Dracthyr classes

[Alyajna]

I love the human form for Dracthry and honestly could care less about the dragon form. I would be more likely to play an Evoker if I could never enter dragon form.
As of now Evoker as a class doesn't really interest me, but the race does.
I don't like the dragon form at all, bipedal dragon just looks bizarre. However, the visage looks absolutely awesome, and there are so many options. I am someone that "just plays the game" and doesn't pay too much attention to the lore aside from the major events, so do I care the apparently Dracthry are only supposed to be Evokers or do I just want to play the latest race that has more customization options then all of the old ones combined?
We've been playing the same races for too long, and Allied Races were finally a step in adding more to the game but the customization is ridiculously limited. For a player such as me, customization is pretty much everything and it's taken blizzard a long time to realize that. If they add more (much more) options to the other races, my desire to play a Dracthry race might diminish.

I couldn't care less that I wouldn't see armor/weapon pieces in dragon form. Played feral for ages, so the precedent is already there. I'd pay for a race change for any of the classes I play that could become Dracthry.

[unfunnymeme]

Accept it doesn't, because there are Shaman-style NPCs in their starter zone, and there's no reason why they couldn't figure out how to be warriors on their own when they have melee weapons such as swords. Further they have access to Arcane, Frost, and Fire magic via the dragonflights. Why would they require contact with outside forces to learn what they already know?

It doesn't necessarily require contact with outside forces, that statement is just typical stupidity from Hazzikostas trying to make something up on the fly(which he's fucking terrible at). They already have Warriors and other classes available to them, the book in their starting zone makes that clear.
They would need contact with the outside world to learn something forbidden and taboo, like Fel magic. That honestly makes Warlock make more sense than most, since it genuinely provides a strong motivating factor(more power).

[Maxilian]

I feel that the underlying point is that Blizzard has no desire to do either.

As it should be.

That's a possibility.

[Teriz]

It doesn't necessarily require contact with outside forces, that statement is just typical stupidity from Hazzikostas trying to make something up on the fly(which he's fucking terrible at). They already have Warriors and other classes available to them, the book in their starting zone makes that clear.
They would need contact with the outside world to learn something forbidden and taboo, like Fel magic. That honestly makes Warlock make more sense than most, since it genuinely provides a strong motivating factor(more power).

Exactly. As I stated before, if the goal was to have dracthyr be other classes, they would be other classes currently, not years down the road. Blizzard made it quite clear that Dracthyr are Evokers, and Evokers are Dracthyr, with no intention of ever spreading the concept to other classes or races.

[unfunnymeme]

Exactly. As I stated before, if the goal was to have dracthyr be other classes, they would be other classes currently, not years down the road. Blizzard made it quite clear that Dracthyr are Evokers, and Evokers are Dracthyr, with no intention of ever spreading the concept to other classes or races.

It's likely just a time constraint and dev skill issue and they will get a couple more classes next expansion/later in DF(if things go poorly).
There is absolutely nothing to suggest they never intend to give them more classes.

[Eosia]

Unfortunately for the rest of time, Dracthyr Evoker players will have to endure constant pleads for this nonsense just like DH players in our forums.

Par the course I suppose.

When the story allows for it, they will create the new starting area.

Take a look at Death Knights. Prior to Patch 8.3, all Death Knights started out before the events of Wrath of the Lich King. With the lone exception of Zandalari Trolls and Draenei, all the races that could be Death Knights were present in Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdoms at the time of the Third War when Arthas was active. Blizzard did not give Zandalari Trolls to Horde and gave the Alliance Draenei DKs because it would have been unfair to have Horde have two extra races, said Zandalari Trolls and High Elves, available to them as DKs but Alliance only having Humans/Dwarves/Gnomes/Night Elves. They did this again in Cataclysm since Worgen since they are immune to being risen as Undead and Goblins not so much. And if you roll a DK of any race from the basic 4 in Vanilla to Pandaren in MoP, you still start out in Eastern Kingdoms, attacking the Scarlet Enclave and such.

