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  1. #221
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    I've found that really werid too - i mean, it's quite something enchanting tos ee a group rise and improve, but the most powerful is how you swing back up after a terrible knock, the harder the knock the greater and more powerful would the improvements seem
    There's a lot of missed context in that argument, I would say - hinging both on what one labels a "tragedy" and how one defines "building." Referring to the deaths of NPCs, for example, Varian's death led to a lot of new movements within the Alliance, including Anduin's ascension to High King and a strengthening of the bonds between the Alliance leaders heading into BfA and Shadowlands. The major issue for this new revelation in Dragonflight, at least in my opinion, is that the tragedy (the loss of Malfurion to Ardenweald) doesn't really build anything for the Night Elves who are offering the sacrifice, but rather for the Green Dragonflight who gets their Aspect back in the form of Ysera. While I would consider that "building" from a narrative standpoint, or at least rebuilding, it's a net loss for the Kaldorei, who've already lost more than their share, IMO.
    WHAT CAN THE HARVEST HOPE FOR, IF NOT THE CARE OF THE REAPER MAN?. - Terry Pratchett, Reaper Man

  2. #222
    There also isn't really much of interest than can come from Malfurion going away, as Tyrande has still always been the de facto leader of the Night Elves and Malfurion has been more Cenarion Circle than Night Elf (save for Darkshore and him being a world boss in Darnassus). Very little will change with him gone, other than maybe the introduction of a new Nelf druid leader (maybe this is the plan??)

  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post

    Cant wait for hes revival quest, oooo Tyrande where are you my LoVe???!!!
    Wait people still think that was Malfurion and not Xavius fucking with Tyrande?

  4. #224
    Interesting how a couple years ago Malfurion was kicking the shit out a certain someone before getting an axe to the back and now when a person obsessed with that walking corpse is fully in control he quickly kills Malfurion off.

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    Interesting how a couple years ago Malfurion was kicking the shit out a certain someone before getting an axe to the back and now when a person obsessed with that walking corpse is fully in control he quickly kills Malfurion off.
    Bad things have happened to Malfurion under two writing directors now. This isn't a personal thing, this has to do with Blizzard's overall goals for the Night Elf story.

    Tyrande even makes DIRECT REFERENCE to all the bad things that have happened to Nelves lately, so they are fully aware of how people will take this.
    Last edited by Cheezits; 2022-08-11 at 04:20 PM.

  6. #226
    Well, Malfurian is a dude and if we know anything by recent media releases, dudes have to be inept or dudes gotta go. Plus he’s a Nelf and Blizz seems to have a hate boner for them.

  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    Interesting how a couple years ago Malfurion was kicking the shit out a certain someone before getting an axe to the back and now when a person obsessed with that walking corpse is fully in control he quickly kills Malfurion off.
    Not unlike the minute that obsessed guy had any say whatsoever, suddenly Garrosh saying "bitch" was going to corrupt the children and had to be removed. Never mind the vivisections, experiments on living sentients, souls burned as fuel, torture, genocide, slavery... What matters is the waifu must not be insulted.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex86el View Post
    "Orc want, orc take." and "Orc dissagrees, orc kill you to win argument."
    Quote Originally Posted by Toho View Post
    The Horde is basically the guy that gets mad that the guy that they just beat the crap out of had the audacity to bleed on them.
    Why no, people don't just like Sylvie for T&A: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ery-Cinematic/

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    There's a lot of missed context in that argument, I would say - hinging both on what one labels a "tragedy" and how one defines "building." Referring to the deaths of NPCs, for example, Varian's death led to a lot of new movements within the Alliance, including Anduin's ascension to High King and a strengthening of the bonds between the Alliance leaders heading into BfA and Shadowlands. The major issue for this new revelation in Dragonflight, at least in my opinion, is that the tragedy (the loss of Malfurion to Ardenweald) doesn't really build anything for the Night Elves who are offering the sacrifice, but rather for the Green Dragonflight who gets their Aspect back in the form of Ysera. While I would consider that "building" from a narrative standpoint, or at least rebuilding, it's a net loss for the Kaldorei, who've already lost more than their share, IMO.
    It was exactly the same in the War of THorns, the night elf tragedy gained them nothing, it is stormwind that saw the increased focus, the breakthrough etc, in fact, if the fans, esp the night elf fans hadn't been so incensed by it all, they'd have completely been lost in the hore's anger at it's yet again villainsation and the humans would have collected the benefits from the night elf tragedy - as "an alliance gain for an allianc eloss", and all the focus would have once more gone into appeasing the horde fans.

    The horde fans had legitimate reason to be upset, fact - but it was quite telling that the night elves were not even a secondary concern until the fans got so annoyed. It meant they fuilly intended to throw them under the bus again and just dump all the gains as alliance gains under humans.

