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  1. #81
    I am Murloc! KOUNTERPARTS's Avatar
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    I don't get your point here OP. I really don't.


    Everybody is aware of your mentality towards the game and your chosen play style. Why do you think you can make a thread like this and it be received seriously?

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    If I remember it correctly, my older characters didn't have such problem. I.e. my first character in ZM didn't have such problem, while just leveled one did. I'll check it on my current characters.

    And other problem - this thing has short-term effect. For example first 30 mobs don't drop anything at all. Then drop starts to slowly increase. This doesn't really looks like "fair" RNG. More like artificial preprogrammed gate.

    - - - Updated - - -


    I do it on 8th character now. All have the same pattern. This is exact reason, why Blizzard can do it. Because nobody can prove it. Too small sample, yeah. And nobody would ever prove it, if they wouldn't do it so openly and obviously. Great thing, only loss in Wow - is time. But imagine, that the same thing happens in Diablo Immoral. Great, yeah?
    Congratz! 8 characters. Come back when you have hundreds/thousands of datasets to make your statement of RNG not existing being somewhat believable.

    8 out of the tens of thousands people that have killed those mobs.. do you really, actually believe that 8 is a representative number?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrLachyG View Post
    Look he really needs those relics ok so he can get his 246 gear because he refuses to do LFR or M+ or anything group related
    so he blames blizzard for his own imposed limitations? riight, that just proves my point even more. He has no idea what RNG or statistics are.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by 8bithamster View Post
    Congratz! 8 characters. Come back when you have hundreds/thousands of datasets to make your statement of RNG not existing being somewhat believable.

    8 out of the tens of thousands people that have killed those mobs.. do you really, actually believe that 8 is a representative number?
    Given that he works of the incorrect assumption that randomness should be consistent, he'll never get anything useful anyway. He already got the fundamentals wrong, any conclusions are inherently flawed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KOUNTERPARTS View Post
    I don't get your point here OP. I really don't.


    Everybody is aware of your mentality towards the game and your chosen play style. Why do you think you can make a thread like this and it be received seriously?
    As far as i can tell, the OP is trying to prove to the world they're talking about things they don't understand the basics of and are wholly unprepared to make any meaningful statements about.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Given that he works of the incorrect assumption that randomness should be consistent, he'll never get anything useful anyway. He already got the fundamentals wrong, any conclusions are inherently flawed.
    Again. Randomness isn't "Drops, as devs want it wants". Randomness should still follow some laws. Otherwise it isn't randomness. It's preprogrammed pattern. It should follow geometric distribution. Deviation from average should follow binomial distribution. If it doesn't - it's inconsistent, as that means drop rate isn't constant. It changes. And as it changes - then there is some algorithm, that changes it. Do you want to go to casino, where win-loss isn't random, but preprogrammed instead?

  5. #85
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    RNG is RNG, but drop rate should stay consistent. Shouldn't it?
    No, you don't understand randomness if you think something random should be consistent.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    Again. Randomness isn't "Drops, as devs want it wants". Randomness should still follow some laws. Otherwise it isn't randomness. It's preprogrammed pattern. It should follow geometric distribution. Deviation from average should follow binomial distribution. If it doesn't - it's inconsistent, as that means drop rate isn't constant. It changes. And as it changes - then there is some algorithm, that changes it. Do you want to go to casino, where win-loss isn't random, but preprogrammed instead?
    lol no, randomness should follow no laws, a preprogrammed pattern is a pattern, not random. you are literally complaining about random things not being random because they are random and not patterns like you think randomness actually is.

    randomness has no patterns, that is literally the point, patterns may show up, but that is just odds coming from randomness.

    if you flip a coin it has a 50/50 chance to be each side, but that does not mean it will be a pattern of heads, tails, heads, tails, heads, tails.
    of course your odds are that if you flip a coin 100 times it will be 50 heads 50 tails, because it is real randomness, you could get 100 tails, and 0 heads.

    it is random, you need to get some actual statistical studies done, cause holy moly this is just sad.
    the fact you think true randomness should have pre-programmed patterns proves you don't even understand what randomness actually is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    If I remember it correctly, my older characters didn't have such problem. I.e. my first character in ZM didn't have such problem, while just leveled one did. I'll check it on my current characters.

