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  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by Somic View Post
    Because you know you were wrong and you’re not acknowledging it.
    Well no, it's because you read my posts in bad faith, write like a grumpy teenager and insult forum members. It's old hat and doesn't merit attention. This also seems to be your MO.

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by Bianconeri View Post
    Well no, it's because you read my posts in bad faith, write like a grumpy teenager and insult forum members. It's old hat and doesn't merit attention. This also seems to be your MO.
    I didn’t read them in bad faith at all. I specifically asked you to elaborate on your points and you did, then I explained why they made no sense. Your only example involved pre-requisite quests which has absolutely nothing to do with forming a group or RDF. I explained that to you and you then commented on HOW I said instead of what I said.

    So one more time, how does RDF disincentivize you going out in the world?

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by Somic View Post
    I didn’t read them in bad faith at all. I specifically asked you to elaborate on your points and you did, then I explained why they made no sense. Your only example involved pre-requisite quests which has absolutely nothing to do with forming a group or RDF. I explained that to you and you then commented on HOW I said instead of what I said.

    So one more time, how does RDF disincentivize you going out in the world?
    Simply: because you teleport directly to the dungeon. Where before you had to have at least a few players meet at the summoning stone.

  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by Somic View Post
    So one more time, how does RDF disincentivize you going out in the world?
    Lol dude this is the weirdest hill to die on. Gee, I wonder how the automated dungeon finder tool can present a more attractive alternative to going out in the world.

  5. #185
    Herald of the Titans Tuor's Avatar
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    One thing i realised recently on TBC servers. Toxic players are always going to keep being toxic, so bring back the damn feature, the comunity has been damaged long ago.

  6. #186

    Red face

    Quote Originally Posted by zugg zugg View Post
    Dungeons are literally the lowest form of social interaction in WoW. Dungeons require very little if any communication to kill bosses. Most people in dungeons are looking for a quick in and out.
    Absolutely disagree. *Especially* for new players. Many of the classic population are new to the game, myself being one of them. During my leveling of 3 toons and the grinding of dungeons, I was communicating with my 5 man team. When we wiped, we talked about how to avoid wiping, boss strat, even high concentration of mobs required comms. This rings true through Classic and BC. Whether I was tanking, DPS as Warrior or Shaman, I was constantly talking, listening, learning, and making friends.

    Retail? You are absolutely right. I played retail for just a few hours and never played it again. I queued for Dead Mines, spawned in with people that I didn't say a single word to. We ran straight through it. I could have been playing with 4 bots and had not known. It was a running simulator. I played this after my experience in Dead Mines in classic and I laughed to myself at how bad that experience was.

  7. #187
    Void Lord Doctor Amadeus's Avatar
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    It didn't. It just took away the ability for very abusive people and toxic zeros to force or trick other people into doing content that only selfishly benefited them. Been in pretty decent guilds through the time I played, however the best was the last one which my toon is still in. Nobody or any group that was good ever had a problem with RDF or RGF
    #ANTIFA "Intellect alone is useless in a fight...you can't even break a rule, how can you be expected to break bone" Khan Singh

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by Bianconeri View Post
    Lol dude this is the weirdest hill to die on. Gee, I wonder how the automated dungeon finder tool can present a more attractive alternative to going out in the world.
    Yea you keep making it seem so obvious but you haven’t given me one example. So yeah tell me how, especially at end level.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Linkedblade View Post
    Simply: because you teleport directly to the dungeon. Where before you had to have at least a few players meet at the summoning stone.
    Wow someone finally with an actual answer so we can have a discussion.

    Okay now would you consider having 2 people fly to a stone and wait to be summoned meaningful gameplay?

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by Somic View Post


    Wow someone finally with an actual answer so we can have a discussion.

    Okay now would you consider having 2 people fly to a stone and wait to be summoned meaningful gameplay?
    Well, at one point the appeal was to cause a shitshow for pvp, which that was only on pvp/rppvp servers. Yeah, i'd say it was meaningful. Because in the time it took for the group to get there and for the summons to go out you'd have time to communicate in group and weed out any problems like afk'ers, etc.

    The other half of rdf was the cross-server grouping. Where it was inconsequential how you acted in the dungeon, because chances were you'd never see the person again. Compare that to server only groups before, where you could block players or have other contact with players and know them by reputation.