    Sacrificing the night elves for the green dragonflight is exactly the repeat of the same thing, once again - they don't improve, or when they do, they get a bone and aren't seen to improve in any noticeable or more importantly, significantly anad long lasting way. Compare what the night elves (3 extensive tragedies later) have come out compared to say humans, orcs, blood elves who've seen massive improvements after thier tragedies

    I wonder what the night elves had left o take way , but they found something for WoT, and then now it seems they keep finding again.

    You're right about it serving no purpose, but I do believe I contextualise what I mean by tragedy and building specifically referring or using the night elves as prime example. Theya re not unique int his, but they are the most affected by this.

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    There also isn't really much of interest than can come from Malfurion going away, as Tyrande has still always been the de facto leader of the Night Elves and Malfurion has been more Cenarion Circle than Night Elf (save for Darkshore and him being a world boss in Darnassus). Very little will change with him gone, other than maybe the introduction of a new Nelf druid leader (maybe this is the plan??)
    Not that Tyrande's reaction matters either. Throughout this arc of supposed Madness Tyrande Malfurion did nothing to calm her down. So it's not a support or something.
    In any case, Shandris had to die.

    So this either leads us either to nothing or to an equally useless Night Warrior 2.0

  10. #230
    Malfurion's death as a concept is okay but not like this. Blizz being retarded again.

  11. #231
    Immortal Frozen Death Knight's Avatar
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    Killing Malfurion just to get Ysera back who had a perfectly serviceable death back in Legion? Hahaha... Man, I can't help but laugh at this point. Just can't be suprised by anything that these writers come up with. Absolutely pathetic.

  12. #232
    Death doesn't mean anything in WoW. Malfurion will go to the Shadowlands and live well. Lol

  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by Hobbidaggy View Post
    I’m sorry OP, nothing against you. (I just don’t want to believe it until I get solid proof) Hopefully this is just a troll post, someone bored and just messing around with people.
    Well I owe you an apology this was properly confirmed today by wowhead. I was really hoping you were a troll

  14. #234
    I just don't see how it serves the story to have Malfurion sacrifice himself to bring back Ysera, it has been indicated that he has become far more powerful that Ysera ever was. He has been More resistant to corruption than anyone else and saved the world more times than her. He also has a better connection with both Azeroth and the dream than her.

    Not to mention unless she becomes some valiant defender of the Night elves how it helps resolve the issues with the writing of night elves and their plight. Seems really rough that the lose their home, Their people and now their strongest defender. Only to bring back a green dragon who never has really done anything and give them a home on an island faraway from their ancestral home and give the horde free access to all their old lands.

    Not to mention Ysera had a great send off, Twice there isn't a reason to bring her back.

    It feels like its simply virtue signalling by the writers to kill off another strong male character to bring in another female one. At this point Im not surprised anymore, as it feels like blizzard won't be happy till they have removed every strong male character and replaced them either with females or "acceptable" male replacements.
    Last edited by angrywithmygod; 2022-08-12 at 03:19 AM.

  15. #235
    I feel WoW has always had issues with killing off interesting characters. Imagine if Vol'jin, Garrosh, Saurfang, Gul'dan, Kael'thas were still alive. The list goes on and on..

    How would've this impacted the Blood Elves?
    What manipulative tricks would Gul'dan be conjuring up?
    What antics is Garrosh getting into over there?

    A lot of what ifs or could've been.. the thing is. I find bizarre is Blizzard doesn't acknowledge how hurtful and impactful it is to the franchise. Yet we ran into Kael and Garrosh into an afterlife expansion. Vol'jin makes a weird cameo in BFA. We get a whole expansion dedicated to time travel to go roll with OG orcs. (Dead in the current timeline) Illidan gets an expansion dedicated to him. All the while the audience laughs at them for making a nonsensical story out of it and still do till this day. How about instead of just killing off characters. To the point where the audience whines about it. Just simply learn to put them on the backburner? The point I was trying to make is they should be very well informed at this point.

    Also the Horde is in shambles now.. so it can show how devastating these choices were in the long run.

    I get the feeling some people want more secondary characters to be developed. This doesn't bother me. I like them delving into other characters. I just don't feel they have to kill off old characters to do this. It's not beneficial to the company. When there is no more well known interesting characters around there will be a lack of interest.

  16. #236
    Problem is the current head writer of the Warcraft novels doesn't like writing horde and doesn't know how to develop new stories for the universe like Knaak did. Id Suggest blizzard to get a good writer on the payroll and put out a trilogy of novels specifically about some horde characters to really flesh them out, while also developing some new story aspects.

