How did RDF ruined the social aspect??.

[kranur]

I don't give two shits of the intent, I give a shit why the feature I want is tooooo retailish an can't be put in, but the feature they want to put in more-so from retail is ok.

ya it (same as a teleport is ok if it's for PVP) is but you have too much of bliz's back side in your eyes to notice.

If you go ahead and read their interviews, they have already stated multiple times that they want to keep the classic versions centered around having to communicate and make connections. It has nothing to do with retail feature or not.

[Dadwen]

If you go ahead and read their interviews, they have already stated multiple times that they want to keep the classic versions centered around having to communicate and make connections. It has nothing to do with retail feature or not.

right someone there didn't say "play retail" if you wanted that feature (which is still the most moronic thing they could say), hmmm wonder who said that, and in the last interview it sounded like they wanted to milk people $$ longer by slowing them down more than "my community feels"....

[Relapses]

I don't give two shits of the intent, I give a shit why the feature I want is tooooo re-tailish an can't be put in, but the feature they want to put in more-so from retail is ok.

ya it is but you have too much of bliz's back side in your eyes to notice.

If H+ didn't exist, players returning for Ulduar would be almost completely hosed because they'd be forced to try to get gear in Naxx... a raid which nearly nobody would be interested in running after Ulduar's release. Instead of letting this significant portion of playerbase simply get fucked, they introduced a way for the gear from Naxx to be available as a catch-up. This is problem-solving by preventing a terrible game experience for players returning specifically to experience Ulduar, not hypocrisy.

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right someone there didn't say "play retail" if you wanted that feature (which is still the most moronic thing they could say), hmmm wonder who said that, and in the last interview it sounded like they wanted to milk people $$ longer by slowing them down more than "my community feels"....

This is such a dumb fucking take. People weren't saying this when Classic didn't have the RDF. They weren't saying this when TBC didn't have the RDF. But suddenly because WotLK doesn't have the RDF, they are? Like I've said multiple times in this thread, this really seems like you're mad Mr. Blizzard said no than you are that the RDF isn't being added.

[Dadwen]

If H+ didn't exist, players returning for Ulduar would be almost completely hosed because they'd be forced to try to get gear in Naxx... a raid which nearly nobody would be interested in running after Ulduar's release. Instead of letting this significant portion of playerbase simply get fucked, they introduced a way for the gear from Naxx to be available as a catch-up. This is problem-solving by preventing a terrible game experience for players returning specifically to experience Ulduar, not hypocrisy.

Right, keep telling people we can't have stuff because it's too retail and to go play the shit retail game and then pull idea from retail into it, ya no fucking hypocrisy at all, and again I'll repeat I don't don't don't give a shit of the reasons.

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This is such a dumb fucking take. People weren't saying this when Classic didn't have the RDF. They weren't saying this when TBC didn't have the RDF. But suddenly because WotLK doesn't have the RDF, they are? Like I've said multiple times in this thread, this really seems like you're mad Mr. Blizzard said no than you are that the RDF isn't being added.

oh ya I forgot those had RDF ummmmmmmmm wait a second..... durrr....

[Relapses]

Right, keep telling people we can't have stuff because it's too retail and to go play the shit retail game and then pull idea from retail into it, ya no fucking hypocrisy at all, and again I'll repeat I don't don't don't give a shit of the reasons.

So you'd rather Blizzard not problem solve, provide a dogshit experience for a bunch of players then let the game's population severely diminish because you simply can't cope with the developers repackaging a feature from retail?

That's cute.

oh ya I forgot those had RDF ummmmmmmmm wait a second..... durrr....

I was talking about the dogshit argument you're trying to make. If the lack of the RDF is only to "milk $$" then it stands to reason that players would have had the same exact sentiments in both Classic and TBC. And yet in spite of this both of these expansions have been plenty successful in their own rights. You don't have an argument, you just have entitlement. You want something and you're upset because Mr. Blizzard said you don't get it.

[Dadwen]

So you'd rather Blizzard not problem solve, provide a dogshit experience for a bunch of players then let the game's population severely diminish because you simply can't cope with the developers repackaging a feature from retail?

That's cute.



