevant regarding the use of armor-- such as the wings.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  2. #162
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Pretty much, yes.
    LoL! Of course you would believe that.

    The dracthyr model does not properly map WoW armor, which is why it uses that specially made barbershop armor.

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    LoL! Of course you would believe that.

    The dracthyr model does not properly map WoW armor, which is why it uses that specially made barbershop armor.
    Look you already confirmed that you personally want that dracthyr evokers stagnate in their own pool of dragoness till the end of time because having a class race combo be restricted to each other is a good thing for an MMO that's all about player choice and angency...

    As much as I disagree with that, dont claim you know the actual technical or philosophical reasons why dracthyr can't wear armor. If blizzard really really wanted to they'd be able to do it. Not like windows is gonna crash cuz an intern attempted to put them in vanilla gear.

    Regardless like I've been saying that's not a reason to omit more dracthyr classes, I've explained plenty already why, orcy in loin cloth for example.

    You like it that way, fine w/e. But the majority of players would get sick of it years down the line. Plus you know how much revenue blizz would get in race changes?

    Literally no one loses except a small majority who have no real reason to restrict them except just cause.

  4. #164
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Look you already confirmed that you personally want that dracthyr evokers stagnate in their own pool of dragoness till the end of time because having a class race combo be restricted to each other is a good thing for an MMO that's all about player choice and angency...
    It's a very good thing when you have a class as original and unique as the Dracthyr Evoker.

    As much as I disagree with that, dont claim you know the actual technical or philosophical reasons why dracthyr can't wear armor. If blizzard really really wanted to they'd be able to do it. Not like windows is gonna crash cuz an intern attempted to put them in vanilla gear.

    Regardless like I've been saying that's not a reason to omit more dracthyr classes, I've explained plenty already why, orcy in loin cloth for example.

    You like it that way, fine w/e. But the majority of players would get sick of it years down the line. Plus you know how much revenue blizz would get in race changes?

    Literally no one loses except a small majority who have no real reason to restrict them except just cause.
    And like I said, for the next 2+ years we're guaranteed Dracthyr Evoker exclusivity. Feel free to bring this back up again in 2024 when the next expansion is announced.

  5. #165
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    LoL! Of course you would believe that.
    Because I believe facts.

    The dracthyr model does not properly map WoW armor, which is why it uses that specially made barbershop armor.
    You're making more and more evident that you never once worked with 3D modeling. I've explained why your argument fails. I've explained-- with examples-- how the dracthyr model isn't this unsolvable eldritch enigma that makes the usage of normal armor impossible on them.

    I've shown how the present races all share an "exotic characteristic" the dracthyr has-- such as horns, tails, etc-- that you claim make the usage of armor impossible, and yet those races can still use armor normally. I've shown you to you that your argument about how dracthyr not being able to show off weapons stashed on their backs is not a problem because they can wield staves and other two-handed weapons with no problem. I've shown you how the barber shop armor debunks the claim that dracthyr cannot wear armor "because of wings" because some of the options in it wrap completely around the model's torso and the wings just clip out through the back of it.

    And what has been your counter-argument every time I present those facts to you? "Lol no u!" like a spoiled child. You don't present a single shred of evidence to argue against my evidence. You just dismiss it entirely without addressing it. Not even once you even tried to address the arguments presented to you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  6. #166
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Because I believe facts.


    You're making more and more evident that you never once worked with 3D modeling. I've explained why your argument fails. I've explained-- with examples-- how the dracthyr model isn't this unsolvable eldritch enigma that makes the usage of normal armor impossible on them.

    I've shown how the present races all share an "exotic characteristic" the dracthyr has-- such as horns, tails, etc-- that you claim make the usage of armor impossible, and yet those races can still use armor normally. I've shown you to you that your argument about how dracthyr not being able to show off weapons stashed on their backs is not a problem because they can wield staves and other two-handed weapons with no problem. I've shown you how the barber shop armor debunks the claim that dracthyr cannot wear armor "because of wings" because some of the options in it wrap completely around the model's torso and the wings just clip out through the back of it.

    And what has been your counter-argument every time I present those facts to you? "Lol no u!" like a spoiled child. You don't present a single shred of evidence to argue against my evidence. You just dismiss it entirely without addressing it. Not even once you even tried to address the arguments presented to you.

    No, my counter-argument is that Dracthyr can't equip standard armor beyond belts and shoulders, and that the Dracthyr race is only confined to a single class, and will be confined to that class for years to come.

    But by all means, continue believing in your personal headcanon and conspiracy theories.

