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  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by Nubpwn View Post
    Edit: Spamming LFG, forming a group, traveling to the instance, summoning the group, these are all things that absolutely are FUN FOR ME. I know it's hard to understand that some people like being social. Some people actually like playing the game instead of playing through menus. LFR/RDF content is barely more engaging that getting gear from the mission table, might as well stop beating around the bush and make all instant gratification gear come from the mission table.
    We're now like 5 ppl in a row who have told you this. Retail works exactly the same. If you find those things fun? You find retail fun. Period.
    Lets hear your wild mental gymnastics on this one, I dont even know why I bother replying.

  2. #262
    Crap Dev's seem to be taking too much of their design ideas\visions from retail and trying to cram them into LK (hell the LFG tool from what I hear is a crappy copy of the M+ one, I was going to sub but I wanted to play LK (how it was then, not this garbage version they have planned).

    *not sure if many heard this old saying but all this makes me think of it - , "they are so bad (incompetent) they could screw up a wet dream".

  3. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by Dadwen View Post
    Crap Dev's seem to be taking too much of their design ideas\visions from retail and trying to cram them into LK (hell the LFG tool from what I hear is a crappy copy of the M+ one, I was going to sub but I wanted to play LK (how it was then, not this garbage version they have planned).

    *not sure if many heard this old saying but all this makes me think of it - , "they are so bad (incompetent) they could screw up a wet dream".
    the LFG tool for classic wrath is hilarious so far. mages queing as tanks/heals. people dont know where to set roles. saw a few groups that didnt even know how they became a leader or listed LOL.

  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    "Community" is one of the biggest red herrings in WoW.

    People have this romantic ideal of five strangers meeting in trade chat, embarking on this glorious journey together, and emerging as friends from the experience. It's a WoW after-school special that, simply put, NEVER HAPPENS, and never did.

    The reality is that people have goals in mind, and they're getting together with other people to achieve those goals. This can be easier or harder, depending on the systems available. Making it harder doesn't suddenly melt the icy hearts of social isolates. It doesn't turn "OMG KICK THE NOOB" ragemongers into kinder, gentler people just because they now have to spend 20 minutes scouring chat and hopping on a flight path.

    All this does is extend the lifetime of content by limiting how many dungeons people can do, and the only ones benefiting from this are Blizzard. The fact that the "but muh COMMUUUNIITEEEEE" white knights are flocking to support the phantasmagoric illusion of some kind of illustrious "community" that we all now get to graciously be embraced by as Blizzard "saves players from themselves" by forcing them to waste time is nothing but a cruel, twisted irony.
    Just because it didn't happen to you doesn't mean it didn't happen. It's actually how I grew my guild in WotLK. Now, today I think it would be less successful because Zeitgeist, but still I like that they are trying.

  5. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by tomten View Post
    you have to do the classic way and frankly? It sucks and is an annoying timewaster that serves exactly zero purpose.
    Yeah, having to travel through the game world is a dumb annoying timewaster. Blizz should just remove all zones and have the entire game be a hub city full of portals to instant teleport you to every dungeon. Wouldn't that be fantastic? What a great MMORPG that would be, where you never have to travel anywhere.

    lmfao

  6. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    Yeah, having to travel through the game world is a dumb annoying timewaster. Blizz should just remove all zones and have the entire game be a hub city full of portals to instant teleport you to every dungeon. Wouldn't that be fantastic? What a great MMORPG that would be, where you never have to travel anywhere.

    lmfao
    ya AFK flying to the dungeon entrance adds so much to the game..... (and exactly what I did the first time around in BC and LK *pre-rdf) *on occasion did overshoot.

  7. #267
    One thing that could help find some middle ground is if that LFD tool they put into the game wasn't a steaming pile of poo. It's just not very responsive. Really not intuitive to say the least. Has this weird thing that resets your role to tank from time to time. On mega servers you have an insane amount of listings of which many are bogus. Classes that can't tank or heal can sign up as such. You have to manually refresh. End of the day it's just clunky, not easy to look at, and needlessly time consuming to use.

    Why didn't they just go with the proven retail LFD group maker? Or hell just leave in RDF if this is the best they could come up with. Because this is just bad imo.

