How did RDF ruined the social aspect??.

[Akka]

We had the exact same arguments used at the time when RDF was implemented.
And we already know the actual, real-life results that it had, and how Classic was a massive success bringing back the original vision.

So all the bullshit rationalization you can throw has been disproved by experience. Just shut up and go back playing retail if you want automated grouping.

[Relapses]

Broham, being told "go play retail" is not a reasonable response to someone wanting RDF in Wrath...it's weird you're trying to defend this, especially seeing as you're "not invested" in the RDF debate. It's even stranger you keep targeting me with these personal comments, literally everyone here is talking about their personal wants and desires.

Also sense you seem to have difficulty with reading...I've said 3 times now what Ion said was not a reasoning behind why they're not adding it into Wrath...he is saying if you want it you can go play retail, which is again for the how many ever times I've said this, an unreasonable response.

I don't have an issue reading so much as you seem to have comprehending. Ion's comments came after a segue, "let's talk changes" where each of the three lead devs give reasoning why they're not adding the RDF. You can feel Ion's words are unreasonable but that does not mean that this wasn't, quite literally, a reason provided by WoW's lead designer for not adding the RDF to the game.

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We had the exact same arguments used at the time when RDF was implemented.
And we already know the actual, real-life results that it had, and how Classic was a massive success bringing back the original vision.

So all the bullshit rationalization you can throw has been disproved by experience. Just shut up and go back playing retail if you want automated grouping.

Holy shit. I'm agreeing with you? I guess it's true: You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the enemy.

[Akka]

Holy shit. I'm agreeing with you? I guess it's true: You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the enemy.

It's called "growing up"

[DeltaLimaCharlie]

I don't have an issue reading so much as you seem to have comprehending. Ion's comments came after a segue, "let's talk changes" where each of the three lead devs give reasoning why they're not adding the RDF. You can feel Ion's words are unreasonable but that does not mean that this wasn't, quite literally, a reason provided by WoW's lead designer for not adding the RDF to the game.

It seems you're the one who is having trouble comprehending (this whole thing we're doing is kinda getting old). Ion's comments were in response to what Longdale and Hight were saying about the community and it's interactions. Ion in fact never once said the reason they were leaving it out of Wrath is because we have it in Retail. Ion is simple saying you can go play Retail if you want RDF or systems like it. I'm saying that this response is an unreasonable response for people who would like to play Wrath with RDF included. Like it's quite literally not stated anywhere that the reason they are not adding RDF in Wrath is because you can go play Retail.

[Nak88]

Move on. RDF is not happening guys, get over it.

[Jabakaga]

Good thing that they won't have RDF that extra social interaction /w inv plz makes everything different

[loras]

Dungeons are literally the lowest form of social interaction in WoW. Dungeons require very little if any communication to kill bosses. Most people in dungeons are looking for a quick in and out.

The fact it teleports you into the instance is such a small issue with the existence of flying and summoning. The proposed LFG tool doesn't fix any of the issues that RDF solves nor does it help foster "social interactions".

These are none issues in Wrath Classic, RDF on it's own is a fantastic tool that solves a major issue with older and irrelevant content.

You can always talk if you want to.
It's great that it's not mandatory, that way you can use the many asshats that WoW's playerbase is rich in without too much inconvenience.

I don't get why people think mandatory social interaction is in any way positive, it seems to me like these people are apparantly avoided by others for some reason when people aren't forced to interact with them.


Additionally i've found that the current m+ tool has much the same effect, just lacking some of the convenience; people assume you know the way, the tactics and all the shortcuts even if it's your first time and only speak to whine when you don't (i don't really feel obligated to prepare these things for near trivial difficulty content, and do not mind causing the rare wipe when i fail to learn something on the go)

[klaps_05]

Wrath dungeons are insanely easy - the moment when a system causes u to spend as much or more time preparing to put a group together than the activity itself, thats when you know its a garbage system.

[Nerovar]

Holy shit. I'm agreeing with you? I guess it's true: You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the enemy.

Relapses finally on the good side of WoW history.

[Deneios]

Hahahahahaha.