    And other problem - this thing has short-term effect. For example first 30 mobs don't drop anything at all. Then drop starts to slowly increase. This doesn't really looks like "fair" RNG. More like artificial preprogrammed gate.

    - - - Updated - - -


    I do it on 8th character now. All have the same pattern. This is exact reason, why Blizzard can do it. Because nobody can prove it. Too small sample, yeah. And nobody would ever prove it, if they wouldn't do it so openly and obviously. Great thing, only loss in Wow - is time. But imagine, that the same thing happens in Diablo Immoral. Great, yeah?
    You really think your new charecter has a hidden + luck stat?
    You gotta be kidding me this is...

    bro humans are pattern seeking by nature, but this is getting tinfoil hat levels.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    I don't want to discuss it, because I've got sick of this "RNG God don't like you so much, that you get 100 tails in a row every day - it can actually happen, cuz there is 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% chance of it to happen" argument. RNG doesn't mean completely inconsistent, i.e. "Today every mob drops and and tomorrow you get 0 drops". Droprate should still stay consistent. If plus-minus every 2nd monster drops it today - same should happen tomorrow, day after tomorrow, two days after tomorrow. ALWAYS. If droprate changes with time, depends on character, on server, on anything else - it's preprogrammed algorithm, NOT RNG.
    Drop rates do not change depending on the time, the charecter, the server, anything, the droprate is always the same, you are just being crazy and letting the pattern seeking side of your brain go wild and take over your entire skull.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    Streaks can happen. Yeah. But chance of getting streak - is also RNG value and should also stay consistent. Fluctuations between almost 100% today and almost 0% tomorrow? Doesn't look consistent.
    And last response

    There is no fluctuations, it is literally just random.
    You log on one day and get a rare drop, then log on next day and dont and are saying "omfg Random is not random, because obviously the randomness is fluctuating every day and time and server and player!"
    Last edited by FelPlague; 2022-08-09 at 04:47 AM.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    May be I miss something, but sometimes key fragment drop rate seems to be 30-50%. For example on character on server X. But sometimes I kill 30 mobs and get zero drops. For example when I switch to other character on server Y. Sometimes I kill 30 mobs in a row without any key drops, but then they start to drop from every mob. You know. Elites aren't easy to kill solely. They're supposed to be challenging. Killing them for no reward is pointless waste of time. How can you explain it? When such RNG manipulations happen, I really feel that devs are cheating me.
    put it like this,

    if the fragment has a 1/1000 chance of dropping (this is the RNG factor), thats its set figure.

    everytime you kill something, it has a 1/1000 chance of it dropping, thats RNG.

    kill 1,000 mobs, your chance is still 1/1000 every mob you have killed.

    saying things like the chance should go up doesnt work. as no matter how many you kill the chance to get one never fluctuates, its still 1/1000 chance per kill.


    that is how RNG Works, and how it has worked for the last 18 years in wow.

    now what you are saying is that the system is set and accumulates per kill, which is false.
    no item drop rate in the history of any MMORPG that i can recall, has accumilated drop chance increase,
    besides wows supposed shit Bad Luck Protection.
    Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler

    If you are trying to AE tank and a bad dps is attacking the wrong target and dies, we call that justice.

  7. #87
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kikazz View Post
    put it like this,

    if the fragment has a 1/1000 chance of dropping (this is the RNG factor), thats its set figure.

    everytime you kill something, it has a 1/1000 chance of it dropping, thats RNG.

    kill 1,000 mobs, your chance is still 1/1000 every mob you have killed.

    saying things like the chance should go up doesnt work. as no matter how many you kill the chance to get one never fluctuates, its still 1/1000 chance per kill.


    that is how RNG Works, and how it has worked for the last 18 years in wow.