But, if you create one as an allied race, your scenario is you are a hero that fell during the events of BfA and were risen by Bolvar. This makes added sense with Shadowlands being about the realms of death and the revelation the Zovaal was the ultimate force behind the creation of the Lich King and the Scourge.

The same thing applies to Demon Hunters. We need a reason to need them as a driving force again. This will involve either Illidan returning from the Seat of the Pantheon or, most likely, Kain Sunfury and Altrius decide to start training others to become Demon Hunters. Because, like Death Knights, Demon Hunters are currently time-locked to the events of Patch 2.2. They start out literally as The Black Temple is being assaulted and return to it just after the raid has defeated Illidan. They're then captured and imprisoned for all the intervening years between then and the Gul'dan opening the portal for the Legion at the Tomb of Sargeras, kicking off Legion.

Blizzard has already said that their plan is to eventually have all races be all classes. It just has to make sense to the story. There will be other combinations that present some difficulties like Undead Paladins and such. But they've already taken the first step with 10.0 bringing in the ability for every races to be a Mage, Priest, or Rogue. Others will soon follow as I am surprised Hunter, Warrior, and Warlock are not part of that too.

And no, I don't think we are going to have another 12 year wait between 10.0's launch and Dracthyr being able to be other classes and other races being able to be Evokers.

[Ielenia]

And if you roll a DK of any race from the basic 4 in Vanilla to Pandaren in MoP, you still start out in Eastern Kingdoms, attacking the Scarlet Enclave and such.

Just wanted to point out a slight correction, you couldn't be a Pandaren DK until Shadowlands, where you start along with the other DKs at the Icecrown Citadel.

Unfortunately for the rest of time, Dracthyr Evoker players will have to endure constant pleads for this nonsense just like DH players in our forums.

Par the course I suppose.

WoW players in this forum endured your "tinker nonsense" for nearly a decade, so I think we'll be fine.

[Teriz]

It's likely just a time constraint and dev skill issue and they will get a couple more classes next expansion/later in DF(if things go poorly).
There is absolutely nothing to suggest they never intend to give them more classes.

I would argue that Blizzard using the exclusivity of the Dracthyr as a "cool" expansion feature is a rather big suggestion.

NEW PLAYABLE RACE-AND-CLASS
DRACTHYR EVOKER
Dominate the Dragon Isles as a newly awakened Dracthyr Evoker, World of Warcraft’s first-ever playable race-and-class combo.

https://dragonflight.blizzard.com/en-us/

[Mace]

I love the human form for Dracthry and honestly could care less about the dragon form. I would be more likely to play an Evoker if I could never enter dragon form.

Indeed, I've tried to explaint o people, that this is why they did do two forms for it, and why being able to fight fully in visage form (minus a short auto change for dragon abilities) should be standard.

I realised some people don't understand this - either that or they just don't like that it has a visage form because it resembles an elf and they're transfering all their elf hate to it.

As of now Evoker as a class doesn't really interest me, but the race does.

I'm sure it will happen down the line.

[Teriz]

When the story allows for it, they will create the new starting area.

Take a look at Death Knights. Prior to Patch 8.3, all Death Knights started out before the events of Wrath of the Lich King. With the lone exception of Zandalari Trolls and Draenei, all the races that could be Death Knights were present in Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdoms at the time of the Third War when Arthas was active. Blizzard did not give Zandalari Trolls to Horde and gave the Alliance Draenei DKs because it would have been unfair to have Horde have two extra races, said Zandalari Trolls and High Elves, available to them as DKs but Alliance only having Humans/Dwarves/Gnomes/Night Elves. They did this again in Cataclysm since Worgen since they are immune to being risen as Undead and Goblins not so much. And if you roll a DK of any race from the basic 4 in Vanilla to Pandaren in MoP, you still start out in Eastern Kingdoms, attacking the Scarlet Enclave and such.

But, if you create one as an allied race, your scenario is you are a hero that fell during the events of BfA and were risen by Bolvar. This makes added sense with Shadowlands being about the realms of death and the revelation the Zovaal was the ultimate force behind the creation of the Lich King and the Scourge.

