How did RDF ruined the social aspect??.

[Orange Joe]

I think travel, in general, is a good thing for an RPG to have. We're inundated these days with all sorts of "quick travel" conveniences in every fucking game that's released that it kind of takes you out of the game when you can just open a spell book and go anywhere instantly. People like to frame these convenience features as necessities but I personally think the lack of such features is one of the most characteristic elements in the genre and I respect when developers take a stand against the community on it.

We do travel in the world a lot. The whole leveling experience is traveling through the world. Sorry but going afk on a FP to get to a dungeon is not engaging gameplay......

[Sableye]

I think travel, in general, is a good thing for an RPG to have. We're inundated these days with all sorts of "quick travel" conveniences in every fucking game that's released that it kind of takes you out of the game when you can just open a spell book and go anywhere instantly. People like to frame these convenience features as necessities but I personally think the lack of such features is one of the most characteristic elements in the genre and I respect when developers take a stand against the community on it.

part of the need to quick travel is because blizz only seems to care about navagable zones 1/3rd of the time. Legion was great to get around even before flight, the roads were there and there were plenty of flight paths and if you got lost there was the flight whistle. BFA, fucking sucks to walk anywhere because the zones have few flight paths and the roads make no sense half the time. WoD, literally the big transport mechanism cut from the game. MoP because flight came relatively late in the game, again you have good laid out zones, good flight paths and dungeon entrances are not impossible to find. its an inconsistent issue with expansions that makes running around annoying

[Dadwen]

part of the need to quick travel is because blizz only seems to care about navagable zones 1/3rd of the time. Legion was great to get around even before flight, the roads were there and there were plenty of flight paths and if you got lost there was the flight whistle. BFA, fucking sucks to walk anywhere because the zones have few flight paths and the roads make no sense half the time. WoD, literally the big transport mechanism cut from the game. MoP because flight came relatively late in the game, again you have good laid out zones, good flight paths and dungeon entrances are not impossible to find. its an inconsistent issue with expansions that makes running around annoying

Hmmm ok... played mages several times, opened spell book - traveled instantly - nope didn't feel like it took me out of the game.... or when I got summoned by locks or summon stones... odd... must be just them (if it makes them feel better just pretend the Dungeon teleport was a summoning stone teleporting them in). *also seems blizzard does not agree either since they took out the must go to battle masters or battleground to queue for PVP instances.

[Relapses]

We do travel in the world a lot. The whole leveling experience is traveling through the world. Sorry but going afk on a FP to get to a dungeon is not engaging gameplay......

The guy you quoted was implying he'd like to fast travel everywhere in the game at the click of button. At that point, we may as well just have a lobby that says "join queue," and eliminate whatever RPG elements are left in WoW. And yeah, I know this is exactly what some people want but I don't think this is the direction Blizzard is going to be moving the game, especially Classic.

[Akka]

part of the need to quick travel is because blizz only seems to care about navagable zones 1/3rd of the time. Legion was great to get around even before flight, the roads were there and there were plenty of flight paths and if you got lost there was the flight whistle.

Wat ?
Legion was THE absolute worst case of PITA to navigate in all WoW history up to it (can't speak for later expansions). It was a convoluted nightmare of walled paths that barely interconnected and felt hugely man-made, where you would constantly end up taking ten minutes running around to find the way to reach some place that was right beside you on the map.

[Nachtigal]

Oh I dont disagree, im fairly indiferrent, but if you were to put a gun to my head, I would pick no LFD, I'm talking about people spinning these insane webs through meticulous mental gymnastics to paint this picture that anyone who disagree with them is a literal demon who just wants to gatekeep them from loot, like how would removing LFD even accomplish that goal?

The topic of LFD I would be surprised if it doesnt make it in, the players base as a whole is way too entitled for it not to happen, casual or hardcore elitist, it doesnt really matter, they will feel entitled to have it in the game, and people who dont want it in are mostly similar to me, just slightly in favor for it to be gone in my opinion. LFD is not the hill to die on for them.

also plenty of games did fine without LFD, so that statement isnt exactly true. While Runescape did not launch after wrath, OSRS did, and it does not have LFD, GW2 didnt have LFD when I played it atleast, but i havent played it since they launched the first expansion so at this point i might be very out of touch, but even if it has one now, the base game was out for a long time before I quit, I would not call that backtracking hard.

I could probably try and find more, but those are the ones that came to mind immediately.