    now what you are saying is that the system is set and accumulates per kill, which is false.
    no item drop rate in the history of any MMORPG that i can recall, has accumilated drop chance increase,
    besides wows supposed shit Bad Luck Protection.
    Thing is he says the drop rate changes randomly based on time, place, server, character, etc.
    His proof?
    one day he got lots of drops
    next day he got none.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    May be I miss something, but sometimes key fragment drop rate seems to be 30-50%. For example on character on server X. But sometimes I kill 30 mobs and get zero drops. For example when I switch to other character on server Y. Sometimes I kill 30 mobs in a row without any key drops, but then they start to drop from every mob. You know. Elites aren't easy to kill solely. They're supposed to be challenging. Killing them for no reward is pointless waste of time. How can you explain it? When such RNG manipulations happen, I really feel that devs are cheating me.
    Elites have a higher drop rate. If you want to loot it every day, farm them from the world quest that gives you the guys to use to fight and only kill elites. I've been farming for the pattern for the mount from the huge guys there when it pops and I feel like doing it. Honestly looting it every day isn't that worth it except on alts, but being that the non elites have a small drop rate you'll see higher variance.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    No, you don't understand randomness if you think something random should be consistant.

    - - - Updated - - -



    lol no, randomness should follow no laws, a preprogrammed pattern is a pattern, not random. you are literally complaining about random things not being random because they are random and not patterns like you think randomness actually is.

    randomness has no patterns, that is literally the point, patterns may show up, but that is just odds coming from randomness.

    if you flip a coin it has a 50/50 chance to be each side, but that does not mean it will be a pattern of heads, tails, heads, tails, heads, tails.
    of course your odds are that if you flip a coin 100 times it will be 50 heads 50 tails, because it is real randomness, you could get 100 tails, and 0 heads.

    it is random, you need to get some actual statistical studies done, cause holy moly this is just sad.
    the fact you think true randomness should have pre-programmed patterns proves you don't even understand what randomness actually is.

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    LOL WHAT? you really think your new charecter has a hidden + luck stat?
    You gotta be kidding me this is... this is hilarious.

    bro humans are pattern seeking by nature, but this is getting tinfoil hat levels.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Drop rates do not change depending on the time, the charecter, the server, anything, the droprate is always the same, you are just being crazy and letting the pattern seeking side of your brain go wild and take over your entire skull.

    - - - Updated - - -



    And last response

    There is no fluctuations, it is literally just random.
    You log on one day and get a rare drop, then log on next day and dont and are saying "omfg Random is not random, because obviously the randomness is fluctuating every day and time and server and player!"
    Random distributions don't predict, what will happen. But they give you chances. And what they say - is that you CAN'T HAVE HIGH CHANCES OF 50/50 DROPS AND NO DROPS AT ALL AT THE SAME TIME. One thing should happen often. Other thing should happen rarely. If both happen often enough - RNG is inconsistent, as droprate changes.

    As always. If you don't believe, that random distributions are real - you can always simulate them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ohwell View Post
    Elites have a higher drop rate. If you want to loot it every day, farm them from the world quest that gives you the guys to use to fight and only kill elites. I've been farming for the pattern for the mount from the huge guys there when it pops and I feel like doing it. Honestly looting it every day isn't that worth it except on alts, but being that the non elites have a small drop rate you'll see higher variance.
    I kill elites. Thx God it's not overtuned Korthia. 226 gear + flying are enough to kill elites solo. Different elites. Both mawsworn and automas.

    P.S. Now after Blizzard have said, why they will give badges for quest lines in WotLK classic, I realized one thing. I know why they give free legendary for completing 9.2 campaign. Because it's really good idea to stay forever at 2nd unskippable chapter. Yeah, that quest with Bolvar, that doesn't end automatically when completed and can be kept forever.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Enter Name Here View Post
    if you are talking about sandworn key fragments:

    i just went to wowhead to check if in the comments there are people with a similar experience. turns out there are two comments that claim the drop rate would drop significantly after completing "the WQ" (which one isn't mentioned)

    maybe that's what you are experiencing
    There are two world quests that allow you to kill lots of mobs in a short time. The one with rana and the automa and the one with the worm. The drop rate seems to still be the same but after finishing the quest your time to kill goes up because you lose the wq mobs that helped you. Therefore it seems like you got like 30 fragments in 10 minutes and maybe another 20 in the next 50 minutes. But it isn't because the droprate changed but without the mobs helping you, you take 2-3 times longer to kill the elites.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post