  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by Kixxenn View Post
    I feel WoW has always had issues with killing off interesting characters. Imagine if Vol'jin, Garrosh, Saurfang, Gul'dan, Kael'thas were still alive. The list goes on and on..

    How would've this impacted the Blood Elves?
    What manipulative tricks would Gul'dan be conjuring up?
    What antics is Garrosh getting into over there?

    A lot of what ifs or could've been.. the thing is. I find bizarre is Blizzard doesn't acknowledge how hurtful and impactful it is to the franchise. Yet we ran into Kael and Garrosh into an afterlife expansion. Vol'jin makes a weird cameo in BFA. We get a whole expansion dedicated to time travel to go roll with OG orcs. (Dead in the current timeline) Illidan gets an expansion dedicated to him. All the while the audience laughs at them for making a nonsensical story out of it and still do till this day. How about instead of just killing off characters. To the point where the audience whines about it. Just simply learn to put them on the backburner? The point I was trying to make is they should be very well informed at this point.

    Also the Horde is in shambles now.. so it can show how devastating these choices were in the long run.

    I get the feeling some people want more secondary characters to be developed. This doesn't bother me. I like them delving into other characters. I just don't feel they have to kill off old characters to do this. It's not beneficial to the company. When there is no more well known interesting characters around there will be a lack of interest.
    While i definitely agree with the sentiment i feel the need to point out that characters do sometimes have a proper time and way to die. Varian in example was a perfect example of dying in a way that was just right.

    I also think that the old backlash against "merely" a setback from Kael'thas has made them overly wary of not killing characters.
    I would suggest leaving encounters on a more ambiguous note more often; let the defeated boss be crushed by a rockfall in example, just something so that we can reasonably assume it's dead, but that with proper writing its return wouldn't require, say, going to the land of the dead.

    And honestly: We don't need to kill everything we defeat. Maybe just changing the healthbar text to "defeated" rather than "dead" and adding in some in-game retcon about not mutilating corpses so that even common mobs can be made to "survive" on account of us not necessarily having the time to properly kill each and every one of them.
    This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
    Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.

    Furthermore, I consider that Carthage Slam must be destroyed.

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    There's a lot of missed context in that argument, I would say - hinging both on what one labels a "tragedy" and how one defines "building." Referring to the deaths of NPCs, for example, Varian's death led to a lot of new movements within the Alliance, including Anduin's ascension to High King and a strengthening of the bonds between the Alliance leaders heading into BfA and Shadowlands. The major issue for this new revelation in Dragonflight, at least in my opinion, is that the tragedy (the loss of Malfurion to Ardenweald) doesn't really build anything for the Night Elves who are offering the sacrifice, but rather for the Green Dragonflight who gets their Aspect back in the form of Ysera. While I would consider that "building" from a narrative standpoint, or at least rebuilding, it's a net loss for the Kaldorei, who've already lost more than their share, IMO.
    To be honest, Malfurion offering himself is not that surprising (I guess Stormrage boys have a thing for sacrifice), but I lack any development which leads to that moment. He just waltz to Ardenweald and his decision comes out of nowhere.

    If Malfurion followed Tyrande to Shadowlands instead of Shandris, and by doing so learned more about cycle of Life and Death from fae, it would feel way more natural and less forced. They could even connect his sacrifice to infusion of Sister's Tear with kaldorei souls, to give more meaning to this.

    Eventually, I think it is not that bad and we will see Malfurion's return. If he went to Emerald Dream again, it would be basicaly the same. When he comes back, he will possibly be even stronger, after getting some ardenweald powers in the process.

  19. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by angrywithmygod View Post
    Problem is the current head writer of the Warcraft novels doesn't like writing horde and doesn't know how to develop new stories for the universe like Knaak did. Id Suggest blizzard to get a good writer on the payroll and put out a trilogy of novels specifically about some horde characters to really flesh them out, while also developing some new story aspects.
    If we do it Kanack style. It should be a story of an Alliance character. Where he saves pj from the Horde and incidentally be the most incoherent with the Lore of WoW.

    I don't know maybe a Warguen travels back in time and helps Talnaji as a child and saves her life or something XD.

    Oh and don't forget about auto insert and removing pj from the story to put his auto insert.

    __________
    Now more serious. The two short novels before BFA make it clear that they can develop new characters and make an interesting story beyond "Salvador Anduin". That they don't want to do it is another matter.
    Last edited by geco; 2022-08-12 at 12:07 PM.

  20. #240
    You know I'm starting to think Arthas not really playing much of a part at all in Shadowlands was a good thing. This writing kind of surprises me that they didn't.
    *Insert every single ridiculous PC parts detail here that no one cares about*

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