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  1. #141
    We weren't social before LFD either. You just were forced to hunt for people through trade if you wanted to pug. but 95% of gameplay was done with a guild group. Same as today. I don't pug, I run with guild members. LFD was a great leap

  2. #142
    I remember how social it was,
    LFM for raid!!
    Join up
    “Lol with that build and gear”
    Kicked.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Bianconeri View Post
    You are serving this up as if it, too, is some kind of gotcha. The answer is simple and, you would think, intuitive. The existence of a random dungeon finder is a disincentive to going out in the world and forming groups, because the RFD tool is simply much quicker and saves precious time.
    You are making it sound like it’s such an easy answer when you give an answer that isn’t at all based in reality. This is like saying “the homeless issue is such an easy answer if you think about it, just give them homes”.

    The RDF isn’t disincentivizing you from going out in the world and forming groups, because you aren’t going out in the world and forming groups anyway. You are not strolling around in the open world finding groups without RDF, you are sitting on your ass in a city staring at the LFG screen and either waiting for a LFM to pop up that matches the dungeon you are wanting to do or you are copying your post of “LFM MGT NEED TANK” and pasting it every 30 seconds are waiting for a whisper. You aren’t going out in the world to do shit.

    You are alluding to a bizarre misconception people have about those who prefer the classic style of dungeon grouping: that we do not care about meaningful and efficient character progression. If there was an RDF tool in BC Classic right now, I would be on it in a heartbeat. That doesn't mean I want it. The existence of a RDF virtually makes manually forming groups and travelling a ridiculous proposition. I don't form parties in classic to use them as a chat room, I do them to progress my character. That is the core of an MMO. I enjoy the classic style of progressing because it is, in my experience, more social and involved. That style of progression becomes obsolete with the implementation of a RDF.
    And that’s great if you think it’s more social, but here’s the thing, RDF does not make it less social. You and the people in your group are just as social with RDF than they are without it. The fact that your group is formed automatically for you does not instantly mean you are doomed to be less social.

    And just like you said if you aren’t there to chat, you are there to progress your character, then I have to ask again, where is the issue with RDF?

    The issues you have layed out just aren’t real. It’s not that I disagree with them or they don’t sound good but they just aren’t real at all. No one is going “out in the world” to form groups for dungeons. They sit in the lfg and they either spam or they filter through the spam in order to find a group. That’s not more social. Period.

    The short answer is that RDF makes the playstyle of classic dungeoneering obsolete as it becomes heavily, heavily discouraged.
    What does this even mean? The play style of dungeoneering? You mean spamming lfg chat? Oh Jesus Christ please god don’t take away my lfg chat spam skills man lol. Also, hate to burst your bubble but we are discussing wotlk. Wotlk you will still be forming specific groups for heroics whether or not RDF is in. There are achievements in heroic version you just simply aren’t getting done in RDF for example.

  4. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by theangryone View Post
    i remember how social it was,
    lfm for raid!!
    Join up
    “lol with that build and gear”
    kicked.
    "LFM ICC10 Norm 6000GS+ ONLY"

    Or the good old days of

    "LF2M TANK AND HEALER DAILY HEROIC T5 GEAR OR BETTER"
    We're all newbs, some are just more newbier than others.

    Just a burned out hardcore raider turned casual.
    I'm tired. So very tired. Can I just lay my head on your lap and fall asleep?
    #TeamFuckEverything

  5. #145
    kinda gives me a warm feeling that this post in the wow forms had more likes than the blue post that started the thread..
    https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...ons/1301550/27

    Granted that one's up vote is cool too. https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...ions/1301550/4
    Last edited by Dadwen; 2022-08-11 at 06:23 PM.

  6. #146
    In original wrath I had a dungeon group that was part of a guild. When RDF came in well into wrath, I started using it immediately for alts. It was more convenient - I played more than my dungeon group who tended to log on much later in the day which means I stayed up when at that time I used to start work very early in the morning. It did have a big impact on my social group and I know my friends were some what miffed. I did give feedback at the time that RDF had a an impact on social groups and it did.