I was talking about the dogshit argument you're trying to make. If the lack of the RDF is only to "milk $$" then it stands to reason that players would have had the same exact sentiments in both Classic and TBC. And yet in spite of this both of these expansions have been plenty successful in their own rights. You don't have an argument, you just have entitlement. You want something and you're upset because Mr. Blizzard said you don't get it.

I see where you're coming form as long as they "fix" your problem but fuck all everyone else's problems that RFD did solve (odd playing hours, lower dungeons not being run later, low pop or unbalanced servers....

(what I can't "cope" in your words is them with one face saying can't have this feature because it's "retail" but you can have this feature we got from retail from the other face).

ya cute...

right maybe because it was not a system in classic or BC so it was not expected in those, but expecting it in LK that had the system seeing as many people wanted it to be like it was the first fucking time around and it would have been hypocritical to ask for it in those (hypocrisy is something you and blizz don't seem to understand that's for sure). (granted maybe if they had it they would not have the server fucked as as bad as they are but that's just a guess) .... just maybe why it was not asked for as much hmmmmmmmmm could be...

Only dogshit here is your defending of blizzard.

[Relapses]

I see where you're coming form as long as they "fix" your problem but fuck all everyone else's problems that RFD did solve (odd playing hours, lower dungeons not being run later, low pop or unbalanced servers....

ya cute...

right maybe because it was not a system in classic or BC so it was not expected in those, but expecting it in LK that had the system seeing as many people wanted it to be like it was the first fucking time around and it would have been hypocritical to ask for it in those (hypocrisy is something you and blizz don't seem to understand that's for sure). (granted maybe if they had it they would not have the server fucked as as bad as they are but that's just a guess) .... just maybe why it was not asked for as much hmmmmmmmmm could be...

Only dogshit here is your defending of blizzard.

I can't blame you for not being here for it but there was a Classic megathread on this forum before Classic was announced. In that thread were thousands and thousands of individual takes about how and why "modern Blizzard" had strayed from the vision that these players felt was important to Classic. In this thread of thousands of takes there was only one universal truth: The RDF is when Blizzard strayed away from their "old" vision. It was a demarcation point between "old" and "modern" Blizzard. This is where the game started to go downhill because it eliminated one of the key social fabrics which these displaced players sought. This feedback was echoed in almost every discussion chamber about Classic before it existed. The RDF, while nice, is a feature that pushes the design direction away from social interaction and towards convenience. Nobody is arguing that the convenience isn't nice to have, I've said multiple times that I'd use it if it were to return. But it is something that, on a fundamental level, changes the way the game is played. It pushes the needle ever-so-slightly in the direction of design choices which ultimately prompted the huge displacement of players who wanted Classic in the first place. (Do we stop at the RDF?) Because of that, it's important for Blizzard not to add something like this back into the game. None of this is "Blizzard bootlicking." It's simply understanding that despite the RDF's advantages there are certain features which simply do not jive with the design ethos behind Classic.

[Dadwen]

I can't blame you for not being here for it but there was a Classic megathread on this forum before Classic was announced. In that thread were thousands and thousands of individual takes about how and why "modern Blizzard" had strayed from the vision that these players felt was important to Classic. In this thread of thousands of takes there was only one universal truth: The RDF is when Blizzard strayed away from their "old" vision. It was a demarcation point between "old" and "modern" Blizzard. This is where the game started to go downhill because it eliminated one of the key social fabrics which these displaced players sought. This feedback was echoed in almost every discussion chamber about Classic before it existed. The RDF, while nice, is a feature that pushes the design direction away from social interaction and towards convenience. Nobody is arguing that the convenience isn't nice to have, I've said multiple times that I'd use it if it were to return. But it is something that, on a fundamental level, changes the way the game is played. It pushes the needle ever-so-slightly in the direction of design choices which ultimately prompted the huge displacement of players who wanted Classic in the first place. (Do we stop at the RDF?) Because of that, it's important for Blizzard not to add something like this back into the game. None of this is "Blizzard bootlicking." It's simply understanding that despite the RDF's advantages there are certain features which simply do not jive with the design ethos behind the game.

Game went "down hill" chasing people off, in Cata when they tried not to cater to more casual players, the old "Vision" was catering to casuals it was the reason wow kicked off in the first place it the very reason it was born, I was there and came from EQ, I ran dungeons before RDF and after and it didn't do jack to the social fabric of anything. (I know more people left due to scaling and class changes that any "social crap" people come up with).

