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  1. #1

    ZM inconsistent RNG?

    May be I miss something, but sometimes key fragment drop rate seems to be 30-50%. For example on character on server X. But sometimes I kill 30 mobs and get zero drops. For example when I switch to other character on server Y. Sometimes I kill 30 mobs in a row without any key drops, but then they start to drop from every mob. You know. Elites aren't easy to kill solely. They're supposed to be challenging. Killing them for no reward is pointless waste of time. How can you explain it? When such RNG manipulations happen, I really feel that devs are cheating me.

    I don't care about Wow 11.0, if it's not solo-MMO. No half-measures - just perfect xpack.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    May be I miss something, but sometimes key fragment drop rate seems to be 30-50%. For example on character on server X. But sometimes I kill 30 mobs and get zero drops. For example when I switch to other character on server Y. Sometimes I kill 30 mobs in a row without any key drops, but then they start to drop from every mob. You know. Elites aren't easy to kill solely. They're supposed to be challenging. Killing them for no reward is pointless waste of time. How can you explain it? When such RNG manipulations happen, I really feel that devs are cheating me.
    Did you run out of other people's threads to post bad takes in and decide to make a bad take into a whole thread instead?

    OT: RNG is RNG. End story.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    May be I miss something, but sometimes key fragment drop rate seems to be 30-50%. For example on character on server X. But sometimes I kill 30 mobs and get zero drops. For example when I switch to other character on server Y. Sometimes I kill 30 mobs in a row without any key drops, but then they start to drop from every mob. You know. Elites aren't easy to kill solely. They're supposed to be challenging. Killing them for no reward is pointless waste of time. How can you explain it? When such RNG manipulations happen, I really feel that devs are cheating me.
    Isn't that how RNG is meant to behave? It isn't going to be a pattern, so of course, you are never going to experience a consistent pattern within X amount of kills.
    FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Nzx View Post
    Did you run out of other people's threads to post bad takes in and decide to make a bad take into a whole thread instead?

    OT: RNG is RNG. End story.
    RNG is RNG, but drop rate should stay consistent. Shouldn't it? When it isn't - it isn't RNG. It's preprogrammed "smart" loot manipulation.

    It's one of reasons, why I hate current game. Devs are exploiting several mechanics to trick me into playing more, I can't do anything about it and this powerlessness makes me angry.

    Unfortunately opening sand chest - is only important daily content in ZM, as class set transmog - is only viable reward there in a long term. It's mandatory daily routine for me. I don't want it to be artificially stretched. Because I do it solo. It's hard enough for me already. I don't need it to be artificially made even more harder.

    I don't care about Wow 11.0, if it's not solo-MMO. No half-measures - just perfect xpack.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    RNG is RNG, but drop rate should stay consistent. Shouldn't it? When it isn't - it isn't RNG. It's preprogrammed "smart" loot manipulation.

    It's one of reasons, why I hate current game. Devs are exploiting several mechanics to trick me into playing more, I can't do anything about it and this powerlessness makes me angry.

    Unfortunately opening sand chest - is only important daily content in ZM, as class set transmog - is only viable reward there in a long term. It's mandatory daily routine for me. I don't want it to be artificially stretched. Because I do it solo. It's hard enough for me already. I don't need it to be artificially made even more harder.
    I said elsewhere that I thought you were trolling for the longest time and I've just recently realized you're actually completely delusional. You're totally right, man. The guaranteed way to become a millionaire is to buy 302,575,350 Mega Millions tickets, because you're guaranteed to win. If you don't, it's not RNG, it's just the game developers out to get you with their "smart loot manipulation".

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    RNG is RNG, but drop rate should stay consistent. Shouldn't it? When it isn't - it isn't RNG. It's preprogrammed "smart" loot manipulation.

    It's one of reasons, why I hate current game. Devs are exploiting several mechanics to trick me into playing more, I can't do anything about it and this powerlessness makes me angry.

    Unfortunately opening sand chest - is only important daily content in ZM, as class set transmog - is only viable reward there in a long term. It's mandatory daily routine for me. I don't want it to be artificially stretched. Because I do it solo. It's hard enough for me already. I don't need it to be artificially made even more harder.
    Random isn't random because it's random? Sounds like if you hate the game, you really should be playing something else. If RNG isn't suppose to be random, then why did I get 2 Ashes of Alar in almost concecutive runs 10 years ago?

  7. #7
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    RNG is by definition inconsistent.
    It's literally random.

    If it wasn't it wouldn't be RNG.


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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    RNG is RNG, but drop rate should stay consistent. Shouldn't it? When it isn't - it isn't RNG.
    Yes, it is. If things are random, you WILL have good streaks and bad streaks. Random does NOT mean consistent. In the long run the streaks "cancel" each other out and you'll get the real drop rate, if the sample size is big enough, but killing a few hundred elites is a very very small sample size, and you're expected to have long streaks of no drop.

    /edit: Watch this, maybe you'll understand better: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tP-Ipsat90c

  9. #9
    So today I learned that RNG isn't random at all. Who knew!?

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Nzx View Post
    I said elsewhere that I thought you were trolling for the longest time and I've just recently realized you're actually completely delusional. You're totally right, man. The guaranteed way to become a millionaire is to buy 302,575,350 Mega Millions tickets, because you're guaranteed to win. If you don't, it's not RNG, it's just the game developers out to get you with their "smart loot manipulation".
    I don't want to discuss it, because I've got sick of this "RNG God don't like you so much, that you get 100 tails in a row every day - it can actually happen, cuz there is 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% chance of it to happen" argument. RNG doesn't mean completely inconsistent, i.e. "Today every mob drops and and tomorrow you get 0 drops". Droprate should still stay consistent. If plus-minus every 2nd monster drops it today - same should happen tomorrow, day after tomorrow, two days after tomorrow. ALWAYS. If droprate changes with time, depends on character, on server, on anything else - it's preprogrammed algorithm, NOT RNG.

