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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Dadwen View Post
    have or currently?
    Right now I'm playing on a high pop EU BC classic realm. If you think that's a gotcha, enjoy. I have played WoW since 2009 and seen the lot of it when it comes to full servers, dead servers, RP servers, full and dead private realms and dead classic servers too. I know it sucks to play on a dead realm. It doesn't take some great feat of imagination for anyone to realise that. I've given my opinion on the RDF and also recognized yours. I don't know why you want to harp on whether I play on dead realm right now or whether I used to. In fact I wrote earlier that I got a free transfer to high pop realms for all my classic (not played since vanilla classic) chars so you already know I don't play on a dead realm as of today. Do you think I would change my mind if I played on the deadest of dead BC classic realms right now? I've played on about 20 different servers over the years, everyone knows it sucks.

    It is especially weird that you want to go on about this oddly specific point when I recognized that RDF has its merits and solves some problems. I don't think it's a piece of trash system or unwarranted in retail. I've made my mind up by considering both points of view and choosing a position, fully aware that not everyone will agree or weight those points equally. We are, you know, just in disagreement.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Bianconeri View Post
    Right now I'm playing on a high pop EU BC classic realm. I have played WoW since 2009 and seen the lot of it when it comes to full servers, dead servers, RP servers, full and dead private realms and dead classic servers too. I know it sucks to play on a dead realm. It doesn't take some great feat of imagination for anyone to realise that. I've given my opinion on the RDF and also recognized yours. I don't know why you want to harp on whether I play on dead realm right now or whether I used to. In fact I wrote earlier that I got a free transfer to high pop realms for all my classic (not played since vanilla classic) chars so you already know I don't play on a dead realm as of today. Do you think I would change my mind if I played on the deadest of dead BC classic realms right now? I've played on about 20 different servers over the years, everyone knows it sucks.

    It is especially weird that you want to go on about this oddly specific point when I recognized that RDF has its merits and solves some problems. I don't think it's a piece of trash system or unwarranted in retail. I've made my mind up by considering both points of view and choosing a position, fully aware that not everyone will agree or weight those points equally. We are, you know, just in disagreement.
    Because it's easy to brush off it as a non issue (or major issue) when your not currently facing the issue.

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Bianconeri View Post
    Right now I'm playing on a high pop EU BC classic realm. If you think that's a gotcha, enjoy. I have played WoW since 2009 and seen the lot of it when it comes to full servers, dead servers, RP servers, full and dead private realms and dead classic servers too. I know it sucks to play on a dead realm. It doesn't take some great feat of imagination for anyone to realise that. I've given my opinion on the RDF and also recognized yours. I don't know why you want to harp on whether I play on dead realm right now or whether I used to. In fact I wrote earlier that I got a free transfer to high pop realms for all my classic (not played since vanilla classic) chars so you already know I don't play on a dead realm as of today. Do you think I would change my mind if I played on the deadest of dead BC classic realms right now? I've played on about 20 different servers over the years, everyone knows it sucks.

    It is especially weird that you want to go on about this oddly specific point when I recognized that RDF has its merits and solves some problems. I don't think it's a piece of trash system or unwarranted in retail. I've made my mind up by considering both points of view and choosing a position, fully aware that not everyone will agree or weight those points equally. We are, you know, just in disagreement.
    “Do you think I would change my mind if I were on the deadest of realms”

    Without even a fraction of a doubt, yes.

  4. #124
    The short answer is: It didn't.

    The social aspect of WoW and MMORPG's in general are guilds. They always have been.

    normal/heroic dungeons are not advanced content. they are basically faceroll (except for the 3 ICC dungeons on heroic upon 3.3 release).

    I can understand manually assembling groups for difficult/challenging content (see mythic+ on retail), but when you just want to grind out badges, manual assembly is just another hurdle you have to jump through to get your grind on.

    There was very little socializing in dungeon groups in classic and tbc classic. Blizzard thinks keeping RDF out of wotlk will enable people to establish lifelong friendships or some crap.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Dadwen View Post
    Because it's easy to brush off it as a non issue (or major issue) when your not currently facing the issue.


    You are talking about playing on a dead realm not living in a warzone mate. It's not some exotic harrowing experience only the dispossessed and downtrodden can understand. You are, at best, not reading my posts as I have not brushed it off, in fact I quite literally recognized your points. However, it has been understood for quite some time among the majority of the adult populace that when faced with a dilemma, compromises usually have to be made. It is commonly understood that when compromises are made, someone will be unhappy with the decision. That does not mean those who agree with the decision are ignorant of the other party's point of view. I've made up my mind as to which side of the issue I fall on, without writing off those who disagree.

    At this point you are really just throwing pebbles on the ocean, with this marking your final bounce.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Somic View Post
    “Do you think I would change my mind if I were on the deadest of realms”

    Without even a fraction of a doubt, yes.
    Well I guess that settles that.
    Last edited by Bianconeri; 2022-08-11 at 03:44 PM.