The same thing applies to Demon Hunters. We need a reason to need them as a driving force again. This will involve either Illidan returning from the Seat of the Pantheon or, most likely, Kain Sunfury and Altrius decide to start training others to become Demon Hunters. Because, like Death Knights, Demon Hunters are currently time-locked to the events of Patch 2.2. They start out literally as The Black Temple is being assaulted and return to it just after the raid has defeated Illidan. They're then captured and imprisoned for all the intervening years between then and the Gul'dan opening the portal for the Legion at the Tomb of Sargeras, kicking off Legion.

Blizzard has already said that their plan is to eventually have all races be all classes. It just has to make sense to the story. There will be other combinations that present some difficulties like Undead Paladins and such. But they've already taken the first step with 10.0 bringing in the ability for every races to be a Mage, Priest, or Rogue. Others will soon follow as I am surprised Hunter, Warrior, and Warlock are not part of that too.

And no, I don't think we are going to have another 12 year wait between 10.0's launch and Dracthyr being able to be other classes and other races being able to be Evokers.

That's a class expansion. We're talking about a race here. Further, the only thing that stopped other races from being DKs was lore. The Dracthyr have clear technical hurdles to overcome, along with the fact that the race was pretty much designed with the Evoker's abilities in mind. You take away the Evoker, and a lot of the stuff that the race has, such as its wings, doesn't make a lot of sense.

[Kyriani]

They said the following;



https://gamerant.com/world-of-warcra...-restrictions/

I think this is another case where people latch onto a quote and interpret it the way they want. Blizzard made Priests, Mages, and Rogues available to all races. That isn't really a precedent to believe that all classes will be available to all races. Especially classes like Druids, Demon Hunters and now Evokers which have very specific attributes that can't be easily spread to several races. It seems rather silly to believe that Blizzard wants to make all classes open to all races when they haven't budged on DH race limitations, and they're about to release the most restricted race/class combo in the history of the game.

I acknowledged in my post that there's no telling if or when Blizzard will follow through with getting every class to every race. But the fact is, you see the quote for yourself. It is something they want to move towards. How close they get to that and how long it takes is up in the air. /shrug.

As to the Dracthyr being other classes, I simply don't see it happening. Again, if Blizzard wanted a dragon-based race that could be any class, they wouldn't have designed a dragon-based race with huge wings, a tail to clip 2H weapons, shields, and cloaks, and multiple attributes that make mapping standard armor impossible.

I think it's more likely than not for dracthyr to gain access to more classes. I think it's less likely to see evoker become available to other races anytime within the next few expansions.

Accept it doesn't, because there are Shaman-style NPCs in their starter zone, and there's no reason why they couldn't figure out how to be warriors on their own when they have melee weapons such as swords. Further they have access to Arcane, Frost, and Fire magic via the dragonflights. Why would they require contact with outside forces to learn what they already know?

Haven't the dracthyr been asleep for thousands of years? Wouldn't the only experiences they have be that which they acquired before hibernation? And wouldn't those experience be primarily the mastering of the evoker class?

If a dracthyr decided they wanted to be a class other than evoker post-dragonflight, there's no logical reason why they couldn't. And no matter what they had access to prior to hibernation, the fact is, they know nothing of how things have evolved over... what was it? 10,000 years? The arts of warfare and magic have advanced greatly since then I am certain. There would undoubtedly be new things to learn from the outside world.

The only way that works is if the other races can somehow turn into dragons, which would be utterly silly, and completely jump the shark in terms of concept and seriousness. I certainly don't hope that ANY of that takes place. Best to leave things the way they are.

As mentioned before, the eyebeam/meta route for any abilities that require the draconic form animations is one solution to that. But Blizzard could always come up with something else if they want, like just making new animations for those abilities for non-dracthyr. But as I said above, I see dracthyr gaining access to other classes long before we ever see evoker made available to other races, if ever.