Oh. I'm sorry. You were serious about these "blacklists"? No one cared that people ninja looted then and they don't now. There were a few butthurt people having a go in chat but it's all just entertainment.

People are asshats within a server or in cross realm. LFD only "changed" your perception because you ran more dungeons

Looks like i found the asshat.

Our guild had a banlist and we changed info with other guilds who we worked with. Could be that we only worked with those who spoke the same language so we had more tight knit community. You messed around with the big guilds and you were made a pariah

Also this was a time when you had to make a written aplication to get in to the raiding guilds as a trial.

[Dadwen]

Looks like i found the asshat.

Our guild had a banlist and we changed info with other guilds who we worked with. Could be that we only worked with those who spoke the same language so we had more tight knit community. You messed around with the big guilds and you were made a pariah

Also this was a time when you had to make a written aplication to get in to the raiding guilds as a trial.

Hmm if people rep was such a big concern you'd think people would be screaming about paid names changes more than RDF, even with RDF you could have a list of people that were jerks and if you seen them pop up in a RDF run drop group or kick them if you queued with enough people. (this is about dungeons so raids really don't matter).

[Segus1992]

It didn't. They know it too. Or they wouldn't have had like every expansion since WotLK either expand or extend its life time going forward. If its really something that once out of the bottle it can never be put back in.. then well.. its already been let out (hint, re-release of a game) and also.. it probably means its highly desired by most players.

I feel this is just another example of them knowing best. Then we get to see the sad reversal sometime down the road with the follow up of "we will do a better job of listening to feedback" type of line. All the people trolling and shilling for RFDs removal will be queing up the same day they put it back in like they always wanted it. Over all a rather silly argument for them to make that it kills server communities.

Eh? Have you heard of M+? Ever wondered why it doesn't teleport you to the dungeon? CMs started this, literally 1.5 expansions after RDF was introduced. Just like how they've been trying to make flying less anti-MMO since it came: once the toy is given, it's hard to take it back.

[kranur]

There's no proof to be made whether RDF destroyed the social aspect or it would have happened anyway.

I think Blizzard is delusional that not including it will have this massive effect on socialization, because the community has changed a lot ... people no longer log in to have a good time, it's all about numbers, efficiency, speed, which I believe is the main reason why some complain anyway.

The very similar group finder tool works just fine for M+ in retail but somehow in classic the sky is falling. There is a bit of truth here because of the unbelievable spam that TBC and the latter part of classic had, that basically forced people into filtering addons to be able to read the relevant info.

Truth is, the game is fine both without it and with it and both options bring pros and cons, it's not all sunshine and butterflies with either of them. If Blizzard wants to give it a shot without it, then so be it, it wasn't a part of half of WotLK anyway, we'll see how it goes.

[Deneios]

Hmm if people rep was such a big concern you'd think people would be screaming about paid names changes more than RDF, even with RDF you could have a list of people that were jerks and if you seen them pop up in a RDF run drop group or kick them if you queued with enough people. (this is about dungeons so raids really don't matter).

RDF is a symptom of the disease called cross realm groups. They did those so they didnt need to give attention to the low population servers. Rather than merging servers they threw a poisoned bandaid on the problem.

Id be fine with server bound rdf

[Relapses]

It seems you're the one who is having trouble comprehending (this whole thing we're doing is kinda getting old). Ion's comments were in response to what Longdale and Hight were saying about the community and it's interactions. Ion in fact never once said the reason they were leaving it out of Wrath is because we have it in Retail. Ion is simple saying you can go play Retail if you want RDF or systems like it. I'm saying that this response is an unreasonable response for people who would like to play Wrath with RDF included. Like it's quite literally not stated anywhere that the reason they are not adding RDF in Wrath is because you can go play Retail.

This is some "I reject your reality and substitute my own" levels of semantic coping but I don't really care to continue this any further. I don't think you even realized that this information was in the reveal trailer at first because you kept referring to "a post" but whatever.

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There's no proof to be made whether RDF destroyed the social aspect or it would have happened anyway.

