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  1. #41
    Scarab Lord Maljinwo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post

    Bwonsamdi makes far more sinister deals.
    Bwonsamdi at least used his powers, even when diminished to keep his followers out of the maw
    This world don't give us nothing. It be our lot to suffer... and our duty to fight back.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Maljinwo View Post
    It does inflict more pain upon Tyrande and the night elves I think

    I mean, sure, Shadowlands is a mage portal away. But id rather have them focusing on Merithra
    I mean.. who cares man, he didnt realy leave a good impression either last time we met. Malfurion lost its coolness long time ago (if he was ever tbh) legion sealed my opinion on him.

    Cant wait for hes revival quest, oooo Tyrande where are you my LoVe???!!!

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by geco View Post
    Truly. Elune tells us that she sent the Kaldorei to save her.
    So there are two options. Either he let them die on purpose (so they deserve their lives) or the Kaldorei don't go to Shadowland when they die. Thing that in a dialogue between Elune and The Winter Queen seems to be the Cannon.

    The Kaldorei go to the shadowlands, like every other mortal soul, that is the whole point of it. Some of them hang around as undead wisps, but their destination has always been there. The elves were dead either way, Elune wanted to send them per express to Ardenweald and they were snatched on the way.

  4. #44
    That was Xavius for crying out loud!

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Maljinwo View Post
    Bwonsamdi at least used his powers, even when diminished to keep his followers out of the maw
    True but good old bwon, ultimately just doesn't like others to play with his toys.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Magistrate View Post
    I do not dislike Malfurion but he is simply too powerful imo to be just walking around. Him and many others like him need to be knocked out. This is also very in character for him.

    He makes sense because he's basically a demigod. I'm assuming that's on the same level as an aspect almost.
    Yes, Malfurion either stays on the sidelines or acts like an idiot to even the odds because of his amount of power.

    Killing Malfurion is whatever in my opinion. He just wasn't a good character, I'd gladly trade him for Ysera.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Adoxe View Post
    The whole "Blizzard hates Night Elves" crowd is cringe so no point in even taking that into account,
    Honestly this group of players was one of the worst consequences from the burning of Teldrassil.
    change can't wait.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    That was Xavius for crying out loud!
    The problem is Tyrande fell for it.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by rayvio View Post
    hopefully there'll be more to it, explaining why it's so important to get Ysera back instead of replacing her like they did with Malygos and why the same thing couldn't allow say the Twilights Hammer to resurrect Deathwing or Malygos the same way (after all, they too may have been wild seeds after their deaths)
    I don't hate Malfurion, but he has been fairly underwhelming for the last several expansions. He was only able to barely stalemate Sylvanas in Ashenvale and Darkshore, and was defeated by Saurfang throwing an axe, failing to stop the Burning of Teldrassil as an Archdruid. Then he didn't really participate for most of the Battle for Darkshore (even Maiev had a much bigger role), and also didn't really appear in Shadowlands either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Feanoro View Post
    This must be some of that "renewal" Elune offered. Meanwhile the Alliance is sending workers, materials, and the PC to help rebuild the Undercity.

    If you are a Night Elf fan, stop paying these hacks. They hold you in complete and utter contempt.


    @Super Dickmann I say yet again, Shadowlands was a mistake. Death is completely irrelevant now. Even if that wasn't the case, SL was retcons or flat out rewrites galore. It shouldn't surprise anyone that DF will be more of that.
    What's the real difference though? He was asleep in the Emerald Dream until Cataclysm (inactive), but was neutral for that expansion also mostly, working with Horde druids and letting his wife get killed over and over again in raiding parties on Darnassus (mostly unaligned, not directly involved in Alliance military affairs). He didn't do much for Pandaria or Draenor, then got captured by the "Shade" of Xavius and didn't appear to help with Suramar or Argus...and again, he did little during the Fourth War and in Shadowlands.