  7. #167
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    No, my counter-argument is that Dracthyr can't equip standard armor beyond belts and shoulders,
    Once again presenting absolutely zero evidence while attempting to dismiss an argument full of evidence. In other words, "lol no u" again.

    and that the Dracthyr race is only confined to a single class, and will be confined to that class for years to come.
    Which is irrelevant to the argument here. The argument here is about debunking your claims as to why dracthyr cannot wear armor.

    But by all means, continue believing in your personal headcanon and conspiracy theories.
    "Keep believing in conspiracy theories", says the guy who loves to believe conspiracy theories when they agree with your beliefs, such as "mechanical dragon mounts/pets prove tinkers will be a playable class in Dragonflight", or "ghostbusting technology means tinkers will be a playable class in Shadowlands"?
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  8. #168
    Bloodsail Admiral Nightshade711's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    LoL! Of course you would believe that.

    The dracthyr model does not properly map WoW armor, which is why it uses that specially made barbershop armor.
    Weird. You used to believe wholeheartedly that Blizzard would absolutely find a way to make playing a large quadrupedal dragon viable… but don’t think the same blizzard could make transmogged armor viable for Dracthyr?

  9. #169
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Once again presenting absolutely zero evidence while attempting to dismiss an argument full of evidence. In other words, "lol no u" again.
    In the argument that Dracthyr cannot equip standard armor, the fact that they can only equip shoulders and belts is evidence.

    Which is irrelevant to the argument here. The argument here is about debunking your claims as to why dracthyr cannot wear armor.
    Actually, it isn't. If the Dracthyr are designed to only be Evokers, it makes sense to create a model that doesnt need to equip standard armor, because the class the Dracthyr are made for is based around creatures that don't require armor or weaponry.

    "Keep believing in conspiracy theories", says the guy who loves to believe conspiracy theories when they agree with your beliefs, such as "mechanical dragon mounts/pets prove tinkers will be a playable class in Dragonflight", or "ghostbusting technology means tinkers will be a playable class in Shadowlands"?
    Do you really want to compare? Weren't you just arguing that Evokers contained no black dragon abilities, that their red abilities couldn't heal, and that the Evoker class doesn't contain any HotS abilities? All completely, utterly wrong. You're bringing up things I stated in speculation. In your case, these facts were already known when you made those statements, and you simply ignored the facts.

    Like you're doing right now.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade711 View Post
    Weird. You used to believe wholeheartedly that Blizzard would absolutely find a way to make playing a large quadrupedal dragon viable… but don’t think the same blizzard could make transmogged armor viable for Dracthyr?
    I do believe that I stated that if Blizzard wanted a quadrupedal dragon, they could make it happen. I didn't believe it was an impossible task like you did. I still don't believe it is, however all things considered, a bipedal dragon makes sense, and is a good compromise.

  10. #170
    Bloodsail Admiral Nightshade711's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    I do believe that I stated that if Blizzard wanted a quadrupedal dragon, they could make it happen. I didn't believe it was an impossible task like you did. I still don't believe it is, however all things considered, a bipedal dragon makes sense, and is a good compromise.
    So… you believe that Blizzard could do all of that, despite the glaring issues having such a big/long model/hit box would have…

    But you think it’s an impossible task for Blizzard to make transmogged armor work on a Dracthyr.

    Despite the fact that they already wear armor from the barber shop, proving it’s possible to map armor to the Dracthyr in general.

  11. #171
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade711 View Post
    So… you believe that Blizzard could do all of that, despite the glaring issues having such a big/long model/hit box would have…

    But you think it’s an impossible task for Blizzard to make transmogged armor work on a Dracthyr.

    Despite the fact that they already wear armor from the barber shop, proving it’s possible to map armor to the Dracthyr in general.
    Where did I say it was impossible? I simply said that converting every armor piece would take a lot of work. Further, performing that task makes little sense when Blizzard purposely designed the Dracthyr model to not be able to wear the armor pieces in the first place. If the goal was to have the Dracthyr wear standard armor, they would have designed it that way from the beginning.

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    It's a very good thing when you have a class as original and unique as the Dracthyr Evoker.



    And like I said, for the next 2+ years we're guaranteed Dracthyr Evoker exclusivity. Feel free to bring this back up again in 2024 when the next expansion is announced.
    Well yeah I don't expect more classes for dracs for the entirety of DF, I mean of we get it sooner then great but I highly doubt it.