    A decade and a half later and Im playing classic without my old friendship group. Im also playing a dps spec, where previously I played healers. I found getting groups in TBC a bit of a chore - but I expected that. I no longer expect to make firm friends from online games - I have too many friends as it is. I was looking forward to RDF in wrath because it was convenient and not dependent on people from my guild to be online at the same time. Times change - and mega PvE servers and modern behaviour do not create 'communities' that happened for me all that time ago. Ill probably swap to hybrid class so I can have as healer and a dps spec to facilitate access. I think the 'ruin social aspect' is a weak argument - my guess is they are trying to recruit a lot of classic players to the new retail expansion - and already a lot of classic players are noticing features that are attractive. A few months after the new retail expansion launches, my guess is RDF will be implemented on classic wrath servers.

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Somic View Post
    I’m not even joking I saw a post on my server last night for a gdkp heroic setthik halls mount run where they were checking your gear at the stone.
    Wow. Just wow. And I remember duo-ing Sethekk Halls mount runs as Feral Tank druid + rogue, during TBC. Brutal Gladiator's gear was simply that strong. But wow. I'm astounded. Imagine finding a druid from your guild and just asking him to run with you, like that rogue guildie of mine did during TBC, cause he wanted the mount.

  8. #148
    I have found two guilds by running dungeons with random people and asking to join theirs. And I had a number of contacts gained this way who I could call on for 5-mans.

    Don't assume everyone is unwilling or unable to be social for half an hour in a massively multiplayer game.

    Before RDF one had to make an effort not to be remembered as a tool.

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by schwank05 View Post
    IMO the best fix for the whole LFD thing would be to make it on a realm per realm basis each realm has its own LFG tool. The teleport thing is a must have IMO and this kills a lot of the fun in had in wrath originally just spamming LFG on my fresh characters to get geared to raid.
    Yet another thing that kills the scope of the world. Convenience isn't always good, sir.

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Flarelaine View Post
    I have found two guilds by running dungeons with random people and asking to join theirs. And I had a number of contacts gained this way who I could call on for 5-mans.

    Don't assume everyone is unwilling or unable to be social for half an hour in a massively multiplayer game.

    Before RDF one had to make an effort not to be remembered as a tool.
    create a toon on Westfall horde side, *friend was before unsubbing and see how well that goes.

  11. #151
    The best thing for blizzard to do would be:

    3.0 thru 3.2 (phase 1 thru 3) = No RDF/LFD

    3.3 (phase 4+) = LFD

    You know, exactly like how WotLK was back in the day? considering the purpose of wotlk classic is to re-live wotlk as it was.

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by Somic View Post
    You know what here’s the thing, I don’t agree with it but I’ll grant you that RDF was the start of the downfall of the community.

    Here’s the thing, the community has already fallen. Removing RDF after it has already ruined the community isn’t going to somehow resurrect it. The meta of disposable people is here to stay. If you find someone in a group who is a nice person without RDF, you would have found that person just as nice with it. Same goes for an asshole. An asshole in RDF is just as much as an asshole without it today.
    It really hadn’t at that point. It was still pretty strong after TBC. Wrath kinda put its little dinks in it with LFD, and then Cata floored it even more when LFR was introduced. After then it was never the same - people were just viewed as disposable and the system became setup to rapidly replace people in their spots.

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by THEORACLE64 View Post
    It really hadn’t at that point. It was still pretty strong after TBC. Wrath kinda put its little dinks in it with LFD, and then Cata floored it even more when LFR was introduced. After then it was never the same - people were just viewed as disposable and the system became setup to rapidly replace people in their spots.
    Yes but do you understand my point? The community is already dead. People just don’t play like that anymore on a broad scale. Removing the systems aren’t going to bring back the community to 2007 levels where everyone is heavily community oriented anymore, especially not with the mega servers we have now.