  8. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    Yeah, having to travel through the game world is a dumb annoying timewaster. Blizz should just remove all zones and have the entire game be a hub city full of portals to instant teleport you to every dungeon. Wouldn't that be fantastic? What a great MMORPG that would be, where you never have to travel anywhere.

    lmfao
    You dont really have an argument do you? Thats why you have to make this unrealistic hyperbole scenario?
    If I want to do dungeons, i have very little interest in the open world...
    That doesn't mean I don't enjoy doing other activities? It just means when I want to do dungeons, I want to do dungeons, not travel around and waste time just so I can do what it is I want.
    Imagine if you had to run a dungeon before being able to travel to a zone, would you like that?

  9. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by tomten View Post
    You dont really have an argument do you? Thats why you have to make this unrealistic hyperbole scenario?
    If I want to do dungeons, i have very little interest in the open world...
    That doesn't mean I don't enjoy doing other activities? It just means when I want to do dungeons, I want to do dungeons, not travel around and waste time just so I can do what it is I want.
    Imagine if you had to run a dungeon before being able to travel to a zone, would you like that?
    And if I want to do dungeons I prefer to have some social interaction with people, which happens far more when people are more invested. That was kinda the point of classic. You realize your argument would apply to LFR as well right? "If I want to do raids, I have very little interest in the open world". If not then tell me how it's different, and if it isn't then realize you're advocating for something many people specifically tried to avoid when they started playing classic.

  10. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by tomten View Post
    You dont really have an argument do you? Thats why you have to make this unrealistic hyperbole scenario?
    I'm going off of what you said.

    You said travel is an annoying timewaster, so let's just remove it from the game. No more travel, everything is just instant teleports.

  11. #271
    Quote Originally Posted by Warning View Post
    And if I want to do dungeons I prefer to have some social interaction with people, which happens far more when people are more invested. That was kinda the point of classic. You realize your argument would apply to LFR as well right? "If I want to do raids, I have very little interest in the open world". If not then tell me how it's different, and if it isn't then realize you're advocating for something many people specifically tried to avoid when they started playing classic.
    And many others were happy to accept its absence in Classic and TBC because it wasn't part of the original release, same with dual-spec in TBC, flying in Classic, meeting stones in Classic etc. With WotLK however, it was part of that expansion and as such many people, the majority by every metric available, want it to be included regardless of what the tryhard Andys like to scream.

  12. #272
    It didn't ruin the social aspect. TBCC has proven that beyond a shadow of the doubt. Even right now in the pre-patch using this broken LFG tool there no social aspect to it. People play with their guildies. If they have to they'll invite 1 stranger. They don't talk, and when the dungeon is over they part ways and never speak to each other again. Not to mention the utter waste of time forming the groups and travelling to the dungeons: pointless time sinks that exist simply to slow players down.

    Wrath just isn't Wrath without RDF.

  13. #273
    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    I'm going off of what you said.

    You said travel is an annoying timewaster, so let's just remove it from the game. No more travel, everything is just instant teleports.
    Sure, why not?

  14. #274
    Brewmaster Tiev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coffeh View Post
    It didn't ruin the social aspect. TBCC has proven that beyond a shadow of the doubt. Even right now in the pre-patch using this broken LFG tool there no social aspect to it. People play with their guildies. If they have to they'll invite 1 stranger. They don't talk, and when the dungeon is over they part ways and never speak to each other again. Not to mention the utter waste of time forming the groups and travelling to the dungeons: pointless time sinks that exist simply to slow players down.

    Wrath just isn't Wrath without RDF.
    Your experience is miles apart from mine. People talk in my dungeons. I run heroics all the time with randoms. I talk to people in the world all the time and meet them again all the time. I see familiar names in the AH, general chat and sometimes get into dungeons with them and remember the person.

    I think you might be playing in Streamer realms, but that's not my experience in Westfall and now Maladath.

  15. #275
    Players, universally in every single feedback thread about the modern direction of the game: WoW feels like a lobby game, where is the RPG?

    This guy when asked to remove one of the few RPG elements left in the game:

    Quote Originally Posted by tomten View Post
    Sure, why not?