    Again, I just don't agree with your opinion. Have such an awesome race be forced for one class kills lots of possibilities for many players at the cost of everything while the opposite brings so much at the cost of nothing or personal biases such as yours. But I er all it'll be a good thing for the longevity of the game and the race.

    As for evokers, there's even ways to give that to be other races too.

    Lore wise, a council of drac evokers empower the .mortal races.

    Mechanic wise, using abilities that need dracthyr anatomy would morph you into an ethereal dragon form like how Eye beam for dhs turn them into meta for the spell's animation.

    Boom

  13. #173
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Well yeah I don't expect more classes for dracs for the entirety of DF, I mean of we get it sooner then great but I highly doubt it.

    Again, I just don't agree with your opinion. Have such an awesome race be forced for one class kills lots of possibilities for many players at the cost of everything while the opposite brings so much at the cost of nothing or personal biases such as yours. But I er all it'll be a good thing for the longevity of the game and the race.
    Another race being added that can be the standard races really means nothing. It's just a new skin on the existing classes.

    As for evokers, there's even ways to give that to be other races too.

    Lore wise, a council of drac evokers empower the .mortal races.

    Mechanic wise, using abilities that need dracthyr anatomy would morph you into an ethereal dragon form like how Eye beam for dhs turn them into meta for the spell's animation.

    Boom
    And that would be a massive mistake. Thankfully we don't have to worry about Blizzard ever doing that.

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Another race being added that can be the standard races really means nothing. It's just a new skin on the existing classes.



    And that would be a massive mistake. Thankfully we don't have to worry about Blizzard ever doing that.
    How does it mean nothing?? Your race is 1/2 of your toons identity.

    How would that be a massive mistake exactly?

  15. #175
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    How does it mean nothing?? Your race is 1/2 of your toons identity.
    Again, because it's just a new skin for existing classes with maybe some new animations tossed in. New races are not as profound gameplay-wise as new classes.

    How would that be a massive mistake exactly?
    Because it would be corny, cheesy, and ridiculous. Further it undermines why the Dracthyr Evoker was created in the first place. Blizzard created DEs to specifically avoid creating what you're describing here.

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Again, because it's just a new skin for existing classes with maybe some new animations tossed in. New races are not as profound gameplay-wise as new classes.



    Because it would be corny, cheesy, and ridiculous. Further it undermines why the Dracthyr Evoker was created in the first place. Blizzard created DEs to specifically avoid creating what you're describing here.
    My dude this is for the future... Not now. It's make no sense now and would definitely dilute the charm of dracs and evokers.

    You think anyone ever thought there's be tauren rogues and mages in wow?

    Use that creativity you used to make your class concepts.

    But seriously though, a race is not as simple as your describing it. I mean racials aside, your race is a big part of a players identity they're creating for their toon.

    I mean a human paladin is gonna feel so much different than a drac paladin for both players. Maybe one is a lotr fanboy while the other has a spiro fetish.

    They game evolves man... Shit gets boring if it doesn't.

  17. #177
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    My dude this is for the future... Not now. It's make no sense now and would definitely dilute the charm of dracs and evokers.

    You think anyone ever thought there's be tauren rogues and mages in wow?

    Use that creativity you used to make your class concepts.
    You're missing the point; Blizzard specifically designed the Dracthyr Evoker to avoid everything you're suggesting here. Everything you're proposing would actually be Blizzard working backwards from their current design, which makes no sense.

    Again, if the goal was to allow Dracs to be other classes, they would be other classes currently, and would use the Drakonoid model that can wear standard armor. If the goal was to give the Evoker to other races, that would be the case now, and they wouldn't have created the Dracthyr race in the first place. The devs said very clearly that they created the DE because no existing race or class fit their vision of the Evoker.

    But seriously though, a race is as simple as your describing it. I mean racials aside, your race is a big part of a players identity they're creating for their toon.

    I mean a human paladin is gonna feel so much different than a drac paladin for both players. Maybe one is a lotr fanboy while the other has a spiro fetish.

    They game evolves man... Shit gets boring if it doesn't.
    The game will evolve just fine with the Dracthyr Evoker remaining exclusive to each other.

  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    You're missing the point; Blizzard specifically designed the Dracthyr Evoker to avoid everything you're suggesting here. Everything you're proposing would actually be Blizzard working backwards from their current design, which makes no sense.

    Again, if the goal was to allow Dracs to be other classes, they would be other classes currently, and would use the Drakonoid model that can wear standard armor. If the goal was to give the Evoker to other races, that would be the case now, and they wouldn't have created the Dracthyr race in the first place. The devs said very clearly that they created the DE because no existing race or class fit their vision of the Evoker.