[Teriz]

Haven't the dracthyr been asleep for thousands of years? Wouldn't the only experiences they have be that which they acquired before hibernation? And wouldn't those experience be primarily the mastering of the evoker class?

No. They were clearly awake and trained before that time, which is why they have an order already in place, and various sections within that order. We see Dracthyr with armor and melee weapons, and clearly the skill to use them. Where's the warrior class? They have full knowledge of the elements via experience dealing with the primals. Where's the Shaman class? They have knowledge of Arcane, Frost, and Fire magic from the flights. Where's the mage class? The Draenei came from a completely different planet and knew various classes. The Pandaren were isolated on a floating turtle and knew multiple classes. The Vulpera were being subjugated, yet they could still be various classes. Why would the Dracthyr need contact with other races to know other classes? They're elite soldiers created by an aspect.

If a dracthyr decided they wanted to be a class other than evoker post-dragonflight, there's no logical reason why they couldn't. And no matter what they had access to prior to hibernation, the fact is, they know nothing of how things have evolved over... what was it? 10,000 years? The arts of warfare and magic have advanced greatly since then I am certain. There would undoubtedly be new things to learn from the outside world.

As shown above, that has never stopped other races from entering the game already knowing different classes. Lorewise every race in WoW has their own martial traditions and magical heritages. The idea that the Dracthyr need to learn it from other races is nonsense. Especially when out the gate they have access to some of the most powerful magic on Azeroth.

As mentioned before, the eyebeam/meta route for any abilities that require the draconic form animations is one solution to that. But Blizzard could always come up with something else if they want, like just making new animations for those abilities for non-dracthyr. But as I said above, I see dracthyr gaining access to other classes long before we ever see evoker made available to other races, if ever.

Yeah, again this just reeks of the DH 3rd spec or DH more races discussion. I don't see it happening.

[Nightshade711]

No. They were clearly awake and trained before that time, which is why they have an order already in place, and various sections within that order. We see Dracthyr with armor and melee weapons, and clearly the skill to use them. Where's the warrior class? They have full knowledge of the elements via experience dealing with the primals. Where's the Shaman class? They have knowledge of Arcane, Frost, and Fire magic from the flights. Where's the mage class? The Draenei came from a completely different planet and knew various classes. The Pandaren were isolated on a floating turtle and knew multiple classes. The Vulpera were being subjugated, yet they could still be various classes. Why would the Dracthyr need contact with other races to know other classes? They're elite soldiers created by an aspect.

As shown above, that has never stopped other races from entering the game already knowing different classes. Lorewise every race in WoW has their own martial traditions and magical heritages.

Except the Dracthyr were trained specifically to use the dragon magic under command of their creator which the edicts on the starting zone mention.

In the future, Dracthyr that aren’t Evokers can absolutely decide to “pick up an axe and be a great warrior” as Ion had said.
You might say “oh well who wants to play a reject”, but nobody would care because no matter the class you’re playing, you’d still be “the champion” and be on even an playing field with Evokers.

The idea that the Dracthyr need to learn it from other races is nonsense. Especially when out the gate they have access to some of the most powerful magic on Azeroth.

Wouldn’t say it’s “some of the most powerful magic” or else they wouldn’t have gotten wrecked by the primalists which are just shamans lmao.

Yeah, again this just reeks of the DH 3rd spec or DH more races discussion. I don't see it happening.

You might not see it happening but blizzard clearly does or they wouldn’t have said they could become other classes.
And they wouldn’t have made other class animations for the Dracthyr.

[Teriz]

Except the Dracthyr were trained specifically to use the dragon magic under command of their creator which the edicts on the starting zone mention.

In the future, Dracthyr that aren’t Evokers can absolutely decide to “pick up an axe and be a great warrior” as Ion had said.
You might say “oh well who wants to play a reject”, but nobody would care because no matter the class you’re playing, you’d still be “the champion” and be on even an playing field with Evokers.

Again, why wouldn't they simply do that now? Think about it; We already have Dracthyr in armor and carrying weapons. We already have Dracthyr being exposed to elemental powers. We already have Dracthyr with knowledge of Arcane, Fire, and Frost. Why do they need contact with the other Azerothian races to learn something they already should know? Didn't Deathwing create them to be super-soldiers in the first place?

