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  1. #21
    I am Murloc! SinR's Avatar
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    Blizzard: We want to bring back the sense of COMMUNITY that was in place in Vanilla / TBC / WOTLK

    "LF1M TANK DAILY HEROIC MUST BE T5 GEARED"
    We're all newbs, some are just more newbier than others.

    Just a burned out hardcore raider turned casual.
    I'm tired. So very tired. Can I just lay my head on your lap and fall asleep?
    #TeamFuckEverything

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    "Community" is one of the biggest red herrings in WoW.

    People have this romantic ideal of five strangers meeting in trade chat, embarking on this glorious journey together, and emerging as friends from the experience. It's a WoW after-school special that, simply put, NEVER HAPPENS, and never did.
    Don't project your personal failings onto others. It happened to me and countless players

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by ONCHEhap View Post
    Don't project your personal failings onto others. It happened to me and countless players
    Don't project your personal successes onto others.

    "It happened to me this one time, therefore it happens to everyone and should be the basis of a system that ENFORCES the thing I like onto others!"

    Yeah, pass on that please.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    "Community" is one of the biggest red herrings in WoW.

    People have this romantic ideal of five strangers meeting in trade chat, embarking on this glorious journey together, and emerging as friends from the experience. It's a WoW after-school special that, simply put, NEVER HAPPENS, and never did.

    The reality is that people have goals in mind, and they're getting together with other people to achieve those goals. This can be easier or harder, depending on the systems available. Making it harder doesn't suddenly melt the icy hearts of social isolates. It doesn't turn "OMG KICK THE NOOB" ragemongers into kinder, gentler people just because they now have to spend 20 minutes scouring chat and hopping on a flight path.

    All this does is extend the lifetime of content by limiting how many dungeons people can do, and the only ones benefiting from this are Blizzard. The fact that the "but muh COMMUUUNIITEEEEE" white knights are flocking to support the phantasmagoric illusion of some kind of illustrious "community" that we all now get to graciously be embraced by as Blizzard "saves players from themselves" by forcing them to waste time is nothing but a cruel, twisted irony.
    Speak for yourself. World of Warcraft has taken me across and out of the country to meet the people I've played with the last 10 years.

  5. #25
    The Unstoppable Force Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SinR View Post
    Blizzard: We want to bring back the sense of COMMUNITY that was in place in Vanilla / TBC / WOTLK

    "LF1M TANK DAILY HEROIC MUST BE T5 GEARED"
    What, you don't relish the opportunity to sit in Dalaran spamming trade chat for 45 minutes to grab a tank only for one of the DPS to leave halfway through the wait and then have the healer AFK out without saying anything?
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Nachtigal View Post
    Speak for yourself. World of Warcraft has taken me across and out of the country to meet the people I've played with the last 10 years.
    And 99.99% of WoW players will never meet anyone they ever play with face to face.

    Your point being what, that because you are one of the edge cases where this happens in some way (which I'm guessing had very little to do with the existence OR lack of dungeon finder, by the way), that means it's a representative situation that warrants change for everyone else?

    I once met a stranger with a van and they told me they had candy inside. I walked away with two bags of Reeses and full-size Snickers. I think we should change the law to make sure all kids are taught that strangers with a van have candy, because THAT IS WHAT HAPPENED TO ME!

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Nalam the Venom View Post
    Because most people want their opinion and thoughts to be the top/first post and the talk to be specifically on what they wrote.
    You may no know this, but if you post in the other thread it becomes the top/first post. The more you know

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by storn206 View Post
    You may no know this, but if you post in the other thread it becomes the top/first post. The more you know
    Only if the person reading has it set to show newest post first rather than oldest post first.

  9. #29
    i leveled on one of the mega servers a few weeks ago and i hardly saw any socializing in the dungeons i ran. in fact it felt like half the server didn't even speak english.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    What, you don't relish the opportunity to sit in Dalaran spamming trade chat for 45 minutes to grab a tank only for one of the DPS to leave halfway through the wait and then have the healer AFK out without saying anything?
    If you're gonna make a case PRO RDF, at least make a valid one, because it was incredibly more common for people to go afk in random, even as soon as you entered. Same for leavers, waiting 10-15 minutes in queue for tank to leave as soon as you entered because it wasn't an instance that he wanted was also a thing.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgnMpOU1LNQ

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by kranur View Post
    If you're gonna make a case PRO RDF, at least make a valid one, because it was incredibly more common for people to go afk in random, even as soon as you entered. Same for leavers, waiting 10-15 minutes in queue for tank to leave as soon as you entered because it wasn't an instance that he wanted was also a thing.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgnMpOU1LNQ
    You're gonna have shitty interactions in group content regardless of how much you strip away systems. I've grouped both ways and the social interaction isn't any better or worse (I mean it's a dungeon there really isn't a whole lot going on to begin with). My argument for RDF is simple it's a targeted solution to a major problem in a core feature of the game. Without it you will inevitably run into the same issue over and over, which is actually being able to do dungeons regularly and consistently. Dungeons are a small group activity that is low risk low reward but it happens to be the hardest bit of content to actually get into as expansions age. What are we really preserving by keeping out RDF and will it even matter that you preserved the "social system" of Vanilla/TBC dungeons when people can't even find a group within reasonable expectations.

  12. #32
    If you want group finder there's always a version of this game waiting for you.

    People out there are really acting like systems don't influence human behaviour. Blizzard was right about one thing: players don't really know what they want and they do bad stuff because years of retail conditioning have turned them into lobotomites. They should take even more measures to make them behave in less degenerate ways (anti boosting/farming changes were a good start albeit poorly implemented). Enforce faction balance, ban gold buyers (maybe also GDKP) etc.