  16. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomten View Post
    We're now like 5 ppl in a row who have told you this. Retail works exactly the same. If you find those things fun? You find retail fun. Period.
    Lets hear your wild mental gymnastics on this one, I dont even know why I bother replying.
    I've tried retail when I stopped raiding TBC (end of BT) waiting for wrath. While those things you mention are absolutely true, you have those things in retail with mythic+, there is no more socialization in dungeons, where there absolutely is in classic. The experience of some people may vary, but I had a very hard time chatting with anyone in retail while in dungeons because there is no time to type (and voice is too intrusive) in an m+. Without chatting, there is no social engagement. The whole experience in retail is a race. That's not *always* the case in classic, even late in the expansion. Over 2 months of running dungeons, mythic+ and LFR, there is very, very little if any socialization in retail outside of guilds.

    I've resubbed to classic for Wrath and that was a vastly different experience for me when it comes to just making friends in a levelling/gearing dungeon. And the reason that it's impossible to be social in retail is the race mentality created by M+ for every single type of dungeon, m+ or not.

    Which is why for many of us classic isn't a side experience, a curiosity, it's the World of Warcraft we love. Not World of Mobile Diablo.

  17. #277
    Quote Originally Posted by tomten View Post
    Sure, why not?
    Rift had that, it was nice.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  18. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by Nubpwn View Post
    Too bad this is a fantasy. Even in retail, even with LFR/RDF, queue times are absolutely atrocious. Yes, it still takes over an hour for dps to find groups. Tell me again how that is so much better again? Long queue times AND no potential for social interactions? Yay?




    "Actually playing the game" is doing group content. That's what made WoW popular and why it is still popular today. And I mean REAL group content where you TALK to players, not this pseudo group content in retail where technically players are in the same group and proximity to each other so it technically counts.
    I have played DPS and in the 1000s of queues I have been in I have never had a queue last an hour. Not once. I have had some go for 30 mins but Queues for DPS are typically 15 mins. This bullshit of 1 hour queues is not true and has never been true.

    I have had some bad experiences in LFD but I can only remember 1 time that I actually remember specifics. This was in BC. This bullshit of LFD creates toxicity is not true for me and for the majority of players.

    It doesn't matter how you define "actual playing the game" because many of playera define it as doing something in the game that isn't watching the chat screen hoping to be the first to spam the guy to get in. E.g. professions, gathering, talking to friends, dailies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nizah View Post
    why so mad bro

  19. #279
    I prefer 5-man dungeons than 25man raid.
    My effort is reflected more when there are less people. Especially as a tank or healer.

    On topic, it is all about sub.
    If you play with real friends, you are unlikely to unsub, because if you unsub, your friends will be sad.
    I don't believe this crap, but Blizzard does.

  20. #280
    Quote Originally Posted by Nubpwn View Post
    Not fun FOR YOU. Sorry but just instantly spamming braindead content and being given welfare epics is NOT fun FOR ME.

    Like holy shit the community argument didn't come out of thin air, people aren't making this shit up. There actually are people that exist that enjoy the social aspects. Just because you aren't one of them doesn't mean it's not real. There's a reason Wrath of the Lich King is STILL the most successful, most popular expansion to date and it's not because modern retail features are so great, it's because they are terrible.

    Again I must ask, why play the game? Why not just be given loot? Why not just have "YOU WIN" scroll across your screen? That's all you seem to need anyway.

    Edit: Spamming LFG, forming a group, traveling to the instance, summoning the group, these are all things that absolutely are FUN FOR ME. I know it's hard to understand that some people like being social. Some people actually like playing the game instead of playing through menus. LFR/RDF content is barely more engaging that getting gear from the mission table, might as well stop beating around the bush and make all instant gratification gear come from the mission table.
    Creating your own group and having a RDF is not mutually exclusive. Why are you hell-bent on forcing others to have fun like you? If there are enough players out there like you to form groups in an hour when there is a RDF then your version of fun is valid. If not then statistically you might as well say there is no one who has fun forming their own groups.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nubpwn View Post
    Lmao you just double down with the "no you" with no further explanation.

    I'll explain one more time. RDF and LFR content is so stupidly braindead that it is equivalent to just pressing a button and getting the same rewards. You can disagree all you want, but the CLASSIC community feels the same way. Period. End of discussion.

    You should probably get over yourself and listen to others for a change.
    You are confusing the Classic Community with yourself. The majority of people want RDF in some form. Not wanting some form of RFD in WotLK is the minority view.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nizah View Post
    why so mad bro

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