  6. #126
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    There is no social interaction in WoW classic as it is. You join a group, you say hey, you do the content, you leave. Maybe you get someone in party chat trying to start conversation and getting ignored. Maybe you want an enchant so you ask in trade chat and get auto invited instantly, maybe the person is even AFK. A++ social interaction.

    Quote Originally Posted by jkq View Post
    it didnt

    its just an excuse for people
    Basically this. It was just an excuse to shit on something that made the game more accessible for normal people.
    AchaeaKoralin - Are you still out there? | Classic Priest

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Bianconeri View Post
    You are talking about playing on a dead realm not living in a warzone mate. It's not some exotic harrowing experience only the dispossessed and downtrodden can understand. You are, at best, not reading my posts as I have not brushed it off, in fact I quite literally recognized your points. However, it has been understood for quite some time among the majority of the adult populace that when faced with a dilemma, compromises usually have to be made. It is commonly understood that when compromises are made, someone will be unhappy with the decision. That does not mean those who agree with the decision are ignorant of the other party's point of view. I've made up my mind as to which side of the issue I fall on, without writing off those who disagree.

    At this point you are really just throwing pebbles on the ocean, with this marking your final bounce.
    I'm talking about being able to play a game that should be fun and not work, and saying others can't have this fix because you don't need it seems selfish.

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by RoKPaNda View Post
    There is no social interaction in WoW classic as it is. You join a group, you say hey, you do the content, you leave. Maybe you get someone in party chat trying to start conversation and getting ignored. Maybe you want an enchant so you ask in trade chat and get auto invited instantly, maybe the person is even AFK. A++ social interaction.
    This runs contrary to my own experience and many of my friends. I've made more battle.net friends in TBC classic lvling through Azeroth than I have since Heroes of the Storm launched.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Bianconeri View Post
    This runs contrary to my own experience and many of my friends. I've made more battle.net friends in TBC classic lvling through Azeroth than I have since Heroes of the Storm launched.
    Now tell me how this is effected by RDF.

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Greyvax View Post
    The short answer is: It didn't.

    The social aspect of WoW and MMORPG's in general are guilds. They always have been.

    normal/heroic dungeons are not advanced content. they are basically faceroll (except for the 3 ICC dungeons on heroic upon 3.3 release).

    I can understand manually assembling groups for difficult/challenging content (see mythic+ on retail), but when you just want to grind out badges, manual assembly is just another hurdle you have to jump through to get your grind on.

    There was very little socializing in dungeon groups in classic and tbc classic. Blizzard thinks keeping RDF out of wotlk will enable people to establish lifelong friendships or some crap.
    Even down to the comment about the ICC 5mans, I was thinking the exact same thing.

    Blizzard: Well our community ruins our community, but how can we get out of explaining this?
    Blizzard: Assholes only exist because they were randomly assigned by a UI function rather than a response in trade chat.

    Simply put wow players now are not the same wow players from then and even if you try to force them to talk it's not going to change anything.

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by zugg zugg View Post
    Dungeons are literally the lowest form of social interaction in WoW. Dungeons require very little if any communication to kill bosses. Most people in dungeons are looking for a quick in and out.

    The fact it teleports you into the instance is such a small issue with the existence of flying and summoning. The proposed LFG tool doesn't fix any of the issues that RDF solves nor does it help foster "social interactions".

    These are none issues in Wrath Classic, RDF on it's own is a fantastic tool that solves a major issue with older and irrelevant content.
    The like you put in bold is one of the reasons why. If you weren’t there the first time around then I doubt you’ll understand, but it was certainly the start of the downfall of feeling like you were a part of a community. People became more disposable, because you could just kick or remove them and find a replacement literally in an instant, compared to having to go back out into the world and find someone through channels. There was much more communication if somebody did something wrong - you took time to explain what to do rather than just kicking and finding someone else. The begging of LFD tools became severely toxic and really started to erode the community.

  12. #132
    Did you ever raid at the time in pugs? We kicked people who didn't already know everything all the time.
    And what you think that now with 12 years of additional time to gain this knowledge we aren't going to do the same thing to a farther extent?

    I don't understand why people think toxic elitism isn't the issue they have a problem with. You would need to actually travel back to that time to experience a less toxic community. Not having RDF will not stop people from kicking you.

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by THEORACLE64 View Post
    The like you put in bold is one of the reasons why. If you weren’t there the first time around then I doubt you’ll understand, but it was certainly the start of the downfall of feeling like you were a part of a community. People became more disposable, because you could just kick or remove them and find a replacement literally in an instant, compared to having to go back out into the world and find someone through channels. There was much more communication if somebody did something wrong - you took time to explain what to do rather than just kicking and finding someone else. The begging of LFD tools became severely toxic and really started to erode the community.
    You know what here’s the thing, I don’t agree with it but I’ll grant you that RDF was the start of the downfall of the community.

    Here’s the thing, the community has already fallen. Removing RDF after it has already ruined the community isn’t going to somehow resurrect it. The meta of disposable people is here to stay. If you find someone in a group who is a nice person without RDF, you would have found that person just as nice with it. Same goes for an asshole. An asshole in RDF is just as much as an asshole without it today.