    The game will evolve just fine with the Dracthyr Evoker remaining exclusive to each other.
    Man you talk like your a dev setting in a cube...

    You don't know what their design philosophy is and what their future goal is.

    You think they made class restrictions in vanilla and told themselves, "hmm, 18 years from now we're gonna allow cows to be rouges and mages."


    Of course not. No, they designed dracs and evokers with Dragonflight in mind. If you think that the dynamics of the drac is just gonna stay as is, especially with seeds for more drac classes existing in their starting zone already
    Then you're just lying to yourself.

  19. #179
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    In the argument that Dracthyr cannot equip standard armor, the fact that they can only equip shoulders and belts is evidence.
    It's not. Because the reason dracthyr can only display shoulders and belts is because Blizzard doesn't want to, and not because there are "technical issues" that make it not work.

    Again: the reason dracthyr can only display shoulders and belts is purely by Blizzard's decision, and not because of technical limitations. Because there are no "technical limitations" that are not shared by the other present races or evidenced in quests around the world, and yet those races wear armor as normal.

    Actually, it isn't. If the Dracthyr are designed to only be Evokers, it makes sense to create a model that doesnt need to equip standard armor, because the class the Dracthyr are made for is based around creatures that don't require armor or weaponry.
    That is nonsensical. The dracthyr wear mail armor. And "equipping more powerful gear as you progress" is a cornerstone of roleplaying games.

    that their red abilities couldn't heal
    They don't. They deal damage. Since, y'know, the red dragonflight magic is part of the destruction spec, not the preservation spec.

    and that the Evoker class doesn't contain any HotS abilities?
    I didn't say that. I said that you can't claim that "hots abilities are in the evoker" back when we didn't know a single ability in the class toolkit. You made a wrong inference that because Alexstrasza's healing spells are green in HotS, and the one nameless healing spell shown in the expansion reveal video was green, you claimed as fact that both abilities were one and the same.

    All completely, utterly wrong.
    All your misrepresentations are utterly wrong, yes.

    You're bringing up things I stated in speculation.
    And you're using speculation here to deny facts. I pointed out several facts that debunk your claim that "the dracthyr model cannot wear armor due to technical limitations", which you failed to address even a single one of them. You just ignored them all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  20. #180
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    It's not. Because the reason dracthyr can only display shoulders and belts is because Blizzard doesn't want to, and not because there are "technical issues" that make it not work.
    Because Blizzard designed them that way, which is why there is a technical issue with Dracthyr and standard armor.

    Again: the reason dracthyr can only display shoulders and belts is purely by Blizzard's decision, and not because of technical limitations. Because there are no "technical limitations" that are not shared by the other present races or evidenced in quests around the world, and yet those races wear armor as normal.
    Again, Blizzard's design decision caused the technical limitation. It is an intentional design.

    That is nonsensical. The dracthyr wear mail armor. And "equipping more powerful gear as you progress" is a cornerstone of roleplaying games.
    The Evoker is a class designed to primarily fight in dragon form, a form where the display of armor and weapons is not a requirement. Very similar to Druids.


    They don't. They deal damage. Since, y'know, the red dragonflight magic is part of the destruction spec, not the preservation spec.

    Living Flame (Red): Send a flickering flame towards your target, dealing (200% of Spell power) Fire damage to an enemy or healing an ally for (275% of Spell power).

    Renewing Blaze (Red): The flames of life surround you for 8 sec, healing you over 14 sec for 100% of damage taken. Class Talent.

    Cauterizing Flame (Red): Cauterize an ally's wounds, removing all Bleed, Poison, Curse, and Disease effects. Heals for (350% of Spell power) upon removing any effect. 1 min cooldown. Class Talent.

    Life Giver's Flame: Fire Breath (Red) heals a nearby injured ally for 80% of damage done.


    I didn't say that. I said that you can't claim that "hots abilities are in the evoker" back when we didn't know a single ability in the class toolkit. You made a wrong inference that because Alexstrasza's healing spells are green in HotS, and the one nameless healing spell shown in the expansion reveal video was green, you claimed as fact that both abilities were one and the same.
    And yet there are HotS abilities in the Evoker class, something you said would not be the case.


    All your misrepresentations are utterly wrong, yes.

    And you're using speculation here to deny facts. I pointed out several facts that debunk your claim that "the dracthyr model cannot wear armor due to technical limitations", which you failed to address even a single one of them. You just ignored them all.
    And yet Dracthyr still cannot wear equipable armor beyond belts and shoulders....

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