1. #1

    Why is DF talent calculator messed up for Holy Paladin?

    Is something I've been wondering.

    https://www.wowhead.com/beta/talent-calc/paladin/holy

  2. #2
    The Unstoppable Force
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    Something something alpha

    Amazing sig, done by mighty Lokann

  3. #3
    if you bothered to read you'd see the holy tree is currently NYI cause you know alpha

    https://www.wowhead.com/news/paladin...culator-328003

    Our Dragonflight Talent Calculator now supports Retribution and Protection Paladins! Check out the new talents coming with Dragonflight. We also have an early look at Holy Paladin talents, although the calculator UI is unfinished on Blizzard's end.

  4. #4
    I cannot be the only Paladin main who is curious why no new information has come after indicating Holy would be coming soon.

  5. #5
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    And here they are. I think a lot of people would've been happier to have been left in the dark.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalisandra View Post
    And here they are. I think a lot of people would've been happier to have been left in the dark.
    I think that is the general consensus with every talent tree that has come out. There is work and improvement needed. I don't think the holy tree is bad, but it needs some talent rearrangement. I made a build where you don't take anything down the center simply because you can.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Callsignecho View Post
    I think that is the general consensus with every talent tree that has come out. There is work and improvement needed. I don't think the holy tree is bad, but it needs some talent rearrangement. I made a build where you don't take anything down the center simply because you can.
    The reception of the Warrior, Shaman, and at least some of the Rogue trees was pretty positive. The Paladin trees have not had that same reception.

    As for the Holy Tree they've shown us, it needs a lot of talent rearrangement, at the very minimum.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Callsignecho View Post
    I think that is the general consensus with every talent tree that has come out. There is work and improvement needed. I don't think the holy tree is bad, but it needs some talent rearrangement. I made a build where you don't take anything down the center simply because you can.
    Sorry but do you even play holy paladin?

    Having to run into melee for holy power then hard casting sounds cringe. Secondly, It makes no sense that Radiant Onslaught and Crusader’s Might are on the left side of the tree when the other melee style talents are all on the right side. So you are forced to take talents buffing spells you won’t cast if you play melee style?

    The NERF to beacon healing from 50% to 30% and then the removal of judgement generating HolyPower...

    Blessing of the Seasons... Seriously? Also positioning of barrier of faith behind Glimmer and missing Shock Barrier?

    Divine toll without ringing clarity is weak, it's actually the nerfed version we are getting form shadowlands CN patch
    .

    The abundance of talents to buff holy light/FOL will be a death kneel for holy paladins on PVP, imagine trying to hard cast in arena or even BG for instance.

    Lack of mobility, is an issue that blizzard just doesn't understand or choose to address. Not one paladin likes the way Divine Steed works in game and blizzard forces paladins to accept this stupid ability, expansion after expansion..

    For those who don't know what I'm referring to, here is the relevant developer post:

    Long Arm of the Law

    Developer’s note:
    We recognize that movement is fun and feels good when attached to short cooldown buttons. That said, our goal for Retribution Paladin is to keep their strengths in removing things that hinder their mobility, or to charge into battle on their Divine Steed, not to give them a short duration burst of movement on a very short cooldown.


    One the major issues for paladins in past and present expansions has been mobility and gap closure, taking away long arm of the law will just render Paladin mobility a meme in Dragonland.

    And let's not talk about consecration:

    The developers seem so bankrupt in imagination and innovation that they have sunk half our tree into a static, ground drop, non interactive, aoe dot with an animation comparable to a horse having whizzed on cobble stone.

    Oh how exciting and fun as everything stands still for us.

    Who ever designed our trees has never played a paladin in any expansion, let alone multiple. It would be a safe bet that they just barely made it out of Exiles Reach.