Also have 0 sympathy for DPS players, it is part of the choice of gameplay, you want to play an overstacked role, and dont want to play ur tank off-specc, or a tank alt? then this is part of the package. it is fine to be selfish like that, but you have to accept the consequences of that choice as well. I deliberately play w/e is usually needed by the group for that reason, to avoid that consequence, not because I find Feral druid exciting to play in TBC. but all of that just spins around to the self entitlement of wow players, the behavior of a spoiled child if you will.

OSRS comparison is moot. There aren’t really dungeons in OSRS. You have raids in OSRS, and raids in OSRS simply wouldn’t fit the LFD style of gameplay. You can wipe in a WoW LFD dungeon and be no worse for wear (apart from gear durability). Wiping in a raid has much heavier consequences in OSRS than in a WoW LFD dungeon. Gear drops are dependent upon performance, if you die, group loses points. Less points = worse chance at loot.

[bullseyed]

You actually couldn’t have missed the point any harder than you just did. He was talking about how people defend the removal of the lfg tool because they want the ‘aspect of community’ with using the chat function. Well in practice the chat function is just used to gate keep people out of content and it’s almost impossible to get a group unless you are geared to the tits or have a shit load of money.

None of these conspiracy theories in your comment are accurate.

[Dadwen]

good ole blizzard:
RDF a LK feature it's too much like retail... bad ...
M+ feature not in LK originally, added later in retail.... good ....

What the hell are they smoking over there? if you drive by the Blizzard office are they just out licking the windows?

[Hotmail]

I don't think it "ruined" anything per se, as RDF had some significant upsides. But I sure as hell don't really care about the other 4 strangers I get queued with, whereas pre-RDF people would often add each other to their Friend List so they could run again at a later date.

That said, one of WoW's original selling points was that you could level and play solo for the majority of your playtime, so it was never an especially social game.

[zhero]

Dungeons require very little if any communication to kill bosses.

that is another side effect of dungeon finder.

[Flaks]

It didn't. Just like LFR it allowed more folks to see the content. That's of course like spitting in the organized players' face and we can't be having any of those things.

[Grinning Serpent]

I don't think it "ruined" anything per se, as RDF had some significant upsides. But I sure as hell don't really care about the other 4 strangers I get queued with, whereas pre-RDF people would often add each other to their Friend List so they could run again at a later date.

That said, one of WoW's original selling points was that you could level and play solo for the majority of your playtime, so it was never an especially social game.

When did you start playing? Vanilla and TBC were very social games, because you *had* to have friends and a guild to get things done. Even leveling, especially in vanilla, was a *lot* smoother and easier (and fun) if you had some friends to do it with. I don't know how Classic for those worked, because I didn't come back for them. Maybe it was different, with all the knowledge and resources we have now. But back in 2004 and 2005 when WoW was new to everyone? Dude, you *had* to have friends to play with.

I would argue you still need friends and/or a guild in WotLK Classic, and removal of RFD is a huge part of that. Unless you're on the small faction on a heavily lopsided server (like in excess of 70/30), I think any complaints of "waah, can't get groups!" need to be taken with a grain of salt. There are several, *temporary* reasons why it may be hard to find a group this past week, on a relatively balanced server (anything better than 70/30 small-side, basically):

- People have hit 70 on whatever classes they were interested in being "Lich King ready" on and are taking a break before WoW eats all their free time again next week. These folks are not going to be looking for dungeons or raids.

- People have hit 70 on whatever classes, but they're now focused on getting professions up to par for Northrend. I was doing my mithril grind this week and I saw a *TON* of level 70's running around looking for mithril, firebloom, etc in Tanaris and even more in Hinterlands. These folks are not going to be looking for dungeons or raids.

- People are still leveling, but they're in one of those level brackets where the only available dungeons kind of suck, so they're skipping them. I'm in this bracket right now, at 46-50ish. Zul'Farrak, Maraudon, and Sunken Temple are all pretty bad, so I only run them once to complete quests and never look back. By 50 you're starting to get in range of most of BRD, Scholomance, etc... but I think those dungeons kind of suck, too, so I'll probably skip them as well unless I need a blob of XP from quests. Ramparts will probably be the point at which I start looking to queue up for dungeons repeatedly.

These reasons will not necessarily continue to be in play as people return to the game to start entering Northrend, etc.