I think Blizzard is delusional that not including it will have this massive effect on socialization, because the community has changed a lot ... people no longer log in to have a good time, it's all about numbers, efficiency, speed, which I believe is the main reason why some complain anyway.

The very similar group finder tool works just fine for M+ in retail but somehow in classic the sky is falling. There is a bit of truth here because of the unbelievable spam that TBC and the latter part of classic had, that basically forced people into filtering addons to be able to read the relevant info.

Truth is, the game is fine both without it and with it and both options bring pros and cons, it's not all sunshine and butterflies with either of them. If Blizzard wants to give it a shot without it, then so be it, it wasn't a part of half of WotLK anyway, we'll see how it goes.

You can maybe see RDF as a "break glass in case of emergency" back-up plan for WotLK Classic but I honestly think it'll be fine without it. If you enter negativity echo chambers like this forum or Reddit you'll see a lot of backlash but I think the general Classic public is a lot more ambivalent than you'd be lead to believe if this is your only exposure to the community.

[kranur]

You can maybe see RDF as a "break glass in case of emergency" back-up plan for WotLK Classic but I honestly think it'll be fine without it. If you enter negativity echo chambers like this forum or Reddit you'll see a lot of backlash but I think the general Classic public is a lot more ambivalent than you'd be lead to believe if this is your only exposure to the community.

Of that I'm sure, proof to that is how absolutely not a single person in my guild acted like the world is ending. The worst reaction I've seen so far was "Ah, would have been nice to have it, whatever". Meanwhile if you access the forums ... the world is burning, 90% of the people are quitting etc.

[Dadwen]

RDF is a symptom of the disease called cross realm groups. They did those so they didnt need to give attention to the low population servers. Rather than merging servers they threw a poisoned bandaid on the problem.

Id be fine with server bound rdf

if they fixed the faction imbalanced servers\low servers that would not be too bad but on some servers one side of the faction is so bad there is barely enough to form groups at max level and near impossible at lower levels, still with a easy paid way out you're not getting rid of the assholes, name changes and faction\server changes are just as damaging (it just makes blizzard money so they allow it).

[Somic]

Blizzard: We want to bring back the sense of COMMUNITY that was in place in Vanilla / TBC / WOTLK

"LF1M TANK DAILY HEROIC MUST BE T5 GEARED"

I’m not even joking I saw a post on my server last night for a gdkp heroic setthik halls mount run where they were checking your gear at the stone.

[bullseyed]

"Community" is one of the biggest red herrings in WoW.

People have this romantic ideal of five strangers meeting in trade chat, embarking on this glorious journey together, and emerging as friends from the experience. It's a WoW after-school special that, simply put, NEVER HAPPENS, and never did.

Perhaps consider working on your toxicity, given how many other people make friends when you struggle to.

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Exactly. People want to take every single feature that makes the game accessible and keeps it accessible and demonize it.

But here's a fun fact.. people who started playing WoW at release who were 18... are now at or approaching 36 now. The game has been out for half their lives at this point. These people have graduated high school, gotten a degree, maybe pursued a Masters/PhD, started careers, gotten married and started families, or any number of life changes that affects their ability to play. DO you think Blizzard is going to tell those people "Well, life changed and we don't really care, so if you can't play like you did when you were 18 too bad, so sad." and ignore them? No.

The decline in the "social" aspect of the game has nothing to do with LFD, LFR, etc. and everything to do with the players. They want to place the blame on their lack of effort on Blizzard rather than looking in the mirror and blaming the real culprit... themselves.

How dare current 18 yr olds get to experience what we experience at 18! They must change it to focus on 36 years olds!

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I’m not even joking I saw a post on my server last night for a gdkp heroic setthik halls mount run where they were checking your gear at the stone.

One time I went to a pizza place and saw someone eating pineapple on pizza. That's disgusting so they should take it off the menu and no one should be allowed to eat it if they like it.

[Dadwen]

Perhaps consider working on your toxicity, given how many other people make friends when you struggle to.

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How dare current 18 yr olds get to experience what we experience at 18! They must change it to focus on 36 years olds!

Then maybe then they should release it just like they did the first time around if they want the same experience?