  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by Linkedblade View Post
    Well, at one point the appeal was to cause a shitshow for pvp, which that was only on pvp/rppvp servers. Yeah, i'd say it was meaningful. Because in the time it took for the group to get there and for the summons to go out you'd have time to communicate in group and weed out any problems like afk'ers, etc.
    Now tell me what server this is going to be meaningful on besides grob. I will wait. There will be 0 shitshow pvp scenes at the stone in wotlk unless you're the one poor soul playing alliance on a 90/10 horde server and you will be camped.

    Because in the time it took for the group to get there and for the summons to go out you'd have time to communicate in group and weed out any problems like afk'ers, etc.
    Yeah the afkers happen because people waited so long to get into the group. When you are in RDF when you click ok you are ready to go so theres no one to be afk because that had to click a button.

    The other half of rdf was the cross-server grouping. Where it was inconsequential how you acted in the dungeon, because chances were you'd never see the person again. Compare that to server only groups before, where you could block players or have other contact with players and know them by reputation.
    There was no repercussions for acting like an asshole on these mega servers anyway. Of all my time on tbc and classic I have ran into so many assholes on the server and I have never once heard anyone post or complain about someone acting like a dick in a level 16 deadmines group or heard anyone that actually cared. Assholes will be assholes whether they are on your server or not. At the very least with RDF you have the privilege of just kicking them out and then having a new person instantly replace them instead of waiting in LFG chat for another hour.

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefall View Post
    You're correct on everything you're saying OP but you see, allowing casual players to get gear makes the gatekeepers feel less special. They need master looters to keep the rabble in their place, so by making it non-queued content they can control it more. WoW classic is being made for the elitists to continue their gatekeeping fantasies, we had proof of this right away and it keeps being confirmed time and time again.

    Anyway what ruined WoW social interaction is what you're saying. Dungeons became about "get in and leave" because the reward systems stopped encouraging running a dungeon once, maybe twice, and instead encouraging spamming dungeons constantly when you hit max level. They gamified the system and people obviously followed suit.
    Yeah, if hardcore crayon enjoyers can get Dungeon gear, it invalidates my entire reason for playing. I must gatekeep all the single digit IQ gamers out of DUNGEONS... what a take, touch grass son.

    has nothing to do with the fact that RDF is just super overpowered in the term of convenience and people might prefer playing with their FRIENDS and would rather prio that over the convenience, no, it is the hardcore gamers who are just trying to bring the average ass snifer down and gatekeep them out of DUNGEON GEAR.

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by Tumile View Post
    Yeah, if hardcore crayon enjoyers can get Dungeon gear, it invalidates my entire reason for playing. I must gatekeep all the single digit IQ gamers out of DUNGEONS... what a take, touch grass son.

    has nothing to do with the fact that RDF is just super overpowered in the term of convenience and people might prefer playing with their FRIENDS and would rather prio that over the convenience, no, it is the hardcore gamers who are just trying to bring the average ass snifer down and gatekeep them out of DUNGEON GEAR.
    You know you can still que with friends even with rdf active correct?

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by Dadwen View Post
    Guessing you never really played old wow
    Started playing halfway through TBC in 2007. Seethe harder.

    I really have to wonder what it is with people and this bizarre thing where people instantly assume you "didn't play" just because your experience was different than theirs.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Somic View Post
    Okay now would you consider having 2 people fly to a stone and wait to be summoned meaningful gameplay?
    "well, summon stones exist, so let's just allow everyone to instant teleport to any dungeon they want"

    okay, mage portals exist so let's allow everyone to instant teleport to all major cities from anywhere

    see how dumb that is? By allowing everyone to instant teleport all over the place, you're removing the social interaction of having to find a mage and get him to open a portal for you. And likewise, LFD removes the travel time of having to fly to the dungeon or have other people summon you there.

    What's even the point of having a game world if you just teleport around everywhere? Retail having instant teleports all over the place is what makes the world feel so tiny. There's no travel time.
    Last edited by anon5123; 2022-08-20 at 02:22 AM.

  14. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    Started playing halfway through TBC in 2007. Seethe harder.

    I really have to wonder what it is with people and this bizarre thing where people instantly assume you "didn't play" just because your experience was different than theirs.
    Well I started a week after launch and anyone that was there would have known there were assholes before RDF was added, an being I played long before it, and long after RDF was added and didn't see any different in the number of assholes it either means A: you didn't play B: you attracted them. talking with just about everyone I played with most of the RDF runs were just people that wanted to get in run the dungeon and go on to the next thing (not really any difference then before other than didn't have wait to get the people there to summon) with the least amount of drama as possible, so not only does your experience differ from mine and not only people I played with, reading the forums most seem to say they had the same experience too.