And at any rate, the solution to all of them is literally just "fucking talk to people and make friends and play with your friends, you weirdo." Did you do something with someone and they seemed cool? Add them to your friends, and DM them to see if they want to do a dungeon with you next time you're going in and need a +1. Ask your guildmates. You know... *be social.*

[NatePsy]

Feel like not having RDF just further reinforces the shitty attitude's from people recruiting for groups, the solution should be to let it exist while also having Group Finder for those that want to make their own groups and pick who they want in their groups; keep the min-max'ing shittery to Group Finder while those of us that just want to play the game normally have our own outlet.

Even for Dungeons in Group Finder on Classic you have player's with the worst mindset. Group Finder worked for the game in that time period, player-base behavior has changed a lot for the worse since then, player sentiment these days is "I want the best people in my groups and won't accept less"

[Grinning Serpent]

Thing is, with server-specific Group Finder, if you have players with a shitty mindset... *you can blacklist them from your groups.* And since the player pool is smaller, it might actually be meaningful, especially if you're often running groups for content that's desirable (daily heroic farms, weekly 10 man raid groups, etc.) You can go "oh that guy's a prick" and never invite them to your group. Theoretically, if the person really was just a huge pain in the ass to be around, it might get to the point that they have serious issues finding a group that will take them at all.

I don't think we need RFD. I think it's good that we do not have it. But they definitely need to expand Group Finder and make it more effective at its intended role. Currently, it's pretty lackluster. I think step 1 would definitely be implementing some method by which people cannot queue for a role that they cannot/will not perform. Some sort of method of determining gear would also be important, since there's certainly a point in the game where item level *does* start to genuinely matter.

[crusadernero]

Funny thing is; Blizzard added RDF late in WOTLK. Not long after Cata was launched with hard HCs compared to previously. Before that, everything was piss easy. Suddenly everything had to be difficult while adding a RDF. Hah.

TBH, not having RDF sucks more while leveling than at max level. Big time.

[Loveliest]

no. the teleport thing is not a must. You just want it because you're lazy. .

Yes, I agree. You should work hard in games. Effort, sweat. Our parents should be proud we don't laze around playing games, we work!

[Relapses]

good ole blizzard:
RDF a LK feature it's too much like retail... bad ...
M+ feature not in LK originally, added later in retail.... good ....

What the hell are they smoking over there? if you drive by the Blizzard office are they just out licking the windows?

M+ isn't being added to WotLK Classic. Heroic+ is a catch up mechanic for raid gear. M+ is an alternative gear path. The purposes of these two features are entirely separate from one another.

I'd tell you that it'd be nice if you'd stop creating completely disingenuous arguments but I doubt that'll be happening any time soon. From here until the end of time people like you are going to think you've reached the pinnacle of smarminess by saying, "That's nice Blizzard but RDF when?" in every fucking single content update they push out.

[Dadwen]

M+ isn't being added to WotLK Classic. Heroic+ is a catch up mechanic for raid gear. M+ is an alternative gear path. The purposes of these two features are entirely separate from one another.

I'd tell you that it'd be nice if you'd stop creating completely disingenuous arguments but I doubt that'll be happening any time soon. From here until the end of time people like you are going to think you've reached the pinnacle of smarminess by saying, "That's nice Blizzard but RDF when?" in every fucking single content update they push out.

Ok H+ didn't in one of the interviews a bliz person (Kris Zierhut) come and and say it was borrowed from retail?

Sooooo still stands one retail idea bad the other ok..... (seeing even more funny RDF is a LK idea)

I'll stop when you feel the need to stop sucking up to blizzard and trying to defend their hypocrisy.

[Relapses]

Ok H+ didn't in one of the interviews a bliz person come and and say it was borrowed from retail?

Sooooo still stands one retail idea bad the other ok..... (seeing even more funny RDF is a LK idea)

I'll stop when you feel the need to stop sucking up to blizzard and trying to defend their hypocrisy.

Do you not understand the purpose of intent? If the intent for H+ was the same as M+ I'd say go off king. But it isn't. By design. Because it's not M+. This isn't defending hypocrisy. It's stating that apples are not oranges. Like, holy fuck dude.

[Dadwen]

Do you not understand the purpose of intent? If the intent for H+ was the same as M+ I'd say go off king. But it isn't. By design. Because it's not M+. This isn't defending hypocrisy. It's stating that apples are not oranges. Like, holy fuck dude.

I don't give two shits of the intent, I give a shit why the feature I want is tooooo retailish an can't be put in, but the feature they want to put in more-so from retail is ok.

ya it (same as a teleport is ok if it's for PVP) is but you have too much of bliz's back side in your eyes to notice.