*none of this takes away them being two faced on a number of their decisions on LK classic PVE Vs PVP teleporting, not making it retail and still taking ideas from retail...

[Relapses]

Game went "down hill" chasing people off, in Cata when they tried not to cater to more casual players, the old "Vision" was catering to casuals it was the reason wow kicked off in the first place it the very reason it was born, I was there and came from EQ, I ran dungeons before RDF and after and it didn't do jack to the social fabric of anything. (I know more people left due to scaling and class changes that any "social crap" people come up with).

*none of this takes away them being two faced on a number of their decisions on LK classic PVE Vs PVP teleporting, not making it retail and still taking ideas from retail...

Cataclysm -- the expansion that simplified the leveling experience and brought us the LFR -- was trying not to cater to casual players. Yep. Very compelling argument.

Again, you don't have an argument. You have your personal opinion and a ridiculous sense of entitlement. The fact remains: H+ is not M+ and the RDF not being added has absolutely nothing to do with "ignoring the playerbase."

End of discussion.

[Dadwen]

Cataclysm -- the expansion that simplified the leveling experience and brought us the LFR -- was trying not to cater to casual players. Yep. Very compelling argument.

Again, you don't have an argument. You have your personal opinion and a ridiculous sense of entitlement. The fact remains: H+ is not M+ and the RDF not being added has absolutely nothing to do with "ignoring the playerbase."

End of discussion.

lets see where did LFR come in at oh ya at the end.... , and what was the biggest complaint at the start of Cata and what did they have to nerf Hmmmmmmm......

Ignoring the player base is blizzards defining characteristics for some time now.

End if who-it's, what giving up going for that gold text on the bliz forums already?

[Relapses]

lets see where did LFR come in at oh ya at the end.... , and what was the biggest complaint at the start of Cata and what did they have to nerf Hmmmmmmm......

Ignoring the player base is blizzards defining characteristics for some time now.

End if who-it's, what giving up going for that gold text on the bliz forums already?

You do realize the reason that Cata Heroics had to be nerfed is because of the RDF, right? Queueable difficult content is not something that works in this game. That's an argument against the addition of the RDF, lmfao.

Also, "ignoring the playerbase" is the kind of room temperature IQ take that you see endlessly repeated on forums because players feel like the onus should be on the developers to explain every single fucking thing they do or don't do in the game. Instead of, y'know, developing the fucking game. There is nuance to game design and all of that is lost when you try to break everything down to binary yes/no or good/bad paradigms.

[Thes]

RDF removes the little commitment you have to put in and that's not ideal.

[Dadwen]

You do realize the reason that Cata Heroics had to be nerfed is because of the RDF, right? Queueable difficult content is not something that works in this game. That's an argument against the addition of the RDF, lmfao.

Also, "ignoring the playerbase" is the kind of room temperature IQ take that you see endlessly repeated on forums because players feel like the onus should be on the developers to explain every single fucking thing they do or don't do in the game. Instead of, y'know, developing the fucking game. There is nuance to game design and all of that is lost when you try to break everything down to binary yes/no or good/bad paradigms.

Hmm so trying to make things difficult worked out well for them then (making things harder for no reason goes against that oh so classic vision you were taking about that was at the birth of WOW).... Funny RDF seemed to work really really well in Wrath the first time (system seems to work in other games too)....

"ignoring the playerbase" right that's why they keep re-inventing the fucking wheel again (everything but the wheel the players are asking for) the borrowed powers crap, why we ended up with all the memes on the forum's \ think you do don't crap \ rip cord crap \ we'd rather you not\ and how many other meme's *they exist for a reason, how do you think they got started on the forums in the first place.

And most people were not asking them to "develop classic" we were asking them to release something that was already developed and just not fuck it up.....

If I thought their development was worth a shit I'd be playing retail....

you sure you don't work for them "End of discussion." my ass, you're about as honest at them.

[Relapses]

Hmm so trying to make things difficult worked out well for them then (making things harder for no reason goes against that oh so classic vision you were taking about that was at the birth of WOW).... Funny RDF seemed to work really really well in Wrath the first time (system seems to work in other games too)....