Further, the Dragon Isles aren't exactly a safe place, so if they're going to be warriors, rogues, shaman, whatever, shouldn't they already be these classes?

Ion is blowing smoke up your bum and you're buying it.

[Eosia]

That's a class expansion. We're talking about a race here. Further, the only thing that stopped other races from being DKs was lore. The Dracthyr have clear technical hurdles to overcome, along with the fact that the race was pretty much designed with the Evoker's abilities in mind. You take away the Evoker, and a lot of the stuff that the race has, such as its wings, doesn't make a lot of sense.

And Lore is what is stopping things here too. The Dracthyr were created to be Evokers. The Evokers use Draconic abilities. They have just woken up after a few millennia of slumber. How exactly are Taurens, Humans, High Elves, Night Elves, etc. supposed to learn this stuff if the Dracthyr are not around to teach it and no one knows the Dracthyr even exist right now?

Just like how the lore stopped Night Elf Mages from being a thing... it was illegal in their society until Tyrande decided to allow the Shen'drelar to rejoin Night Elf society and so with the Cataclysm, Night Elf Mages were a thing again for the first time in 10,000 years.

Just wanted to point out a slight correction, you couldn't be a Pandaren DK until Shadowlands, where you start along with the other DKs at the Icecrown Citadel.

Thank you, I totally forgot that the DK expansion did end with the Cata races.

[Teriz]

And Lore is what is stopping things here too. The Dracthyr were created to be Evokers. The Evokers use Draconic abilities. They have just woken up after a few millennia of slumber. How exactly are Taurens, Humans, High Elves, Night Elves, etc. supposed to learn this stuff if the Dracthyr are not around to teach it and no one knows the Dracthyr even exist right now?

I'm pretty sure you need to be a dragon to perform Evoker abilities. Many Evoker abilities literally require the body of a dragon, which other races don't have.

Outside of lore, the fact that other races didn't have draconic bodies is why the Dracthyr were created in the first place. It would be rather odd for Blizzard to create the Dracthyr to facilitate the Evoker class, and then give that class to other races.

Just like how the lore stopped Night Elf Mages from being a thing... it was illegal in their society until Tyrande decided to allow the Shen'drelar to rejoin Night Elf society and so with the Cataclysm, Night Elf Mages were a thing again for the first time in 10,000 years.

And that is PURELY a lore issue. With the Evokers, we're talking lore and mechanics. Dracthyr racials for example are used in the Evoker talents.

[Eosia]

I'm pretty sure you need to be a dragon to perform Evoker abilities. Many Evoker abilities literally require the body of a dragon, which other races don't have.

"Future Us might decide, 'What if the Dracthyr could be other classes as well?'" Day said. "Right now it doesn't make a lot of sense for them to have the opportunity to roll another class because they are kind of just waking up and discovering who they are and what their innate abilities are. As they interact with the world and learn more about Azeroth and the different races and cultures of Azeroth, maybe they'll pick up on some of those other skills. But that's a Future Us thing."

Morgan Day's on record about it being something down the road.

We wanna move to a world where the race of a character is not a limiter to what they can become in World of Warcraft. (…) More of this will come over time, but immediately in 10.0 we’ll make Mages, Priests, and Rogues available to all races.

Holinka's on record about all races being all classes eventually

And that is PURELY a lore issue. With the Evokers, we're talking lore and mechanics. Dracthyr racials for example are used in the Evoker talents.

So? So was the limitation of Paladins only being Humans and Dwarves. Later lore gave it to Draenei with their association with the Na'aru, the High Elves getting it from draining a Na'aru and then later from the restored Sunwell. The Tauren get it literally from the Sun. Zandalari Trolls get it from Rezan, even after his death.