    Lots of people also feel that Tyrande and Malfurion should move over for new leadership anyway (preferably by Shandris and Jarod, it seems):
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...-and-Malfurion
    Last edited by OwenBurton; 2022-08-10 at 01:02 PM.
    "Always you speak. Never do you listen! You ignore the lessons of Pandaria! You see, there is balance in all things. Wisdom etched in our very fur: Black and white. Darkness and light. When the last emperor hid our land from the rest of the world, he also preserved...our ancient enemy, the mantid. So it is with your Alliance and your Horde. They are not strong despite one another; they are strong BECAUSE of one another. You mistake your greatest strength for weakness. Do you see this?"

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Feanoro View Post
    I say yet again, Shadowlands was a mistake. Death is completely irrelevant now. Even if that wasn't the case, SL was retcons or flat out rewrites galore. It shouldn't surprise anyone that DF will be more of that.
    Death was irrelevant for years, of the main WC3 casualties, the only ones to stay dead without any reappearances or take backsies were Antonidas and Garithos. The broader problem of SL in terms of cosmology and societal reactions though is in this case irrelevant, since rebirth for Ancients/Wild Gods has been a joke since Day 1 and Ardenweald is just the Emerald Dream if it was Blue. The only Wild Gods to actually fully die on-screen are Agamaggan and Ursoc and Ursoc only perma-died in SL. Cenarius, who's death was the reason Grom took the demon blood again and the foundation of orc/night elf relations got brought back unceremoniusly to do nothing much of consequence and then get possessed and fixed again so he can continue at it.

    DF's problem doesn't hinge on SL, it hinges on being Take Backsies: The Expansion, specifically for the demographic @Maljinwo describes. Most everything to come out of it has been trying to patch over either unpopular decisions, like Dragon infertility, Aspect deaths and irrelevance, that ultimately didn't hurt the game and even refocused it away from dragons to the playable races, or currently topical issues, like 'fixing' villain races like centaur and gnolls, which beyond necessitating retcons, which can be good or bad, defeats the purpose of having such races in the first place and narrows the pool of stories told.
    Last edited by Super Dickmann; 2022-08-10 at 12:58 PM.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

    Tinkers will be the next Class confirmed.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    The Kaldorei go to the shadowlands, like every other mortal soul, that is the whole point of it. Some of them hang around as undead wisps, but their destination has always been there. The elves were dead either way, Elune wanted to send them per express to Ardenweald and they were snatched on the way.
    So when Elune says she "sent" them, she means she let them die.
    There is still a huge debt to the Kaldorei from those two sisters.


    Quote Originally Posted by OwenBurton View Post
    I don't hate Malfurion, but he has been fairly underwhelming for the last several expansions. He was only able to barely stalemate Sylvanas in Ashenvale and Darkshore, and was defeated by Saurfang throwing an axe, failing to stop the Burning of Teldrassil as an Archdruid. Then he didn't really participate for most of the Battle for Darkshore (even Maiev had a much bigger role), and also didn't really appear in Shadowlands either.
    Pity. The original plan was for him to fight Nathanos.

    The end result is that the one who did all the work was Maiev. Tyrande and Malfurion were useless.
    Last edited by geco; 2022-08-10 at 12:58 PM.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by geco View Post
    So when Elune says she "sent" them, she means she let them die.
    There is still a huge debt to the Kaldorei from those two sisters.
    No, the elves merely fulfilled their intended purpose, nothing more nothing less. All living mortal things are ultimately meant to enjoy an eternity in the shadowlands, you make it sound like death is a punishment, it is not. Quite the contrary what are a few thousand years compared to infinite ones in the shadowlands?

  12. #52
    Scarab Lord Maljinwo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    I mean.. who cares man, he didnt realy leave a good impression either last time we met. Malfurion lost its coolness long time ago (if he was ever tbh) legion sealed my opinion on him.

    Cant wait for hes revival quest, oooo Tyrande where are you my LoVe???!!!
    That was clearly Xavius taunting Tyrande tho

    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    Where did they show Merithra? And explicitly/ confirm it was her?
    Merithra shows up in the War of the Shifting sands and lastly in BfA, where she assumes the de-facto leadership of the green flight after saving the Emeral Dream from the void

    Again
    This world don't give us nothing. It be our lot to suffer... and our duty to fight back.