    P.S. Now after Blizzard have said, why they will give badges for quest lines in WotLK classic, I realized one thing. I know why they give free legendary for completing 9.2 campaign. Because it's really good idea to stay forever at 2nd unskippable chapter. Yeah, that quest with Bolvar, that doesn't end automatically when completed and can be kept forever.
    It's only a good idea for your super specific use case. For pretty much every normal player what you're doing is a complete and total waste of time.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by fatgunn View Post
    It's only a good idea for your super specific use case. For pretty much every normal player what you're doing is a complete and total waste of time.
    It's subjective. Waste for you, not waste for me. They exist for reason. Those relics - are only source of tier sets for casual players, who don't do M+/raids/rated PVP.

  13. #93
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    RNG is RNG, but drop rate should stay consistent. Shouldn't it?
    No, not really. Random is random. That includes streaks of bad luck and good luck.

    I play a mobile golf game. You can improve your clubs various ways (without spending money if you're patient). The top level of club is called a Meteor. I went about nine months and never got a drop on one. Then I got three of them in two days. It happens.

    It's not a conspiracy. If you chafe at having to play the game and feel that the developers are targeting you to keep you around longer you can show them. Quit. Then don't come back. Put the game behind you. Ask the admins here to delete your account. Seriously, I've been reading your "WoWIsDead64" complaints for years now. The torture you put yourself through or attempts to get some attention here are bad for you. Don't do things that are bad for you. Getting people's attention here isn't worth it. Neither is playing a game for years that you have said numerous times you hate.
    Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2022-08-09 at 05:44 AM.
    Two rules for living: "Don't go around hurting each other. Try to understand things." — William Least Heat-Moon (Blue Highways)

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    It's subjective. Waste for you, not waste for me. They exist for reason. Those relics - are only source of tier sets for casual players, who don't do M+/raids/rated PVP.
    So... Only you?

  15. #95
    Scarab Lord Polybius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kikazz View Post
    put it like this,

    if the fragment has a 1/1000 chance of dropping (this is the RNG factor), thats its set figure.

    everytime you kill something, it has a 1/1000 chance of it dropping, thats RNG.

    kill 1,000 mobs, your chance is still 1/1000 every mob you have killed.

    saying things like the chance should go up doesnt work. as no matter how many you kill the chance to get one never fluctuates, its still 1/1000 chance per kill.


    that is how RNG Works, and how it has worked for the last 18 years in wow.

    now what you are saying is that the system is set and accumulates per kill, which is false.
    no item drop rate in the history of any MMORPG that i can recall, has accumilated drop chance increase,
    besides wows supposed shit Bad Luck Protection.
    What this user said. Every chance is independent.

  16. #96
    Here is graph, that illustrates, what I try to say:

    50% droprate means almost zero chance to get 0 items after 30 kills.
    3% droprate means almost zero chance to get 15 items after 30 kills.

    What does it mean, when both situations are 50/50? It's called inconsistent RNG. It CAN'T HAPPEN, no matter how hard you try to say, that "RNG is RNG".

  17. #97
    A few hundred mobs killed is not an adequate sample size to make any statistical assumptions. Case closed. /thread? nevermind, it's mmoc...

  18. #98
    cant believe y'all are still arguing with a #monthsbehind dude with no grasp of reality

    anyway its not like there's anything better for him to do

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Arainie View Post
    A few hundred mobs killed is not an adequate sample size to make any statistical assumptions. Case closed. /thread? nevermind, it's mmoc...
    lol basically

  19. #99
    Legendary!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arainie View Post
    A few hundred mobs killed is not an adequate sample size to make any statistical assumptions. Case closed. /thread? nevermind, it's mmoc...
    I mean if mmoc closed every misinformed, ridiculous and blatantly false threads we wouldn’t have many left lol

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Arainie View Post
    A few hundred mobs killed is not an adequate sample size to make any statistical assumptions. Case closed. /thread? nevermind, it's mmoc...
    Long term droprate isn't good measure. Because million no drops and million drops is also valid way to achieve 50% droprate in a long term. But it's not RNG. It's pattern. It can happen once in 2^2000000. My calculator refuses to deal with such big numbers.

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