    So the only thing removing the RDF is doing now is just adding in an annoyance, it’s not solving or helping anything.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Flarelaine View Post
    I have found two guilds by running dungeons with random people and asking to join theirs. And I had a number of contacts gained this way who I could call on for 5-mans.

    Don't assume everyone is unwilling or unable to be social for half an hour in a massively multiplayer game.

    Before RDF one had to make an effort not to be remembered as a tool.
    Ok so let’s say RDF is connected just to your realm. What changes?

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by Somic View Post
    I believe in the context of this conversation he is saying that with the teleport thing it made it a lot more fun to level alts.

    Which he isn’t wrong tbh. Idk if you played back then but when it was released it was like blizzard made the best decision they have ever made in this game ever.

    It honestly was a lot of fun to make a new alt and que for dungeons nonstop with that tool when it first came out.
    Yes this is exactly what I was getting at, screw flying all over the planet on my newly dinged lvl 15 character now I can do deadmines as Horde or RFC as alliance. I can put on my heirlooms and hop in back then it was Vent and shoot the shit with a few friends and level an alt.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by arboachg View Post
    Yet another thing that kills the scope of the world. Convenience isn't always good, sir.
    It kills the scope of the world how? I play this game for Dungeons and raids and it has been that way since I stepped foot in Deadmines 17 years ago. It was at that moment that I realized that is all I want to do in the game is dungeons then I ran Karazhan for the first time and was like this is it this is the best gaming will ever be. I have never read the quest text of one quest, I skip almost all cutscenes and ignore almost all lore I just want to kill bosses and shoot the shit in Discord. AFKing on a 15min flight path or on auto flight to a dungeon in the middle of nowhere just to have a DPS leave mid run or God forbid a tank is neither fun nor is it convenient.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Greyvax View Post
    The best thing for blizzard to do would be:

    3.0 thru 3.2 (phase 1 thru 3) = No RDF/LFD

    3.3 (phase 4+) = LFD

    You know, exactly like how WotLK was back in the day? considering the purpose of wotlk classic is to re-live wotlk as it was.
    Yes this so much this Blood DPS.

  15. #155
    CRZ was the single biggest thing that ruined the social aspect of WoW, but I do understand why it was put into the game and see that there was no malicious intent behind its implementation. But still, it just means that there is no real community to build anymore. If you aren't in a guild, the game is basically just a series of quickplay queue formed events with people you most likely will never meet with again.

  16. #156
    Saying that RDF destroyed social interaction is implying that looking for dungeon groups is itself social interaction. I mean sure, it was social in a way, but social interaction wasn't the reason why these groups formed.

    That's not to say it can't be social interaction, but let's not kid ourselves - having to manually form groups and not acknowledging how time consuming it was (unless you're a tank, tank/healer, or healer combination) is part of the reason why it was social. Social interaction was tangential to the activity, not the main reason.

    Once a more convenient path opened up, no one in their right mind would put up with the contrivance of manually forming a group, and it fell to the wayside. Unintended side effect yes, but that's the consequence of a quality of life improvement.
    Whoever loves let him flourish. / Let him perish who knows not love. / Let him perish twice who forbids love. - Pompeii

  17. #157
    well instead writing /w inv pala healer you click a button those 3 words are foundation of social interaction!

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by Somic View Post
    Ok so let’s say RDF is connected just to your realm. What changes?
    What changes is that people known as, say, ninjalooters would still get a group.

    Or that I could not say "let's not take this dude, he threw a tantrum last time when he died charging a boss ahead of the tank".

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by Flarelaine View Post
    What changes is that people known as, say, ninjalooters would still get a group.

    Or that I could not say "let's not take this dude, he threw a tantrum last time when he died charging a boss ahead of the tank".
    not sure if regular ignore worked in LK never tested it, but they could easily add a ignore list to RDF, you run into someone bad you never group with them again, someone is really a arse they can enjoy the long queue times. *granted the paid rename or transfer just like on your server could wipe their slate clean.

  20. #160
    stop commenting please. OP has already been banned, the post he made was bait and you all fell for it.

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