  13. #53
    There are so many of Alliance characters awnyway. Besides, what was the relevancy of Malfurion after Cata? He just stood with Tyrande and did nothing, only occasionally saying offensive stuff like "hush wife".

  14. #54
    Wouldn't mind Maiev becoming the leader of the Nelves tbh. OR literally anyone who keeps them the savage race that they are and not let them always bow to humans' bs.

  15. #55
    I expect Ysera to remember that it was an Alliance character who gave his life so that she could live. The Green Dragonflight now has a blood debt towards the Alliance that must be repaid.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    Death was irrelevant for years, of the main WC3 casualties, the only ones to stay dead without any reappearances or take backsies were Antonidas and Garithos. The broader problem of SL in terms of cosmology and societal reactions though is in this case irrelevant, since rebirth for Ancients/Wild Gods has been a joke since Day 1 and Ardenweald is just the Emerald Dream if it was Blue. The only Wild Gods to actually fully die on-screen are Agamaggan and Ursoc and Ursoc only perma-died in SL. Cenarius, who's death was the reason Grom took the demon blood again and the foundation of orc/night elf relations got brought back unceremoniusly to do nothing much of consequence and then get possessed and fixed again so he can continue at it.
    You as usual expand on what I briefly express (in no small part because I just can't enjoy this crap enough to write at length).

    DF's problem doesn't hinge on SL, it hinges on being Take Backsies: The Expansion, specifically for the demographic @Maljinwo describes. Most everything to come out of it has been trying to patch over either unpopular decisions, like Dragon infertility, Aspect deaths and irrelevance, that ultimately didn't hurt the game and even refocused it away from dragons to the playable races, or currently topical issues, like 'fixing' villain races like centaur and gnolls, which beyond necessitating retcons, which can be good or bad, defeats the purpose of having such races in the first place and narrows the pool of stories told.
    I simply mean that, given how much SL screwed things up, expecting a different result from the same writers is folly.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    I expect Ysera to remember that it was an Alliance character who gave his life so that she could live. The Green Dragonflight now has a blood debt towards the Alliance that must be repaid.
    It will be remembered by her blessing the Horde, if it's remembered at all.

  17. #57
    Welp, death continues to mean absolutely nothing in the WoW universe. Nothing new here


  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Skirdus View Post
    Welp, death continues to mean absolutely nothing in the WoW universe. Nothing new here
    Shadowlands made sure of it, it means even less now.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    No, the elves merely fulfilled their intended purpose, nothing more nothing less. All living mortal things are ultimately meant to enjoy an eternity in the shadowlands, you make it sound like death is a punishment, it is not. Quite the contrary what are a few thousand years compared to infinite ones in the shadowlands?
    That doesn't answer what I'm saying

    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    Wouldn't mind Maiev becoming the leader of the Nelves tbh. OR literally anyone who keeps them the savage race that they are and not let them always bow to humans' bs.
    Since they go to the Kaldorei as if they were the bad guys in history, let them at least let us be the bad guys in history.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Feanoro View Post
    You as usual expand on what I briefly express (in no small part because I just can't enjoy this crap enough to write at length).

    I simply mean that, given how much SL screwed things up, expecting a different result from the same writers is folly.
    I expected to be bored by SL and write much less of it, like how I wrote far more in BFA than I did in Legion, but instead it had either interesting ideas with horrible execution or just bizarre choices, not to mention the behind the scenes mess, so it kept my interest. I can say outright that DF is just dull from what I've seen thus far and isn't strange enough to talk about despite that. Their weird picks and ideas they were too inept to properly get into or explore are what made SL stand out. The same writing staff, without the bridge to prior material and being told to make bog standard fantasy complete with world peace and scalies, rotating around the notoriously dull WoW dragons is just a recipe for boredom. I expect to get more out of it a patch or two in when it gets into the retarded time shenanigans.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

    Tinkers will be the next Class confirmed.

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