[Varx]

Again, why wouldn't they simply do that now? Think about it; We already have Dracthyr in armor and carrying weapons. We already have Dracthyr being exposed to elemental powers. We already have Dracthyr with knowledge of Arcane, Fire, and Frost. Why do they need contact with the other Azerothian races to learn something they already should know? Didn't Deathwing create them to be super-soldiers in the first place?

Further, the Dragon Isles aren't exactly a safe place, so if they're going to be warriors, rogues, shaman, whatever, shouldn't they already be these classes?

Ion is blowing smoke up your bum and you're buying it.

Teriz, I think the real question is what do you have against more classes for dracthyr. You make it seem like it's somehow a bad thing and that it'll never happen because it shouldn't happen?

Like why???

The potential exists in the fact that not every dracthyr is an evoker.

So like lore wise you expect them to be auto attackers extraordinares forever??

The fact that A LOT of dev time went In to both evokers and dracthyr means that maybe there wasn't enough time to include the others.

But down the line, hell maybe even for the final patch of DF its a real possibility.

Again, what do you have against that? Cuz you're the only one who seems to have a problem with it.

[Elbob]

Well that’s the entire point. The Dracthyr race was created to accommodate the Evoker class. There’s zero reason to expand the Dracthyr to other classes, and there’s zero reason to expand the Evoker to other races. As you pointed out, doing so would require pointless reworks that works better served making the Dracthyr Evoker concept better.

Unfortunately, we’re going to be treated to multiple posters crying for those things for years to come. Hopefully they stay out of the Evoker forum.

no its not, you got the roles flipped in your head on this topic, other classes just wouldn't have this talent choice... because its an evoker talent not a warrior/mage/rogue/whatever class you want talent... I don't think anyone here is expecting evoker to be playable by other races so this is absolutely fine. They could also just remove the talent from evoker and put in something else.

Anyone else loving the raw number of bad teriz takes, I think im going to start saving them. I sure wish I had for all his horrendous tinker takes that he abandoned.

Edit: to sum up some of Teriz's abandoned or dodged arguments here we have
Most players wouldn't play dracthyr (non evoker class)* because transmog and armor is apparently cornerstones of other classes (citation plz)
Dracthyr having issues sheathing weapons on their back is a "mechanical issue" despite many back attachments already hiding these on current classes AND dracthyr using staves that go where again Teriz?
Apparently Evokers having a racial talent point means all dracthyr need to have racial talent points???? they don't Teriz

[Teriz]

Morgan Day's on record about it being something down the road.

Yes, a comment completely contradicted by their own lore and starter zone.

Holinka's on record about all races being all classes eventually

That's not what he said. He said they want to move to a place where race isn't a limiter to what you can become. That doesn't mean all races and all classes. Some classes have far too many art assets to be open to all races. Druids being the first that comes to mind.

So? So was the limitation of Paladins only being Humans and Dwarves. Later lore gave it to Draenei with their association with the Na'aru, the High Elves getting it from draining a Na'aru and then later from the restored Sunwell. The Tauren get it literally from the Sun. Zandalari Trolls get it from Rezan, even after his death.

Again, these are all lore issues, not technical issues. You can't map standard WoW armor to Dracthyr bodies. Dracthyr have huge wings and tails that cause issues with certain weapons and back gear. Those were INTENTIONAL design choices. If Blizzard wanted Dracthyr to be all classes at some point, they wouldn't have designed the model that they did. They would have simply used Drakonoid models that are pretty much Draenei and Tauren in reptile suits. However they didn't do that because they have no intention of ever branching the Dracthyr out from Evokers.

Again, the developers are blowing smoke up your collective bums, and you're believing it.

- - - Updated - - -

no its not, you got the roles flipped in your head on this topic, other classes just wouldn't have this talent choice... because its an evoker talent not a warrior/mage/rogue/whatever class you want talent... I don't think anyone here is expecting evoker to be playable by other races so this is absolutely fine. They could also just remove the talent from evoker and put in something else.

Uh read the thread more carefully, several posters are saying exactly that.

Anyone else loving the raw number of bad teriz takes, I think im going to start saving them. I sure wish I had for all his horrendous tinker takes that he abandoned.

Such as?