    I don't care about Wow 11.0, if it's not solo-MMO. No half-measures - just perfect xpack.

  11. #11
    The important words in your rant: seems to be.

    It's rng, and your personal view of the drop rate is biased because you are irrational. There is no loot manipulation, but because you want to believe so, your belief of the drop rate becomes biased.
    Last edited by facefist; 2022-08-08 at 08:31 AM.

  12. #12
    Op claims he suffers from rng being rng. Then says rng is not rng without providing any evidence.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    I don't want to discuss it, because I've got sick of this "RNG God don't like you so much, that you get 100 tails in a row every day - it can actually happen, cuz there is 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% chance of it to happen" argument. RNG doesn't mean completely inconsistent, i.e. "Today every mob drops and and tomorrow you get 0 drops". Droprate should still stay consistent. If plus-minus every 2nd monster drops it today - same should happen tomorrow, day after tomorrow, two days after tomorrow. ALWAYS. If droprate changes with time, depends on character, on server, on anything else - it's preprogrammed algorithm, NOT RNG.

    Please provide statistical evidence that rng changes per character and is being manipulated. 1 account is not evidence by the way.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    I don't want to discuss it, because I've got sick of this "RNG God don't like you so much, that you get 100 tails in a row every day - it can actually happen, cuz there is 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% chance of it to happen" argument. RNG doesn't mean completely inconsistent, i.e. "Today every mob drops and and tomorrow you get 0 drops". Droprate should still stay consistent. If plus-minus every 2nd monster drops it today - same should happen tomorrow, day after tomorrow, two days after tomorrow. ALWAYS. If droprate changes with time, depends on character, on server, on anything else - it's preprogrammed algorithm, NOT RNG.
    you've literally defined the complete opposite of RNG. are you trolling or do you actually not understand what RNG means? RNG and loot drop consistency are NOT THE SAME THING. having something drop every 2-3 mobs is NOT RNG

  14. #14
    RNG can definitely be manipulated, but the essence of chance is that there are no guarantees.

    In example:
    There is nothing that makes it impossible for a completely flawless coin tossing experiment to infinitely fall on just one side, however improbable that may be.

    But our pattern-seeking brain finds this hard to comprehend since it is vital to our survival to spot any pattern that may be there.

    It's stuff like this that makes us so vulnerable to gambling, far more so than being bad at math or logic.


    Returning to the topic:
    Just some odd instances of rng are not enough to convincingly claim that the values are being manipulated.
    It's far from impossible, but you need something more to make it believable (mind you i am not saying you can actually find or reach that "something more", even if it were to exist).
    Last edited by loras; 2022-08-08 at 08:39 AM.
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    Droprate should still stay consistent. If plus-minus every 2nd monster drops it today - same should happen tomorrow, day after tomorrow, two days after tomorrow. ALWAYS. If droprate changes with time, depends on character, on server, on anything else - it's preprogrammed algorithm, NOT RNG.
    And that's where you're wrong. If the droprate is 50%, you will still have runs of many mobs without a drop. It does NOT mean every second mob will drop a fragment.

    What you want is some sort of uniform distribution of drops, ie. some sort of bad luck protection. While that's legitimate that someone would want that, it's not random. Random is the opposite of that.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by MrLachyG View Post
    you've literally defined the complete opposite of RNG. are you trolling or do you actually not understand what RNG means? RNG and loot drop consistency are NOT THE SAME THING. having something drop every 2-3 mobs is NOT RNG
    Streaks can happen. Yeah. But chance of getting streak - is also RNG value and should also stay consistent. Fluctuations between almost 100% today and almost 0% tomorrow? Doesn't look consistent.

    I don't care about Wow 11.0, if it's not solo-MMO. No half-measures - just perfect xpack.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    Streaks can happen. Yeah. But chance of getting streak - is also RNG value and should also stay consistent. Fluctuations between almost 100% today and almost 0% tomorrow? Doesn't look consistent.
    2 days is not enough of a sample size. Not by a long shot.

  18. #18
    if you are talking about sandworn key fragments:

    i just went to wowhead to check if in the comments there are people with a similar experience. turns out there are two comments that claim the drop rate would drop significantly after completing "the WQ" (which one isn't mentioned)

    maybe that's what you are experiencing
    No matter how relevant the post, I will stop reading after 'should of'.

  19. #19
    I personally agree that the key fragments are on some kind of strange RNG. I too sometimes get 6-8 key fragments when aoeing a group of ten mobs for the quest on one char, and on the char I actually wanted the sandstone relics I farm for 30 minutes and don't get a single drop.

    It's very clear that this is not some RNG issue, but that there is some (wanted or unwanted) special behaviour for those fragments, my assumption is that they actually have a very low drop rate, but they added a bad luck protection. But without looking at the server code we can only speculate.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Enter Name Here View Post
    if you are talking about sandworn key fragments:

    i just went to wowhead to check if in the comments there are people with a similar experience. turns out there are two comments that claim the drop rate would drop significantly after completing "the WQ" (which one isn't mentioned)

    maybe that's what you are experiencing
    My initial assumption was - drop rate is intentionally decreased, when some WQ in north area is active, because it makes things easier and Blizzard don't want players to exploit it. But RNG's behaviour is way too inconsistent. If it would depend on WQ, it wouldn't be different on different characters.

    I don't care about Wow 11.0, if it's not solo-MMO. No half-measures - just perfect xpack.

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