How did RDF ruined the social aspect??.

[Dadwen]

They literally said in their response that originally they weren't going to allow faction changes but changed their mind based off of community feedback.

While it won’t be ready for our launch in September, we have changed our minds on this, and we’re working on adding the Race and Faction change as a paid service in a future patch.

Originally, we planned not to offer Race and Faction change at all, because it felt like it removed some of that fantasy feeling of having dramatically different physical attributes that affect your gameplay. We were also a little worried about players chasing the “flavor of the month” in terms of racial abilities However, we’re convinced by the argument that being able to play with your friends is more important, and that you should be able to bring your accomplishments with you when you do. This turns out to be the same tradeoff provided by transferring between realms, which is already available as a paid service, so it makes sense to make the same decision with respect to Race and Faction change.

In short, this fits our aim to nurture and protect social experiences, so we’ll work on it for an upcoming patch.

If they're truly only motivated by money why the fuck would they say that?

Guess that feedback made them open their eye$$.....

But I'm sure they are sooooo concerned they will let people do it for free... .right...right?

[Relapses]

Guess that feedback made them open their eye$$.....

But I'm sure they are sooooo concerned they will let people do it for free... .right...right?

It wouldn't make much sense for them to offer a service that's currently paid in retail for free in Classic.

[Itisamuh]

"Community" is one of the biggest red herrings in WoW.

People have this romantic ideal of five strangers meeting in trade chat, embarking on this glorious journey together, and emerging as friends from the experience. It's a WoW after-school special that, simply put, NEVER HAPPENS, and never did.

The reality is that people have goals in mind, and they're getting together with other people to achieve those goals. This can be easier or harder, depending on the systems available. Making it harder doesn't suddenly melt the icy hearts of social isolates. It doesn't turn "OMG KICK THE NOOB" ragemongers into kinder, gentler people just because they now have to spend 20 minutes scouring chat and hopping on a flight path.

All this does is extend the lifetime of content by limiting how many dungeons people can do, and the only ones benefiting from this are Blizzard. The fact that the "but muh COMMUUUNIITEEEEE" white knights are flocking to support the phantasmagoric illusion of some kind of illustrious "community" that we all now get to graciously be embraced by as Blizzard "saves players from themselves" by forcing them to waste time is nothing but a cruel, twisted irony.

Very accurate post, though I will add that people in general were friendlier back in the day. But I think it had nothing to do with the lack of community ruining tools, or whatever other excuse people use, and more to do with the simple fact that the game was newer, nobody really knew what they were doing, and thus expectations were low. I remember in my guild there was a guy who put every single talent point into arms. When politely asked why, he said he wanted to be an arms warrior, and that was that. He neither knew, nor cared, whether it was optimal to do so, and the rest of us were fine with that.

[alturic]

Spoiler Alert: current dungeons are "less talky more killy" times

TBCH, I don't really remember having a ball in 2004, 2006, 2008, etc with chattin' it up in dungeons. I remember things like tank/healer (whoever was leading) marking and giving a brief comment before a boss pull, but not much more.

I do like the idea of the old LGF (being server-based), and while they won't regress back to that, I don't understand people's fascination with wanting to chat it up with strangers in a dungeon.

[Dadwen]

It wouldn't make much sense for them to offer a service that's currently paid in retail for free in Classic.

well in the context of my first comment they were talking about having a bad rep and it matters (why any Cross realm is bad) yet for a few bucks you can have it all squeaky clean.

*reputation matters... but for a few bucks it can be wiped clean for $$ so not sure whats your issue with my statement.

RDF bad and hurts the community\paid faction\race\name changes ok and listening to the community.

so ya they are only motivated by money... if the community rep really mattered they would not have offered it at all.

[Nerph-]

well in the context of my first comment they were talking about having a bad rep and it matters (why any Cross realm is bad) yet for a few bucks you can have it all squeaky clean.

*reputation matters... but for a few bucks it can be wiped clean for $$ so not sure whats you're issue is with my statement.

RDF bad and hurts the community\paid faction\race\name changes ok and listening to the community.

so ya they are only motivated by money...

It's also a win-win for them in the sense they can say the community wanted it (race & faction changes) and also charge money for it.

[Biomega]

Very accurate post, though I will add that people in general were friendlier back in the day. But I think it had nothing to do with the lack of community ruining tools, or whatever other excuse people use, and more to do with the simple fact that the game was newer, nobody really knew what they were doing, and thus expectations were low.

That's very important to point out, thanks!

Times change, and so do people's expectations - that's normal, and to be expected. Also, gaming in general has evolved a lot, and people are much more used to getting things on demand. With an overabundance of things to play, asking someone to do things like just sit in chat for 30 minutes or whatever is not conducive to player retention; at least not in the same way it might have been acceptable in 2005.

[Dadwen]

It's also a win-win for them in the sense they can say the community wanted it (race & faction changes) and also charge money for it.

kinda my point if they could make bucks of RDF it would be added in a heartbeat, not having it helps their greed people on low and lopsided servers have to pay if they want to enjoy the same game as everyone (friend played on Westfall horde side and most of the time there were not enough people on the horde side other than max level to even put a dungeon group together (even on Max level it was slim pick-ins, they unsubbed last month and kinda made me decide not to play).

[Polybius]

Dungeons were faceroll in WotLK so the interaction declined, many have left this out. LFD/RF facilitated group formation; you don’t make friends in LFG chat.

Before WotLK: you had to coordinate and explore a dungeon, didn’t need to deal with Personal Loot, adds and bosses had pull strats, class rotations were more about survival than pewpew burn, and you shared buffs, info, and had the opportunity to give away loot.

[Lochton]

Dungeons are literally the lowest form of social interaction in WoW. Dungeons require very little if any communication to kill bosses. Most people in dungeons are looking for a quick in and out.