    First unambiguously good change Blizzard has made to Classic if you ask me.
    The absolute state of Warcraft lore in 2021:
    Kyrians: We need to keep chucking people into the Maw because it's our job.
    Also Kyrians: Why is the Maw growing stronger despite all our efforts?

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    If you want group finder there's always a version of this game waiting for you.
    Well seeing as retail is not an option due to not being able to play non-shitty class design or play without scaling, you must be telling people to play on private servers which I thought was not allowed here.
    Last edited by Dadwen; 2022-08-10 at 11:24 AM.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    If you want group finder there's always a version of this game waiting for you.

    People out there are really acting like systems don't influence human behaviour. Blizzard was right about one thing: players don't really know what they want and they do bad stuff because years of retail conditioning have turned them into lobotomites. They should take even more measures to make them behave in less degenerate ways (anti boosting/farming changes were a good start albeit poorly implemented). Enforce faction balance, ban gold buyers (maybe also GDKP) etc.

    First unambiguously good change Blizzard has made to Classic if you ask me.
    Ah yes the old go play retail argument that actually says nothing and has very little to do with the actual discussion. My first thought is you're not particular versed on the topic outside shallow comments on retail and "player behavior". No one even said systems don't influence player behavior but what are you trying to say here? I suppose you could be implying that RDF will influence players to have poor behavior which is an overstatement in my opinion. What we're talking about is content that is almost immediately irrelevant some few weeks after release and that's not even talking about lower level dungeons. The interaction requirement for dungeons is at the bare minimum of WoW activities leaving few ways for players to behave in a negative way. It's astonishing some people are so caught up in this idea RDF is the single greatest threat to WoWs social communities and behaviors.
    Retail's state is far more complicated than RDF. I mean RDF hasn't even been relevant content in many years in retail. It's essentially just a leveling tool. It's hardly even a blip on the design/tech changes that have occurred over these many years.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by DeltaLimaCharlie View Post
    Ah yes the old go play retail argument that actually says nothing and has very little to do with the actual discussion. My first thought is you're not particular versed on the topic outside shallow comments on retail and "player behavior". No one even said systems don't influence player behavior but what are you trying to say here? I suppose you could be implying that RDF will influence players to have poor behavior which is an overstatement in my opinion. What we're talking about is content that is almost immediately irrelevant some few weeks after release and that's not even talking about lower level dungeons. The interaction requirement for dungeons is at the bare minimum of WoW activities leaving few ways for players to behave in a negative way. It's astonishing some people are so caught up in this idea RDF is the single greatest threat to WoWs social communities and behaviors.
    Retail's state is far more complicated than RDF. I mean RDF hasn't even been relevant content in many years in retail. It's essentially just a leveling tool. It's hardly even a blip on the design/tech changes that have occurred over these many years.
    The argument is relevant because it's literally the reason they're choosing not to add the RDF to Classic. Blizzard wants the Classic experience to be different than the retail experience. They do not want the experiences of the two products to become too similar because the driving principle behind adding Classic in the first place was that the retail experience had changed so much it had inadvertently distanced itself from players who would otherwise still play the game.

  16. #36
    The problem was related to the fact that it was cross realm to assist in getting tanks and healers. You'd encounter people for one dungeon maybe see them the next few dungeons if you kept going in que and then they were gone. If its not cross realm grouping there shouldn't be any damage to the social aspect of the game (You'll see those people again in dungeons, and again at 80). Name changes also posed a similar problem; in that people were a bit less anonymous if you ninja something, or intentionally caused a wipe, etc. that reputation could follow you.

  17. #37
    Cross realm groups destroyed the community. You no longer had to worry about being an asshat because you were never going to see those players again.

    Totally different thing if you got blasted on trade chat for Ninja looting and get blacklisted on whole server.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Deneios View Post
    Cross realm groups destroyed the community. You no longer had to worry about being an asshat because you were never going to see those players again.

    Totally different thing if you got blasted on trade chat for Ninja looting and get blacklisted on whole server.
    Using that as a defense against RDF seems to be pointless since you can name change in Classic Wreck of the lich king (think that will be my new name for it) and faction change. (Blizzard: we care about the community... $$ well not that much...$$$$.... )

  19. #39
    Over 9000! Kithelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jkq View Post
    it didnt

    its just an excuse for people
    Pretty much...even back in vanilla I rarely communicated with groups beyond finding them (leader would mark targets for cc as needed), never made these life long bonds that dungeon finder haters claim were made before its inception. Only friendships I made in WoW were either outside of the game or the guilds I was in...never made a single dungeon friend.

    All RDF did was make things easier

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Dadwen View Post
    Using that as a defense against RDF seems to be pointless since you can name change in Classic Wreck of the lich king (think that will be my new name for it) and faction change. (Blizzard: we care about the community... $$ well not that much...$$$$.... )
    They literally said in their response that originally they weren't going to allow faction changes but changed their mind based off of community feedback.

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    While it won’t be ready for our launch in September, we have changed our minds on this, and we’re working on adding the Race and Faction change as a paid service in a future patch.

    Originally, we planned not to offer Race and Faction change at all, because it felt like it removed some of that fantasy feeling of having dramatically different physical attributes that affect your gameplay. We were also a little worried about players chasing the “flavor of the month” in terms of racial abilities However, we’re convinced by the argument that being able to play with your friends is more important, and that you should be able to bring your accomplishments with you when you do. This turns out to be the same tradeoff provided by transferring between realms, which is already available as a paid service, so it makes sense to make the same decision with respect to Race and Faction change.

    In short, this fits our aim to nurture and protect social experiences, so we’ll work on it for an upcoming patch.
    If they're truly only motivated by money why the fuck would they say that?

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