  9. #9
    mmmm ok they put it up. Meh. Still doesn't make me want to play. I'll be back for Cata classic I suppose.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalisandra View Post
    The reception of the Warrior, Shaman, and at least some of the Rogue trees was pretty positive. The Paladin trees have not had that same reception.
    Prot Warrior was the great reception, Fury and Arms needed some improvements. Shaman and Rogue were decent overall. Paladin as a whole definitely needs some work. It feels a little lackluster overall compared to other trees we have seen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Desiotaku View Post
    Who ever designed our trees has never played a paladin in any expansion, let alone multiple. It would be a safe bet that they just barely made it out of Exiles Reach.
    Slow down there buddy. You seem to be worried about a first iteration of a talent tree that will go through multiple changes and improvements.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Callsignecho View Post
    Prot Warrior was the great reception, Fury and Arms needed some improvements. Shaman and Rogue were decent overall. Paladin as a whole definitely needs some work. It feels a little lackluster overall compared to other trees we have seen.
    It's a lot lackluster, especially compared to trees that came earlier.

    Some of the Arms and Shaman talents need moving around a bit, but the trees are overall already pretty solid. That is not how people see the Paladin trees. Players aren't asking for a few talents to have their places swapped. They're asking for many to be replaced, and a lot of others to be consolidated from two or four points in something to 1-2 points, as well as having talents moved about, etc. Players are also unhappy about the class design as a whole, in a way that Warrior, Shaman, and Rogue players aren't.

    That's a qualitative difference in what the players are unhappy about and how unhappy they are.
    Slow down there buddy. You seem to be worried about a first iteration of a talent tree that will go through multiple changes and improvements.
    Historically they are right to be. "There's plenty of time" is said and nothing happens, and then suddenly it's "there's no more time for major changes", and either needed changes aren't made or last-minute knee-jerk changes are made that are under-tested and don't work out. That's the standard pattern for Paladin design.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalisandra View Post
    It's a lot lackluster, especially compared to trees that came earlier.

    Some of the Arms and Shaman talents need moving around a bit, but the trees are overall already pretty solid. That is not how people see the Paladin trees. Players aren't asking for a few talents to have their places swapped. They're asking for many to be replaced, and a lot of others to be consolidated from two or four points in something to 1-2 points, as well as having talents moved about, etc. Players are also unhappy about the class design as a whole, in a way that Warrior, Shaman, and Rogue players aren't.

    That's a qualitative difference in what the players are unhappy about and how unhappy they are.

    Historically they are right to be. "There's plenty of time" is said and nothing happens, and then suddenly it's "there's no more time for major changes", and either needed changes aren't made or last-minute knee-jerk changes are made that are under-tested and don't work out. That's the standard pattern for Paladin design.
    I believe the word everyone in this thread is looking for is "boring", and I can definitely agree to that. Other classes got a lot of flashly stuff, able to go after multiple legendary effects, some new things and some things that got crossed over specs of the same class. The paladin trees are the same old stuff without anything new, exciting or surprising in a good way, which is why people are in an uproar. The same old stuff is boring.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Callsignecho View Post
    I believe the word everyone in this thread is looking for is "boring", and I can definitely agree to that. Other classes got a lot of flashly stuff, able to go after multiple legendary effects, some new things and some things that got crossed over specs of the same class. The paladin trees are the same old stuff without anything new, exciting or surprising in a good way, which is why people are in an uproar. The same old stuff is boring.
    While that's part of the story, it's not all of it. Warriors got a whole range of old and new stuff that improves their mobility, sustain/survivability, and control. Paladins got none of that. Prot Paladins are staring down a nerf to their Holy Power generation that will make their rotation slower and reduce active mitigation uptime and if there's compensation for that it hasn't hit the alpha yet, so right now they're looking to be pretty squishy. Retribution is looking at an attempt to push Consecration, which unless fights become a whole lot more static than they've been for years won't be useable unless it's damage is up around that of the current Earthquake (which is being nerfed for DF, partly because of its limitations). In some ways Holy is the best off, in that it's mostly about talent placement and tuning, though it too is losing things and not seeing a whole lot of interesting replacements (and is still stuck with a Mastery that blows).

    So it's not just boring, it's going backwards when many other classes are going forwards.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by swineflu View Post
    Its not messed up, the dev is just either incompetent or toxic and a troll.

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