The fact it teleports you into the instance is such a small issue with the existence of flying and summoning. The proposed LFG tool doesn't fix any of the issues that RDF solves nor does it help foster "social interactions".

These are none issues in Wrath Classic, RDF on it's own is a fantastic tool that solves a major issue with older and irrelevant content.

It didn't ruin the social aspect. The damage to the social aspect happened because of the players. The creation and implementation of LFD were great and needed, and even so, helped social interaction a lot for me at least.

[klaps_05]

"Community" is one of the biggest red herrings in WoW.

Community for me, but not for thee. Gatekeeping others to feel more special is as old as time.

[Relapses]

well in the context of my first comment they were talking about having a bad rep and it matters (why any Cross realm is bad) yet for a few bucks you can have it all squeaky clean.

*reputation matters... but for a few bucks it can be wiped clean for $$ so not sure whats your issue with my statement.

RDF bad and hurts the community\paid faction\race\name changes ok and listening to the community.

so ya they are only motivated by money... if the community rep really mattered they would not have offered it at all.

This is a pointlessly cynical way of looking at it. Clearly there were reasons other than money at play here because if it were just about money they would have never said they had no plans to add it in the first place. (This is going back months, well before the Blue post I quoted.) If you break down anything in this game, everything is ultimately about money if you think about it... there's a fucking subscription for this game. But sometimes the developers are indeed only acting on community driven impulses and casually writing off literally everything they do as being motivated solely by cash paints them in an unnecessarily pessimistic light.

[Aleksej89]

dont feed flamebait account

[Dadwen]

This is a pointlessly cynical way of looking at it. Clearly there were reasons other than money at play here because if it were just about money they would have never said they had no plans to add it in the first place. (This is going back months, well before the Blue post I quoted.) If you break down anything in this game, everything is ultimately about money if you think about it... there's a fucking subscription for this game. But sometimes the developers are indeed only acting on community driven impulses and casually writing off literally everything they do as being motivated solely by cash paints them in an unnecessarily pessimistic light.

As I said seems there was enough feedback to open their eye$... and it's more important than community rep... (which what was my first comment was about).

Funny I've played 4 or 5 MMO's with a number of friends and never ended up on a different faction magically that I had the need for a paid faction\server\NAME change.

[Utrrabbit]

no. the teleport thing is not a must. You just want it because you're lazy. Play retail if you want to be lazy.

- - - Updated - - -

have you been living under a rock? Blizzard has specifically said they are going to come up with a system that rewards you for doing heroics later on. Obviously it's not needed at the start of Wrath.

That is the biggest strawman reply I have ever read.

"You are lazy because you do not want to wait 15minutes in a flight path being afk instead of running the dungeon"

Reall....yeah you're smart.

[Dadwen]

That is the biggest strawman reply I have ever read.

"You are lazy because you do not want to wait 15minutes in a flight path being afk instead of running the dungeon"

Reall....yeah you're smart.

It does help with the less used lower dungeons and let other factions run ones they normally could not, (not sure those lower level are going to fight their way though stormwind or org to easily).

[Relapses]

As I said seems there was enough feedback to open their eye$... and it's more important than community rep... (which what was my first comment was about).

Funny I've played 4 or 5 MMO's with a number of friends and never ended up on a different faction magically that I had the need for a paid faction\server\NAME change.

Okay, and that same MMO may have 600 fucking items on its cash shop and a literal $40 fucking whale mount. Different strokes, different folks; but don't pretend one version of capitalism is somehow more wholesome than another.

[Dadwen]

Okay, and that same MMO may have 600 fucking items on its cash shop and a literal $40 fucking whale mount. Different strokes, different folks; but don't pretend one version of capitalism is somehow more wholesome than another.

then don't pretend it's all about the "community"....

*all the feed back they needed to change their minds were the $$ of the people asking for it to be added nothing else. (anyone that thinks they seen the light and now offering it out of the goodness of their hearts, I have great deal on a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you).

[Deferionus]

Dungeons are literally the lowest form of social interaction in WoW. Dungeons require very little if any communication to kill bosses. Most people in dungeons are looking for a quick in and out.

The fact it teleports you into the instance is such a small issue with the existence of flying and summoning. The proposed LFG tool doesn't fix any of the issues that RDF solves nor does it help foster "social interactions".

These are none issues in Wrath Classic, RDF on it's own is a fantastic tool that solves a major issue with older and irrelevant content.

Did you play WoW prior to the implementation of the dungeon finder and cross server? In TBC, I had a huge friends list which were all people I met doing dungeons and arenas. After RFD implementation in Wrath, I cannot recall having added a single person to my friends list that I met in a dungeon since then. While it was inconvenient to find people manually to run dungeons, the fact is, when you had good experiences with people, you would add them to your friends list and coordinate doing future dungeons with them. After doing a few dungeons together you build a relationship. Dungeon finder you just leave and the game matches you with random people you aren't likely to run into again.

The last friends I made in retail WoW was in Cataclysm. A decade and I have not made any new connections. Want to know what's funny? I have people on my battle.net I met in classic. The vanilla version of the game was engineered in a way that put the world and social connections at the forefront and ultimately those things will make for a better MMO. If you want something fast paced and a lobby game there are games out there better designed for that.

[munkeyinorbit]

Cross realm groups destroyed the community. You no longer had to worry about being an asshat because you were never going to see those players again.

Totally different thing if you got blasted on trade chat for Ninja looting and get blacklisted on whole server.

Hahahahahaha.

Oh. I'm sorry. You were serious about these "blacklists"? No one cared that people ninja looted then and they don't now. There were a few butthurt people having a go in chat but it's all just entertainment.

People are asshats within a server or in cross realm. LFD only "changed" your perception because you ran more dungeons