    (I didn't see uptick in the assholes till LRF (I liked LFR for my alts) but most of the time it was some over geared raider trying to grief the group jealous I guess people got to see content that they used to keep only for themselves).
    Last edited by Dadwen; 2022-08-23 at 01:34 PM.

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by Dadwen View Post
    Well I started a week after launch and anyone that was there would have known there were assholes before RDF was added, an being I played long before it, and long after RDF was added and didn't see any different in the number of assholes it either means A: you didn't play B: you attracted them.
    "my experience is valid, your experience is wrong and you obviously didn't play the game at all"

    nice narcissism

  16. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    "well, summon stones exist, so let's just allow everyone to instant teleport to any dungeon they want"

    okay, mage portals exist so let's allow everyone to instant teleport to all major cities from anywhere

    see how dumb that is? By allowing everyone to instant teleport all over the place, you're removing the social interaction of having to find a mage and get him to open a portal for you. And likewise, LFD removes the travel time of having to fly to the dungeon or have other people summon you there.

    What's even the point of having a game world if you just teleport around everywhere? Retail having instant teleports all over the place is what makes the world feel so tiny. There's no travel time.
    This doesn’t answer my question at all, if anything I’m going to respond with your statement with the exact quote you just put in your comment.

    Tell me what is removed or ruined by allowing you to teleport to the dungeon. Is traveling to the dungeon, which could take ten minutes, a meaningful part of the game? Honestly I know you probably have your heels dug in here but truthfully what is being missed by you being teleported to the dungeon?

  17. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    "my experience is valid, your experience is wrong and you obviously didn't play the game at all"

    nice narcissism
    more like your experience does not line up to the majority of most posters on just about every site the discussion takes place, and wanting to keep it out for whatever stupid reasons you have (the general one I see a lot is gatekeeping, but also could kill off some of the gold GDKP or whatever)...

    so best bet is either lying or have ulterior motives to keep it out.

    nice BS though on your part.

    (and I did allow for your difference experience when I said (B: you attracted them)
    Last edited by Dadwen; 2022-08-23 at 05:14 PM.

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by Dadwen View Post
    more like your experience does not line up to the majority of most posters on just about every site the discussion takes place, and wanting to keep it out for whatever stupid reasons you have (the general one I see a lot is gatekeeping, but also could kill off some of the gold GDKP or whatever)...

    so best bet is either lying or have ulterior motives to keep it out.

    nice BS though on your part.

    (and I did allow for your difference experience when I said (B: you attracted them)
    What you said is true and anyone who is being honest knows it’s true. You run into just as many assholes without RDF than you do with RDF. And honestly at least with RDF your group can make the choice to boot someone who is being a prick unlike when you make a group the asshole 9/10 times is the group leader.

    I just recently came back to tbc for the xp boost and literally the first group I joined had an absolute man child in it, but we couldn’t do anything about it because he was the leader and reforming the group would have just taken longer than just putting him on ignore.

  19. #199
    Even the very minor social connection you make while zooming through a dungeon is maintained in a same-server environment. When the people you're playing with just sort of disappear into the ether, there's a "concrete" connection to others that's lost. There's no opportunity to go "oh hey there's that priest I played with". This is all without considering the incentives/disincentives around instant teleporting, or the matchmaking system.

  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by Kraenen View Post
    Even the very minor social connection you make while zooming through a dungeon is maintained in a same-server environment. When the people you're playing with just sort of disappear into the ether, there's a "concrete" connection to others that's lost. There's no opportunity to go "oh hey there's that priest I played with". This is all without considering the incentives/disincentives around instant teleporting, or the matchmaking system.
    On the mega server environment that is the case though. You leave the group and even if they manage to stay on the same layer they are lost in a sea of people. Then with layers you might be 2 feet from each other but in a different realm just with the same name.

    Anyone that believes 5 man's are a social experience lives in a very cloudy room because the bong smoke must filling it up. It's just a bad take.

    This company is only motivated by one thing. It only makes decisions based upon one thing. Extracting money. Somehow they see RDF reducing swipes. It's the only reason they do it. They could care less about you making friends.

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