"ignoring the playerbase" right that's why they keep re-inventing the fucking wheel again (everything but the wheel the players are asking for) the borrowed powers crap, why we ended up with all the memes on the forum's \ think you do don't crap \ rip cord crap \ we'd rather you not\ and how many other meme's *they exist for a reason, how do you think they got started on the forums in the first place.

And most people were not asking them to "develop classic" we were asking them to release something that was already developed and just not fuck it up.....

The playerbase in 2022 is different than it was in 2008. Pretending it is or that just re-releasing the same exact fucking product wouldn't be a commercial disaster is the kind of narrow-minded nonsense anybody with critical thinking skills above that of a kindergartener understands. Changes are necessary. If you want a truly #NoChanges experience just find a private server. (Though, ironically, the most popular one these days could best be described as #OnlyChanges lol.)

[Dadwen]

The playerbase in 2022 is different than it was in 2008. Pretending it is or that just re-releasing the same exact fucking product wouldn't be a commercial disaster is the kind of narrow-minded nonsense anybody with critical thinking skills above that of a kindergartener understand. Changes are necessary. If you want a truly #NoChanges experience just find a private server.

right changes by the same people that have chased so many from retail WOW, great plan... if they could develop worth a shit I'd be playing retail...
*they think it needed changes they can make a SOM version I heard the BC version of that went well.......

If you want a truly #NoChanges experience just find a private server.

careful might lose some of those brownie points...

*Hmm you're think if there was no market for the original experience those servers would not have lasted very long... .

[Relapses]

right changes by the same people that have chased so many from retail WOW, great plan... if they could develop worth a shit I'd be playing retail...
*they think it needed changes they can make a SOM version I heard the BC version of that went well.......

careful might lose some of those brownie points...

*Hmm you're think if there was no market for the original experience those servers would not have lasted very long... .

What are you even talking about here? There weren't any TBC SoM servers. The Vanilla Classic SoM server has had a pretty dedicated population and the whole "Iron Man Challenge" thing was pretty successful at launch. Are you talking about Classic Era realms? The realms that players said would stay popular because Classic was such an unmitigated masterpiece and then died less than a month after release?

[Dadwen]

What are you even talking about here? There weren't any TBC SoM servers. The Vanilla Classic SoM server has had a pretty dedicated population and the whole "Iron Man Challenge" thing was pretty successful at launch. Are you talking about Classic Era realms? The realms that players said would stay popular because Classic was such an unmitigated masterpiece and then died less than a month after release?

I might have misread the SOM BC and with them being able to transfer to LK but from the forums\reddit the biggest complaint about them is being pretty much dead, (seems blizzard making changes don't make for a very long lived community either, maybe let LK rest on it's own merit before screwing it up with a SOM\hack job on it), ya trust the Dev's right - looks like they have two servers left in the US and looks to be on life support - Jom Gabbar & Shadowstrike

*if vanilla population cutting out is anything like BC dropping, me and a few others ran off because blizzard can't manage server population worth a shit, I was planing on coming back to LK due to being able run dungeons at least with RDF (since it seems your hero's at bliz don't seem to give two shits about people stuck on those servers). be interesting how the while one sided server\mega server thing works out with LK (your dreaming if you don't think RDF would not have helped server populations some).

If they think their changes in LK were for making a better game they should have made some SOM LK servers and left LK along for the rest of us..

and as far as the audience and you're private server quip if people didn't want to play them how have they lasted so long? (read even some of them tried the no RDF and it didn't work out too well for them).

[Relapses]

and as far as the audience and you're private server quip if people didn't want to play them how have they lasted so long? (read even some of them tried the no RDF and it didn't work out too well for them).

I wonder why people would want to play WoW for $0/mo. I guess we'll never know, eh?

[Dadwen]

I wonder why people would want to play WoW for $0/mo. I guess we'll never know, eh?

wonder why Blizzard would chase those away that would be willing to pay for the same thing hmmmmm

[Relapses]

wonder why Blizzard would chase those away that would be willing to pay for the same thing hmmmmm

Yeah, because nobody's ever quit WoW for any other reason than because they were "chased away." It's perfectly normal for players to pay $15/mo to play a game for twenty fucking years.