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by schwank05 View Post
    I know and it allowed me to level 3 characters to max level and have 5 fully raid geared going into CATA.
    How did the teleport thing 'allow' you to level chars or have 5 fully raid geared chars going into Cata?

    Were you prevented from playing the game without it? Or doing said activities?

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by hulkgor View Post
    How did the teleport thing 'allow' you to level chars or have 5 fully raid geared chars going into Cata?

    Were you prevented from playing the game without it? Or doing said activities?
    I believe in the context of this conversation he is saying that with the teleport thing it made it a lot more fun to level alts.

    Which he isn’t wrong tbh. Idk if you played back then but when it was released it was like blizzard made the best decision they have ever made in this game ever.

    It honestly was a lot of fun to make a new alt and que for dungeons nonstop with that tool when it first came out.

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Somic View Post
    Now tell me how this is effected by RDF.
    You are serving this up as if it, too, is some kind of gotcha. The answer is simple and, you would think, intuitive. The existence of a random dungeon finder is a disincentive to going out in the world and forming groups, because the RFD tool is simply much quicker and saves precious time. You are alluding to a bizarre misconception people have about those who prefer the classic style of dungeon grouping: that we do not care about meaningful and efficient character progression. If there was an RDF tool in BC Classic right now, I would be on it in a heartbeat. That doesn't mean I want it. The existence of a RDF virtually makes manually forming groups and travelling a ridiculous proposition. I don't form parties in classic to use them as a chat room, I do them to progress my character. That is the core of an MMO. I enjoy the classic style of progressing because it is, in my experience, more social and involved. That style of progression becomes obsolete with the implementation of a RDF.

    Of course, you can do whatever you want in an MMO. You can, in theory, take your lvl 20 retail toon and form a group manually to run any dungeon you like. However, that is in reality a non-option if you want to play the game effectively and is more akin to roleplaying than anything else. Don't make the mistake of thinking classic WoW has anything to do with roleplaying as a playstyle. The short answer is that RDF makes the playstyle of classic dungeoneering obsolete as it becomes heavily, heavily discouraged.

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by zugg zugg View Post
    Dungeons are literally the lowest form of social interaction in WoW. Dungeons require very little if any communication to kill bosses. Most people in dungeons are looking for a quick in and out.

    The fact it teleports you into the instance is such a small issue with the existence of flying and summoning. The proposed LFG tool doesn't fix any of the issues that RDF solves nor does it help foster "social interactions".

    These are none issues in Wrath Classic, RDF on it's own is a fantastic tool that solves a major issue with older and irrelevant content.
    In TBC my guild basically formed out of a few of us teaming up and running multiple dungeons and finding we had similar skill left and enjoyed each other’s company. So I disagree with anyone who says the social aspect was bad.

    With RFD you don’t need to build up those relationships or your reputation, and as a result it’s a bit of a race to the bottom in terms of some people’s behaviour.

    I mean, we argued this back in WotLK when it was released (previously it had been BGs only), but the WoW devs could not see the value of a good social setting, and went full steam ahead with random queuing and matchmaking. It wasn’t until really Legion and M+ that they seemed to realise that there were consequences for deleting realm-based communities and tried to row back on it for select activities.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I mean, if you are someone who doesn’t speak to other players and has no interest in playing with them again, then nothing the game does will stimulate social experiences for you. But for others who do, it can make a big difference.

  18. #138
    But that's like just your subjective opinion... man.
    Writes insightful, well-mannered posts in the Community Council.

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Peacemoon View Post

    I mean, if you are someone who doesn’t speak to other players and has no interest in playing with them again, then nothing the game does will stimulate social experiences for you. But for others who do, it can make a big difference.
    I agree whole-heartedly.

  20. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    "Community" is one of the biggest red herrings in WoW.

    People have this romantic ideal of five strangers meeting in trade chat, embarking on this glorious journey together, and emerging as friends from the experience. It's a WoW after-school special that, simply put, NEVER HAPPENS, and never did.

    The reality is that people have goals in mind, and they're getting together with other people to achieve those goals. This can be easier or harder, depending on the systems available. Making it harder doesn't suddenly melt the icy hearts of social isolates. It doesn't turn "OMG KICK THE NOOB" ragemongers into kinder, gentler people just because they now have to spend 20 minutes scouring chat and hopping on a flight path.

    All this does is extend the lifetime of content by limiting how many dungeons people can do, and the only ones benefiting from this are Blizzard. The fact that the "but muh COMMUUUNIITEEEEE" white knights are flocking to support the phantasmagoric illusion of some kind of illustrious "community" that we all now get to graciously be embraced by as Blizzard "saves players from themselves" by forcing them to waste time is nothing but a cruel, twisted irony.
    I’m sorry but you’re just so fucking wrong. Maybe you never made friends doing dungeons but i and many others did all the time. I still talk to a friend I made doing Gnomer in 2005 to this day lmfao. And yes actually people are forced to be nicer because they don’t want to be kicked and have to spend more time finding a group and flying to the dungeon.

    Your experience is yours. Don’t try to claim it was the only one. If you never made friends from that I’m sorry but that’s on you.

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